I want to know why on earth ANY Chiefs fan is defending Eric Fisher. Alex had a pretty good game. Defend that fine. Fisher? GTFO here with that silliness.

People with eyeballs Crank up your TTY machine and call me if you need help.

Geno is where Alex SHOULD have been year 2. Instead Alex was the single worst QB in history year one and a very pedestrian year 2.

Doesn't mean shit if you don't have talent to back it up.

Bull.

Shit.

I gotta say the evidence is not good for Fisher. Good job Clay, you asshole.

I'm curious about this. A lot of posters dismissed Joeckel with little substance to support their stance. I remember saying I could see some areas where Fisher was intriguing but that Joeckel was realistically more likely to succeed in the NFL.

PFF. :rolleyes: A company started by an Englishman who never played football at any level, had never seen a game live when he started the company, and who "hires" any jackass off the street who has enough time to spend hours looking at game tape.

Tell me something, dipshit. When you go in for your yearly Pap smear, do you get it done at your local porn shop? Because hey, they have seen a sloppy pussy on television.

Same here. My preference was Joeckel...

Joeckel was an issue of pride. Everybody told us to draft Joeckel the entire 2012 season while Albert was doing pretty well at LT. It was the whole, "You've got a 2-14 team with a decent LT who just needs a new contract. You have the #1 overall pick. Save the hassle of negotiating a new deal... just draft an OT at #1!"

And that was being said to fans of a 2-14 team.

It made me puke with anger during the season to hear draft dweebs like Kiper suggest that.

It turns out Fisher was even worse, but Joeckel was the poster boy. We had been brainwashed to associate him with all the worst things about the world. His very name turned was a trigger for emotional torture, like Beethoven's 9th was in Clockwork Orange.

****, and you think about B14ckm0n? Remember that troll? I laughed and laughed when the Jaguars drafted Joeckel and that turd got raped by his own dildo. That douchebag would still be trolling these forums if we had drafted Joeckel.

Joeckel was the better player, but **** that shit right now. I still don't give a gnat fart about that. The pick was already ruined when we traded what we did for Alex Smith and basically told Albert, "Here's a tag. You have one year to get your shit moved out."

I've said this over and over. 32 teams would have picked Joeckel or fisher if they had the #1. It's not like he was some huge reach like Tyjack.

Shitty draft is shitty.

The man has no balance. I'm guessing Frankenstien's monster has more dancing ability than this asshole.

Good God; what a HORRIBLE ****ing pick.

I'm finding it really hard to believe that Dorsey signed off on this.

Why don't we just face it and embrace the suck? It's not gonna change...just accept it. Yes i've had a bad day. whatever

If Peyton Manning got injured in 2012, and the Donks went 2-14, would they have drafted one of those tackles?

Franklin would still have 2 years left. Clady had just signed a lucrative extension. Even if they traded Franklin away, they'd still be left with starting either their #1 overall pick or Clady at RT for the long term.

That would just be ****ing idiotic.

We weren't in much more of a position to justify that kind of pick. Only difference is our LT had this stigma of everybody wanting to move him to ****ing guard his entire career just because he played two years of guard in college. The rest of his ****ing football career from high school to pros was primarily at tackle, but "NOOO... HE'S A GUARD!"

We had to carve out a hole in the roster exclusively to justify making the pick of one of those OTs.

When you're 2-14, that's a terrible ****ing decision. Your #1 pick from the very beginning doesn't ****ing improve your team at all.

Hell, that's WORSE than the Tyson Jackson pick.

We moved Franklin to Left Guard and put Chris Clark in at Tackle. Probably a bad example.

Already given my reasons why I don't give a shit about off grades.

Does pff break out how many poor blocks were made during those long ass drives? Poor blocks made due to fatigue tell a much different story than those made when at full speed.

How does pff know what the play design was? What was fishers assignment? Again, several instances in the gifs where Davis seems to pick a different cutback lane. Others where Fisher isn't asked to drive block. Yet more where the blocking was just fine.

How much weight do they put on poor play from teammates forcing extra work on Fisher? How many lower rated plays should have been avoided by the qb getting rid of the ball faster? That shit really matters when we know fishers linemates are terrible and Smith holds on to the ball too long.

I haven't seen anything that changes the story of what I saw . Good enough for a second start, huge progress, seemed to get fatigued during the long drive and never seemed to recover. Other issues with fixable technique. And sprinkled in were several just poor blocking and others where he was a little overpowered.

All this...

It's called moving the uprights. We complained for years about taking safe picks. Now we demand that nfl players be ready right away.

Either left tackle was a stupid ass pick. But people acting like joeckl was a better pick because he was safer is the definition of flip flopping through hindsight.

So you'd be cool with your #1 overall pick playing RT longterm?

If we already had a franchise LT and the guy was a franchise RT...yes. The Broncos have done much, much dumber things on draft day.

Poe was a risky pick.

Ford was a risky pick.

Fisher wasn't a risky pick. He was a stupid pick.

I don't know anything about Joeckel. I refused to watch him play or read his scouting reports. I still don't care. I'm far from a "We should have drafted Joeckel!" guy.

Our team would still be 0-2 right now, and we still would have lost to the Colts last year in the playoffs.

So wouldn't it make far more sense to draft DJ Fluker at #1 overall than Joeckel, Fisher, or Johnson?

As long as a guy turns out to be a solid, productive player, it doesn't matter where he's picked in the long run.

Maybe. It is kind of a crap shoot and it might be better to have guys who can swing from LT to RT when somebody goes down with an injury.

So you were a Chance Warmack guy, then?

Oh, that's right. You don't ever have any opinions. You just pose alternative solutions after the dust has settled.

Don't really care. I don't obsess over it really.

Insanely stupid pick. But comparing him to joeckl... No doubt pick should have been Fisher. If Cp believes otherwise it is a massive flip flop.

How did this guy become the #1 overall pick?

That's some of the worst blocking I've ever seen.

You don't have to obsess over it.

You just have to say every once in awhile, "I think the Chiefs should do _____ because ______."

It's not hard. Try it some time.

If anyone is playing ChiefsPlanet Bingo, we've got our first "Never played football" of the thread here.

Oh, and by the way, the guy who runs that company is a strategist for the New York Giants.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...99781897959096


In 2009, the site came to the attention of the Giants' Mr. Berger, an executive of the team since the early 1980s. As director of information, Mr. Berger is the team's official wonk, entering every play by every NFL team into a database in search of trends and tendencies that might be useful for Giants coaches.

It was while "messing around on Google" that Mr. Berger came across Pro Football Focus, and one statistic in particular struck him: player participation. The site listed the number of times each player in the NFL participated in a play during a game. That is a statistic the NFL tracks and releases only to teams—never to the public.

Doubtful about the accuracy of Mr. Hornsby's data, Mr. Berger checked it against the NFL data set and found Pro Football Focus was nearly perfect. Impressed, Mr. Berger sent Mr. Hornsby a congratulatory note. Mr. Hornsby was so surprised he thought one of his friends had pulled a prank on him.

Today, the site provides customized data to five NFL teams, Mr. Hornsby says, as well as to sports agents seeking to bolster their players' arguments for fat paychecks. Mr. Hornsby won't say which teams or agents are paying for his data. But he says revenue is now great enough that he employs four analysts to help him study game footage, and 13 others to count how many downs each NFL athlete plays per game. He says he doesn't provide data to the Patriots.


The Giants are a nonpaying user of the site. That relationship deepened last August when Mr. Hornsby requested a visit with Mr. Berger. The timing could hardly have been worse: With the preseason shortened by a labor dispute, August was busier than usual for Mr. Berger. But he agreed to meet with Mr. Hornsby, blocking out a full hour on his calendar.

The meeting lasted seven hours. Stunned at the material Mr. Hornsby produced from his laptop, Mr. Berger says he was especially intrigued by data showing where individual players most often line up on the field, and how they perform against certain formations and opponents.

"It was really impressive," says Mr. Berger, calling Mr. Hornsby the first outsider ever to supply usable data to the Giants.

What most amazes Mr. Berger is that Mr. Hornsby gathers his data using the television footage available to everyone. That footage is highly limited compared with the proprietary film—known as All 22—that the NFL gathers at each game and makes available only to team officials.

Shitty draft with no clear cut potential superstar playmakers
High measurables
Tackle is a high value position

I bet Chuck-E-Cheese writes a nice menu too.

Holy shit. You mean they can actually count who is on the field and for how many plays? NO ****ING WAY!!! They could also tell you where they lined up?AMAZING!!!!

We should trust their analysis of the intricacies of the game. That would be like letting an eighth grader design a spacecraft because he was able to pass Algebra.

Wow some idiot in a front office was shocked by the data available online...sounds like a moneyball part 2. Lame.

Clay deserves his own shrine outside of Arrowhead.

TYBasedClay.

He destroyed the top talent at the Senior Bowl and made the combine his bitch. The dude is a stud

They used to confess to a 20% error rate (what it actually was, nobody knows), on things other than the counting work. That page has either been moved, or removed, and has been missing for years. The FAQ now claims a 99% accuracy rate on participation (snap count), but doesn't offer any error rate for grading, likely because even they know that their formula work is complete horse shit. It's a shit site, and when you see someone quoting it for anything but the basics like snaps taken, you know that they're either football illiterate, or lazy.

Do you believe Jamaal Charles was one of the top 100 players in the NFL in 2012? PFF doesn't.

That's the site you're defending.

I think Jamaal Charles gave up too many QB hurries that year

You have to be the most consistent troll of all time.

http://cupofzup.com/wp-content/uploa...Im-not-mad.gif

I could watch Von do this all day.

http://i.imgur.com/CKl63oH.gif

Jesus, looked like Knile thought he was trying to block a middle schooler there.

LMAO :facepalm:

Who is #34?

Me too.

http://cdn29.elitedaily.com/wp-conte...Molly-High.jpg

Just checking in, he still sucks?

Yeah? Ok cool.

That Davis block was bullshit. That right there is why he wont get to be a every day back in this league ever. This is not college you have to got to block in the NFL.

Might it be possible that PFF excels at some things and not others? I've been critical of aspects their methods, but to throw the baby out with the bathwater, especially when supported by the above listed gifs is intellectually lazy at best.

So let me ask you this: having seen those gifs, do you believe that Fisher played well?

Says the guy who found nothing wrong with what Fisher did in the second gif.

That "shitty draft" included Keenan Allen, Tyrann Mathieu, Sheldon Richardson, Star Lotulelei, Larry Warford, Justin Pugh, Desmond Trufant, and Kiko Alonso, among others. Just because the first few picks were horrible does not mean the whole draft sucked.

It's all some of these fans have to cling to. Be nice and let them have it.

Tyson Jackson? Well 2009 was an awful draft at the top. We're among the lucky ones!

Dexter McCluster? Well just look at who was available at the top of the 2nd round and tell me which player that went 10 picks after McCluster we were supposed to draft!

Eric Fisher? TEH WURST DRAFT OF TEH CENTURY!!!!!1111 OH NOEZ!!!!!!!1111

Geno at 1.1? This is why you'll never be a GM, or scout, or even waterboy. Because you are a ****ing moron.

that 2010 draft in the 2nd and 3rd rounds waa pretty good, we could have built a really good core instead of pissing it away on two midgets, an injury prone TE and a RG we replaced with a now 6th round rookie that plays with stone feet

Yeah, but that might require our GM to actually know who or what the talent is instead of pissing it away on shit****s like McCluster.

If you talk to fans who defend the McCluster pick then and now, they say stuff like, "Some of you wanted Jimmy Clausen, Terrence Cody, and Sergio Kindle! Bullet dodged, I'd say!"

Never mind that we could have had TJ Ward, Rob Gronkowski, Zane Beadles, or Daryl Washington. With the exception of Washington, we drafted all three of those positions eventually in that draft anyway (Lewis, Moeaki, Asamoah).

Dorsey would have screwed it up too hence the point of this thread. Chiefs just have some bad FO luck in the post King Carl era.

want your qb to do a consistent good job? win at the line... chiefs are stuck with nobodies at the line

haha, Gochiefs got attacked on facebook for saying our QB and LT suck! i might have got banned myself, because i cant find it anymore. See what i get for stucking up for CLay! lol

He has a very childish need to say "I told you so", even when he has to BS to do it.

The first one said the same thing. It's all about shock value, that's important to clay

Saw a study on internet commenting that negative attention to trolls statistically increases their posting and the vehemence, more so than praising quality posters.

Towards the end of his time Carl had lost it and needed to go.

But when you consider the turds to come after Carl comes out smelling like a scented candle...

Science...

Around here, He is not alone in this area.

Most are just less vocal about it.

So like the nightly news, 25 min of bad with the last 30 seconds of good. people like trainwrecks or stuff that causes drama. Why, i have no idea.

Well,,,,,,, d'uh

dr;clay

All you people labeling Fisher a bust with the limited experience he has is plain stupid at this stage in his career. Being hung up on where he was picked is also plain stupid. There was nobody worth the first pick so they got what they needed and the media even agreed so don't tell me it was Dorsey just fugging up. You build with youth not over paying for older players like Albert. Fisher is on year two and fans expect dominance?

All of you need to get back to reality.

Pretty much agree.. and that's from someone who doesn't like seeing his "boo" taking hits from Fisher's failed blocks. There is a lot of suck to Fisher's game right now.. but that was also said about other OTs that eventually developed into good players. There's plenty of time for Fisher to win people over... at least the people that are later willing to admit that they prematurely condemned him.

It's one thing to cherry pick 4-5 bad plays (like Clay did with Brandon Albert, and pretty much said he sucked because of it, but I digress) but it's a bit different when there's 20+ plays to gif up.

Bad form Fisher.

I love the argument that there was nobody worth the #1 pick so therefor saying drafting Fisher was a bad idea is stupid!

So nobody was worth the pick, including Mr. Fisher, which makes it a perfectly acceptable time to use that pick on a position that doesn't need help.

Some of you act like the Chiefs are the only team to ever take a T 1.1, and do it every year.

No one should dispute that. Fisher had a real bad game. I do understand where the other side is coming from.. as.. when watching live and forgiving a play or two.. it didn't seem like he had that bad a day. If watching again and focusing on him? No.. real bad day. None of the OL had a good day.

The OTs were lousy.. Fulton and his penalties at critical times are brutal. McGlynn should never be a starting OL.

They all did a better job in week 2 than 1.. though Fisher was equally bad.

:shake: .. just ****ing ugly.

How many teams did it with already good tackles and major holes at playmaking positions?

Do you know what a genetic fallacy is?

Your criticism of PFF is a genetic fallacy. You have never, once, explained what is inaccurate or wrong about it. You just insult the people behind the site. It's akin to saying 'you're wrong because you're stupid'.

Most people realized we'd keep either Albert or Bowe. Would you have rather let Bowe go?

Maybe we could have drafted Tavon Austin. He's a playmaker drafted in the top 10 that year that's setting the league on fire!
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If my QB is going to be Alex Smith? Ummmm, hell yes I would have rather let Bowe go. Hell, probably could have gotten a pretty good pick for Bowe since before Alex became his QB people were talking about him being a top 10-15 WR in the league.

And I've already said I would have taken Cordarrelle Patterson, not Tavon Austin.

In retrospect?

I'd have kept Albert.

New HC/GM. Overpaid for a QB. Aging existing LT, money to be saved.

New leadership wants their own guys.

It's not brain surgery.

I didn't want a LT at 1.1, but given the circumstances, I think pretty much any team would have done the same.