Well at least you didn't call it a theory. I really like Scott Free even though I think he hates me.

I like to keep an open mind.

No hate at all, but what does chap my ass and crack me the hell up at the same time, is when people who claim to love science want to sit here and call a man like Boyd Bushman, senior research scientist for Lockheed Martin skunkworks, a "wacko".

Guys like him work feverishly every single day on science that some of you, very arrogantly, want to call "wacko" or even say doesn't even exist at all as a research field, i dunno... guess i'll take one of our nations top scientists word, over a few Chiefsplanet know it alls.

How about ufo's, its ever so popular to nail anyone mentioning the subject to the wall around here... well, watch the last ten minutes of that interview as Boyd tells the camera that one of his dearest friends shot a ufo down over New Mexico.

Is he just making it up? yep, he's gotta be, why WOULDNT such an accomplished man lie about such a fantastic thing?

Dude, no offense, but the video is BS. He's not talking about anything that isn't known. The problem is that it's not feasible in the slightest in actual application. He's claiming we had alien reverse-engineered (yet) nuclear powered flying saucers in 1969. He claims that Lazar's claims were all true, which has been debunked to hell and back. He hints around the Hutchinson Effect, which is just bad physics. Explained: http://www.skepdic.com/hutchisonhoax.html

Just because he once worked for a reputable firm, that doesn't mean he's incapable of being full of shit. If you look into some of his claims, you see quite a bit of ridiculous bullshit.

Someday in the future, we will have the capability to easily overcome gravity with negligible energy requirements. But it's absurd to think that we've already secretly developed these technologies and kept them hidden from the public, and nobody else has managed to figure it out. It just doesn't work that way.

I want nothing more than for other life to be discovered in the universe, and for use to travel the stars. One day both will happen. But there is zero proof that it's happened yet, despite the crazy number of people who've been actively seeking it for over hundreds of years.

There are two problems with this argument:

1) It is basically an appeal to authority which is a basic logical fallacy taught in a freshman level class and not how science operates. Science operates on evidence. Bring your evidence present it in front of the community and your argumment with stand or fall on its merits.

2) As far as authorities go, he isn't a particularly strong one. His claim to fame appears to be as one of the a patent holders on the stinger missile. A fine accomplishment but doesn't really make him an expert on UFOs and such. He is a technologist, but not really a scientist. I couldn't find any scientific publications in the peer reviewed literature by him.

In summary, he has not presented sufficient evidence to enter his claim as part of the scientific discourse.

To be a scientist is to keep one's mind 100% open, while at the same time remaining 100% skeptical about new claims outside the known body of knowledge. The skeptical part pertains to the observations made by the scientist him/herself.

100% open-minded + 100% skeptic = scientist

Here's the perfect test for that. Ask other currently established scientists to review Bushman's claims. That's the key to science, peer review of the claims and agreement of the evidence. Credentials don't equate to truth. It's a start, but no way in hell do you take someone's word simply on their credentials. If there is not a scientific consensus of the claims, it's very likely bullshit. It's that simple.

I'm skeptical of your numbers since they add up to 200%. But I'm willing to consider your argument.

You could be a scientist, or even a market researcher.

I have lotus plants in my water garden and the leaves get huge in the summer. Conveniently the size of dinner plates. It really is amazing how the water beads on them and rolls off without a trace. I guess this means I don't need to wash plates anymore. Assuming the natural leaf is safe to eat off of course.

This is a horse conch... let the jokes commence...

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/9186/dawo.jpg

The Florida horse conch (Triplofusus giganteus) is one of the largest univalve gastropods in the entire world. Its shell can get up to 24 inches (60 cm) long and is found on the Atlantic coast of North America, ranging from North Carolina down to the Gulf of Mexico. They feed on other gastropods and can even be cannibalistic. Despite the shape of the shell (and the common name), this isn’t a true conch because it isn’t in the Strombidae family.

Everyone had a favorite animal growing up...mine was the Florida horse conch.

This is the best thread in CP. Keep it up, guys.

Can we discover a food additive that when digested doesn't cause shit to stick to your ass and cause dingleberries??

liquid diet

transhumanism? ABSOLUTELY

yeeeeeah. :drool:

great rebuttal.

you'll see it again..you've been warned.

sorry, it feels like I lose 30 IQ points every time I read one of your responses when it relates to science. believe whatever it is you want to believe, but your stances on science are rather... a sad indictment on the school systems of the USA.

that's all you've got? self aggrandizement? shocking.

Ok, i'm going to post this and i will no longer sully this thread with any more "nonsense"... i'm going to introduce you to Colm Kelleher, a legitimate credentialed scientist with 38 peer reviewed papers.

He at one time headed up the scientific research team at the National Institute for Discovery Sciences, an arm of Bigelow Aerospace, one of the most successful aerospace firms in the nation. Much of their work centered around the notorious Skinwalker Ranch and surrounding areas in Utah, home to this day of a dizzying array of paranormal phenomena.

Everything from animal mutilations to various aerial phenomena, disembodied voices, huge, unrecognizable creatures emerging from glowing portals in the ground, human guard and guard dog deaths and injuries, on and on it goes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colm_Kelleher

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationa...covery_Science

Dr. Kelleher either witnessed or was nearby when all of the above things manifested themselves, he has never made any bones about it, in fact, he wrote a book with 12+ time Emmy winning journalist George Knapp about the experiences his team had. For instance, he personally, along with others watched the aforementioned huge, hairy creature emerge from a glowing hole in the ground. Feeling quite threatened, and wanting evidence, they allowed a big game hunter to fire on this creature several times with a high powered rifle... yet no blood was ever found and the creatures tracks simply vanished in an open field.

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There are three more of these, but for the sake of brevity of included the last three, at any rate, everything I've said this man has seen and done, he has seen and done... its all in the book, which i've read.

Now, before you ask "wheres the peer reviewed evidence/paper?"... his official explanation is that the unusual nature of all these things made it difficult to put that information together for scientific study. My guess is that Bigelow and the government aren't exactly keen on this info getting out into the mainstream, because there would be an uproar.

But if you as a skeptic are going to be honest about this, you really have to ask yourself... "why would all of these highly respected men, a titan of aerospace, a world class scientist and a multiple award winning journalist, be so BOLD in freely admitting to what they saw and firmly believe to be true. WHY would they risk their hard earned names and reputations on something so out there like this, if they weren't ABSOLUTELY sure they stood on firm ground?"

The bottom line is that our government and other top scientists are deeply involved in scientific research that mainstream scientists either don't WANT to know about because it doesn't fit their preconceived theories, or they don't WANT to talk about it for fear of ridicule from the mainstream community.

There, i've had my final say on the matter, i have little doubt that most of you wont budge an inch on things of this nature and that's too bad for you, you're missing out on an incredibly exciting time for science.

But hopefully, this will open a few eyes for those who are on the fence about issues like this.

Knowledge Is Power

Fixed...

oh, there's a healthy dose of facepalms thrown in as well.

Its the UK, but still... here is Professor Lord David Alton, Peer of the House of Lords, pay particular attention from the 15 minute mark forward.,..

https://archive.org/details/LordDavi...anLife_HumanDi

same crap, different post.

Leave this thread alone with bullshit!!! Please

shut up, n00b.

There are plenty of very smart people who simply refuse to even try to wrap their heads around the fact that governments around the world have been experimenting with it for yeeears in the shadows.

Its outlandish, it strains a normal persons credulity to the breaking point, its SCARY... but it doesn't mean there isn't the curiosity, money, lack of scientific morals and want to, out there.

Amen.

anti-christ!

how dare you facepalm the words of an imaginary friend in the sky?

This thread is about science.

I agree. I love this thread and am going to delete my post because I don't want to add to the bullshit.

And science you get.

BTW, we're done here ChiefsNow, back to your regularly scheduled program of "If Neil Tyson Didn't Say It, Its Bullshit"

My uncle is Tom Miller, he has had the entire insides of cattle removed from a single hole as big as a softball.



http://www.chieftain.com/csp/mediapo...YPE=image/jpeg

OK, let's take a critical look at this. There are some really fantastical claims here. And science says that the more fantastical the claims, the the more evidence is needed for acceptance. Being a scientist, Kelleher knows the importance of thorough documentation and evidence. So where's the documentation and evidence? They bought this ranch for the specific purpose of investigating these paranormal things. Why would they not bring along cameras to film the big hairy glowing eyed beasts that were coming out of inter-dimensional portals in the ground? They say the tracks disappeared from the ground as well, eliminating that evidence. A physical displacement of soil just uncompressed itself?

I've looked at all the pictures and such that they have available, and it's your classic blurry stuff that could be interpreted as anything.

You make the observation yourself that there isn't any peer-reviewed evidence. There's a perfectly logical reason for why it would be difficult to put that information together. Because again, the more crazy the claims, the better the evidence has to be to convince the scientific community. I know it's popular to think that the government would suppress info. But that's infinitely more difficult when the government isn't the one conducting it. The government certainly has projects that nobody knows about. But that's because they can tightly control their own experiments. They don't have that control over independent science establishments.

Regarding why they might lie? That probably has a lot to do with the fact that they sold a book about it.

Another established scientists named Frank Salisbury investigated the book's claims a bit, and here's what he found:

The brother of the man that owned the Skinwalker Ranch before it was bought by the research team, as well as neighbors, said they'd never seen anything paranormal in the previous 60 years.

Again, without any actual evidence, this is simply a bunch of wild interesting claims. But it doesn't matter who makes the claims if there's still no evidence. And the fact that the intent was to write a book makes it even more questionable. If there really were insane things happening here like creatures crawling through portals, UFOs, killings, etc. Then show us the evidence. Show us other scientists in the field who agree with the evidence. Show us some consensus of it. I agree the guy is a very successful individual with participation in lots of legit stuff. But everything regarding the Skinwalker Ranch stuff is about as questionable as it gets. In the end, the claims sound really cool, but the evidence still isn't there and reputation doesn't make up for that.

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:shrug: To be honest, I don't know? I just talked to him at Thanksgiving and he said they keep track of the cattle and he didn't think what happened was natural. He's a third generation cattle rancher and this just started happening in 2000. I'm not a cattle rancher and I wouldn't know either way.

Within the first five sentences it became clear you didn't listen to the audio... they DID have multiple cameras, they had cameras WATCHING the OTHER cameras that were perched atop telephone poles, with pvc pipe carrying the wires to the top of those cameras... if you'd listened, he tells you that the cameras WATCHING the other cameras go blank for unknown reasons and that when they went out to check them, they're found COMPLETELY destroyed.

Wires ripped from the camera base, pvc pipe carrying the wires along the pole shredded... destroyed, all while they TRIED to watch.

Tracks of a creature? you cant track something when the tracks of what you're tracking disappear in open ground.

Camera footage of supernatural creatures, pictures of anything besides cattle mutiliations and balls of light... do you REALLY think the government or Bigelow wants that to get out?

They might as well just tell the dumbass public that DEMONS AND ALIENS ARE HERE! - RUUUN!... of COURSE they aren't divulging exacting details, except to the appropriate government sources... do you really think Bigelow would be such a favorite of our government if he were some kind of radical who wants to give it all away to the PUBLIC?

Neighbors of the ranch? theres a Mr. Garcia who owns an adjacent ranch who regularly talks to journalists and seekers, he readily confirms strange goings on... not weirdos stalking the place, but orbs, cattle mutilations etc.

Fish, i firmly believe you to be a very sharp guy... but you. are. kidding. yourself about things you cant or don't want to understand... go read Kelleher and Knapps book, please just do it, then get back to me.

LMAO i mean, good. grief. LMAO

Would Bob Bigelow be a favorite of our government, a top dog in national aeronautics, if he were out there supporting kook science?... get ****ing REAL.

Oh, and he did mention he has lost upwards of 60 grand. With that kind of money involved, I'm pretty sure he keeps a close eye, as in looks for the missing cattle before the 2, 3 or 4 day's that it would take for that kind of decomposer. Again, I don't know but the guy is pretty smart with his money, that and neighbors with the same kind of loss dosent add up.

Yeah, because wild animals always remove the lips in such a neat, straight line... and they ALWAYS cauterize the wounds they make, yepper.

You're either a part of it, or not as smart as you seem, Fish.

I watched it. I didn't believe it. There's just no evidence. I understand that they have an excuse. But in the end, excuses don't eliminate the need for proof. They could give whatever excuse they wanted, but there's no evidence.

No evidence.

If they really actually had evidence, there's nothing the US government could do. The government is a bumbling shitstorm of stupid. They don't have the control. If someone seriously had proof of something that wild, it wouldn't be hard to get it out.

For the last time, I don't put much validity to somebody's stories when there's no data to confirm it. No matter who they are. If it's true, the evidence will come out. There have been claims of paranormal for thousands of years. By men ranging from peasant to king. Anything is possible. But without evidence, it can't progress further than that, and it's certainly not science.

This thread is full of amazing and borderline impossible things. So I fully acknowledge that anything is possible. But I cannot believe without any proof, no matter how awesome it would be if it were true.

Dude, these aren't my requirements for belief. These are the requirements of the scientific community. Of which I'm a complete bystander. I don't know what else to tell you. I didn't make the rules.

First off, it IS science, proclaimed and written by real scientists, not only real but GOVERNMENT FUNDED scientists who're hooked into the government like few others before them.

Among other names associated with, interested in and have visited the ranch multiple times... Dr. Jacques Vallee, Hal Putoff, Col. John Alexander.

If those men beyond the ones i've mentioned aren't enough to lend validity to the subject, if you DEMAND irrefuteable physical/pictorial proof then you are blind to just how deep and incredibly secretive our government can be... the "bomb", JFK, RFK?... they aren't SHIT compared to the compartmentalized apparatus they have around this.

"This bumble**** government couldn't hide it"... dear Father, they hid an underground CITY beneath Chicago during the a-bomb experiments, in the 40's! you really think something like this is BEYOND this countries ability to hide?

Swear on my Grandpa i'm done here, if you haven't bought a single thing i simply don't give a damn, too bad you're so locked into a comfortable worldview, where the US gov. is dumb as hell and life beyond our understanding is some kind of late night movie... still admire your persistence but, well... bye.

Dude. I mean think about this for a second. Animals appearing out of wormholes that eat cameras and leave no footsteps because they disappear? Seriously the Scientologists are snickering at that one. Nothing is impossible but the UFO stories and zombies are above this on the believability curve.

Go ask some random working scientists what they think about the possibility of hairy beasts with glowing eyes emerging from inter-dimensional portals in the Utah countryside and how scientific that work is, and see how many refrain from laughing at you.

I didn't create the scientific standards. If a few people's alleged testimonies are enough for you to believe, then that's great. But it will never suffice for science in the eyes of the scientific majority. You act like the high standards and requirements for acceptance are my doing. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/2963/nnhm.jpg

Anti-aging compound: http://bit.ly/J7CTQ1
Galaxy arms: http://bit.ly/18GPrJM
Crocodiles: http://bit.ly/1fz4YtZ
Neanderthal genome: http://bit.ly/1a2cgCJ
Flowering plants: http://bit.ly/J7CUn0
Hand bone: http://bit.ly/1bZHoWG
Water on Mars: http://bit.ly/1bbkVSI
Algae to oil: http://bit.ly/1icCpXo

Happy birthday, Johannes Kepler!

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/3567/lujb.jpg

Kepler was born on this day in 1571. He was a German mathematician and astronomer who is most well known for his three laws of planetary motion, the first of which states that the planets orbit around the sun in ellipses. Though he was not the first to assert the heliocentric theory, he was able to determine information about the orbits mathematically based on the planet’s distance from the sun. Kepler is regarded as one of the most important astronomers of the 17th century.

This thread has been shit for the last 2 pages. Wonder who/what caused it....

Looked up those people and they don't do ANYTHING to help your cause.

FFS, Hal Putoff who's probably the most valid person out of the 3 is a scientologist and claims to have ESP!

Guess what? no one gives a damn... but i hear the big titties thread needs customers.

Christian

Nothing wrong with that. It helped in those days for scientists to be loyal to the church. He saw his peer Galileo thrown in prison by the church for making bold scientific claims.

Jacques Vallee?... dude you're right, i was just joshin ya.

a) Masters in astrophysics
b) part of the team that made the first detailed map of Mars
c) computer networking leader who in essence helped develop the internet
d) basis for the idealized character of lead scientist in Steven Spielbergs - Close Encounters of the Third Kind
e) highly respected consultant for the US government on these matters

In other words... a hack, a kook... if HE is interested in it, run far far away.

Gosh, you got me.

of course there isn't..that "problem" only surfaced recently.

Dude even HE admits that he's pretty far gone in the UFO community. He calls himself a heretic among heretics.

No one is saying that he isn't smart. There are a bunch of smart people who have stupid/wild/crazy beliefs.

So genius level peoples deep, longstanding interest in misunderstood subjects equals - meh, every crazy smart guy is inexorably drawn to some bullshit fringe information, provided to him by the highest levels of world government?

I give up... you win, Fish wins, i really don't care, have fun and Happy New Year.

Even accepting the possibility of extra terrestrial life, to believe that it has anything to do with us on earth is akin to positing that there was a specific grain of dust from the moon that was directly and provably responsible for Mount Everest.

To sum up so many of these cases... no blood on the ground anywhere, no to little blood in the cavity or veins, each cut made with surgical precision, an extreme level of skill involved, each cut often cauterized shut... lips, anus, udders, reproductive organs, eyes, tongue, ears, liver, heart... all removed without a trace of blood on the ground around it, many incisions burned shut.

No trace of foot or vehicle tracks, as if it came from out of nowhere... in most cases natural predators wont even touch the carcass. No bite or claw marks, no teeth marks on the bones, fore and aft legs broken into pieces but no bite or claw marks.

Sweet mercy, if some of you would just look into it on your own... you want evidence, its out there, you just have to be WILLING to see it.

Dammit, i SWEAR i'm trying to quit this thread... stop arguing and look into the facts o:-)

We're the most highly cognisant creatures on the planet that we know of... i have NO doubt that whatever is going on is interested in the other fauna, but people are the rulers and focus of subject at this point.

Alright, this is IT... pave your own path folks, if i post here again neg me into a red so deep it becomes deep maroon.

You REALLY don't understand the whole appealing to authority thing, do you?

Pro Tip: IT'S A FALLACY. It is NOT an argument that will ever convince anyone of anything (with the obvious exception of people who never bother to think for themselves anyway).

If you could point to a single shred of scientific evidence supporting the outrageous claims, that would be different. But offering up excuses and lame "explanations" for the lack of evidence isn't evidence.

Will do, because we know you will continue to pollute this thread. You can't help yourself.

This thread went from A+ to ****in suck real quick.

Let me say what is easy to agree with Boyd Bushman. "Nature does not talk in English." Nor Hebrew either,

But I picked up my copy of Gravitation by Misner, Thorne and Wheeler and turn to paged 14. "Other perturbaions had to be and were guarded against. 1) a bit of iron on the torsion balance as big as 10 raised to minus 3 cm n a side would have contributed, in EARTH"S magnetic field, a torgue a hundred times greater than the measured torque." This is in relation to precisely doing Galileo experiment measuring gravity fields. The Bushman demonstrations are not of Gravity fields being changed by Magnetism or Electromagnetism. They are all part of Electromagnetic Field Theory from Maxwell. Those fields don't negate gravity, they are additive or subtractive of the EFFECT of gravity. The third law of Newton is not universal. There is not a force equal and opposite always. Right Hand rule of Electromagnetism or Right Hand rule of spinning Angular Momentum from say a bicycle wheel or gyroscope. Bushman simply demonstrated the earth's magnetic field effect on falling objects with their own magnetic fields. The experiment from Gravitation is good to 10 to the minus 12 that the gravitational field itself does not differentiate between falling objects of diverse mass. Add some other field and yeah you can have a resultant effect that changes the movement.

The fact you can put a balloon with static forces on a ceiling, or suspend two magnets doesn't produce anti gravity. Anymore than bournoulli's fluid laws which govern airplane flight over wings.

As far as Atomic Airplanes, that is well known but flight part is based on aeronautics.

By the way Feynmann owned the patents on Atomic powered submarines and airplanes. From his time working on the Manhattan Project.

Waaaah. n00b.

did you know that in the Bible it said to circumcise on the 8th day? know why??

I could give a **** about fairy tales. This thread is about science.

ITT: People who believe the Earth is 6000 years old lecturing people with advanced degrees in science about science.

how old is the Earth...YAWN. man? absolutuely.

baby boy's immune sysytem wasn't ready to handle it until the 8th day.

Observe: when Moses melted down the golden calf and ground it into dust to make the Isrealites drink it..it turned RED...science recently caught up to this fact.

:spock:

WTF? I thought this was a science geek thread?

My son is researching something for school along these lines. If we could stop even for a millisecond a proton's path, if thats even possible, the applications would be huge.

The possiblitiy to study other electrochemical systems with heterogeneous electrodes.
http://prl.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v111/i16/e168301
Imaging the Proton Concentration and Mapping the Spatial Distribution of the Electric Field of Catalytic Micropumps

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Observe: Book of Job said that Oceans have fresh water springs...science caught up to this fact in 1920.

Observe: the book of Job said light is a particle and has mass, science caught up to this fact in 1932.

How sad is it that my "your mom" jokes directed at Fish represent the high water mark of this thread?

Why are Bible-beaters trolling this thread?

This thread isn't trying to debunk god.

Wait, what?

I'm a scientist and have found myself enjoying the fact that a thread like this even exists, but WTF has happened over the last few pages? Get this train back on the tracks, folks. Do it in the name of science.

I'll help: Here's an interesting article on Positron Dynamics, a new company attempting to make antimatter a "workable" energy source. Controlled positron-electron annihilation could possibly pave the way for fusion catalysis. Intriguing possibilities abound.