I don't think Hamm is anything at all like Don Draper. Draper is a man with gravitas and I think it's a credit to Hamm that he can pull that off, given that he isn't really that guy. Trouble is there aren't many shows or movies, at least not blockbusters that call for that type of quiet magnitude. Hamm has shown he can do comedy but I don't think that's what people want from him. I think he'd fit in nicely to the type of stuff Ed Harris or William Hurt usually do. Also, he'd make a fine Jack Ryan IMO.

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While I won't disagree with your characterization of him, I've never seen anyone other than John Hamm in everything he's done. While it's true that the Don Draper character is certainly much "weightier" than his comedy or other dramatic roles, I just can't get past the idea that it's John Hamm.

I've never seen him "disappear" into a character like all great actors do.

Huh. When I look at Draper I don't see Hamm at all. I think he dominates every scene he's in that doesn't include Sterling.

Yeah, I had the same problem with "The Town", "Million Dollar Arm" and especially "Bridesmaids".

His delivery and facial expressions just don't change, IMO. His voice is always the same, as are his speech patterns. While I think he's great as Don Draper, I just haven't been able to shake Don Draper from any of his other performances.

He completely disappeared into Don Draper. The fact that you think that is who Jon Hamm is is evidence of how good he is with that character.

Ironically, combined with his looks, that is the trait of MOVIE STARS.

Tom Cruise is always Tom Cruise. Will Ferrell is always Will Ferrell. RDJ is always RDJ. Bruce Willis is always Bruce Willis. And all of them have bombs at least as bad is Hamm has on their resume. In various ways they also have as bad or much worse bad behavior on there.

I suspect that you showed your hand when you characterized a roughing up that occurred a quarter century ago and for which much of the serious charged were dropped into something more akin to a CIA black site enhanced interrogator of unspoken, possibly recent, vintage.

First off, John Hamm is not a "Movie Star" and there's nothing to indicate that he could carry a film on his own, regardless of the Disney flop.

Secondly, there's a big difference between being a "Movie Star" or even a "TV Star" and being a great actor. For example, Tom Selleck is a TV star but he's neither a Movie Star or great actor.

My comments have been directed at Hamm's ability to act, not to discredit him as a TV star.

Yeah, I just don't see it that way. I think that Don Draper is a great character but I just don't see any type of huge departure when I see Hamm in other roles.

One distinction - every character that Hamm plays outside of Don Draper could be just as easily played by Craig Kilborn.

Don Draper couldn't be.

I know, it's a lousy way to actually explain the difference in Hamm the actor and Hamm as Don Draper, but it's the best real world example I can come up with. Kilborn had no real acting career to speak of but he played that preening, pretty boy wise-ass to great effect. It's who he was on the Daily Show, it's who he was on Sportscenter, it's who he was on his talk show and his bit parts.

That tends to be the roles that Hamm's getting and ultimately, Kilborn can do all those. He does not, however, have the gravitas to pull off Draper.

I don't think Hamm's a particularly skilled actor or a legitimate possibility as a movie star. There's just not much of a role for a 'heavy' in todays cinema and I think that's where he ultimately fits. But being versatile isn't the same as having a perfect 'character' for your personality. He's not a versatile actor, but he can play that brooding heavy as well as anyone out there, IMO. In baseball parlance, he's not a 5-tool superstar but he may be a 30 HR slugger with holes in his swing.

If he could get his hands on a role like Tom Hanks had in Road to Perdition, I think he could be outstanding in it. Maybe something like Phoenix's role in The Master. I feel like he could pull off a couple of Bale's easier jobs, but maybe not.

Maybe you're right - maybe he can't carry a film and I'm sure people smarter than I have not given him a chance to carry a good one for that precise reason; the scouting report is out there, so to speak. I just feel like he's not quite as one-trick as you think he is and that perhaps he just hasn't had the right role yet.

This may be very true. The problem for him is that given his track record, producers of big budget movies won't be willing to give him a chance because it's far more likely than not that they'll lose money.

His best bet would be to find a great indie script that could really showcase his talent. Or, continue to mine the same territory and be happy that he's actually working and earning a living.

At the end of the day, that's all anyone in Hollywood really wants (me included).

I'm currently on season 4 of Mad Men and just saw clips from tonight's episode. I am SHOCKED that Peter and Trudy are still married.

a KC BORN CRAIG KILBORN REFERENCE! JUMANJI

Oh man, that was a REAL THING? Hahahahaha.

This whole season feels like an epilogue. I'm not even sure why it was made, artistically speaking.

Eh, one last spin with the gang I s'pose.

My understanding was that Wiener burned his 'planned' ending last year and that AMC's decision to split the season and add more time in kinda messed everything up.

So to an extent, there is no reason it was made from a purely artistic standpoing - Wiener appeared to have told the story he wanted to tell. And really, Bert's death and the acquisition by McCann as last season's finale really would have been a perfect wrapup to the series.

This appears to be easy money for Wiener and yes, something of an epilogue. Hell, you could almost even call it fan-service for a guy that's almost as opposed to it as George Martin.

I'm on board to the end. I'm finding it fascinating that, while we spent so much time watching Don unravel from his own hangups, he's now unraveling through the world moving on. And how much it looks like success despite he discomfort. All of the Mad Men 'tropes' are similarly getting unraveled. The 'pitch that saves the day' falls on deaf ears, then gets pre-empted.

Me and the wife are waiting for the end so we can binge watch like we did with Breaking Bad.

We're already like 3 seasons in but have put it on hold for now.

My only regret is a show like Parks and Rec. I had but one year to enjoy the magnificence of Ron Swanson instead of the years I could have...

Now that McCann is putting Don on Co-ca Coooola, is this his work? Timeline fits.

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I wondered about that - sure doesn't seem like Don though, does it?

He's just too damn cynical. Does 'carousel' Don really still exist? Seems unlikely.

But I figure that's just the kind of open-ended conclusion we're going to get. Does Don keep the Coke account? Does he re-discover his fastball and become a key cog at arguably the biggest ad agency in the world or does he slide off into irrelevance after the end of his 4 year deal?

Is McCann really trying to bring these guys into the fold or are they just trying to cut some expenses while they wait for those employment contracts to expire? With Roger and probably Joan, it's probably the latter. With Don, Pete and Ted...well that's an open question.

Well, it's no Patio

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5 key companies were mentioned in the meeting but only 4 actually by name, with Joan noticing that she wasn't given a nod towards a company while everyone else did. Is that 5th company going to be given to Peggy?

Were they teasing the idea that Joan's new boyfriend is a con man or something?

If that was intimated, I missed it. It seems un-Joan-like but I wouldn't be surprised to see Joan move to SoCal, get bored and open her own shop at some point.

I still can't figure out how that spot didn't just blast Sal right into being straight.

That chick kinda melts my brain.

Redditor made the comment in a watch / post-ep thread that he didn't believe there was a "Lisa" to book Admiral Pike's red-eye flight.

That's nonsense.

Weiner isn't going to introduce a character, with only a few episodes left, that destroys Joan's life.

:facepalm:

The AVClub writeup is fantastic this week:

http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/mad-men-time-life-218571

This. Ending the series with Bert Cooper's soft shoe routine would have been perfect.

That reminds me, The Massacre of Glencoe that formed the basis for the Campbell/McDonald feud is also GRRM's basis for The Red Wedding.

Meh. I'm still enjoying the show. It definitely has the feeling of ending with a whimper instead of a bang, but I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing.

When I read up on the Glencoe thing last night (after watching the episode), I realized the same thing.

I'm emotionally invested in the characters and would prefer it end for them on an up note. This isn't season 4 of the Wire, where it's inevitable things are going to turn our horribly.

I just found it strange that he shouted to some unseen assistant to book a flight. Why even show that? Seemed purely for Joan's benefit.

I had a similar thought. If they work out together it gives her a financial "out" from McCann.

It clearly was for her benefit. If nothing else, it could be him showing her how much she means to him (and him making sure she heard the gesture).

I think it was to show that even in the early 70's, things hadn't changed in terms of "The man being in charge" with a secretary to do all of his "dirty work".

If that's the case, he could have just said "see you tonight".

Don't overthink it. It's a simple paternalistic gallant gesture.

'My fair maiden is distressed? Allow me to stop my machinations of industry and instruct my minions to prepare my travel plans!!'

The 1970s version of calling your squire to bring your steed and sword.

True. I thought he was trying to be showy for her sake. However, I don't dismiss the idea that his secretary doesn't actually exist.

why? Don and Roger shout for their secretary all the time when she's not visible.

But we have seen their secretaries and know for a fact they're real people. It was just the first thing that came to my mind, given Joan's track record with men and how she already told this guy she'd throw her son overboard to be with him.

This is silly conspiracy nonsense.

Matthew Weiner isn't going to create a character such as Richard, who's divorced with grown children, to suddenly come into Joan's life, fall in love, throw his plans of "freedom" out the window, only to be a sham, with two episodes left.

No offense but anyone that believes this has neither been an or spent time with an executive that employees an executive secretary. Even as recently as the early 2000's, I know CEO's and CFO's that wouldn't be able to get to their office without an executive secretary let alone, across the country.

only because they have other uses in the story. Richard's assistant is meaningless.

Not saying there's anything to it, just saying it seemed like a strange thing to do in the context of the scene.

not really. As mentioned, he wanted Joan to hear him do it. And he needed to do it. It was late afternoon east coast time IIRC so he needed to get a ticket.

Agreed. I doubt there is anything to it, but I wouldn't necessarily dismiss it either.

hardly. YOU are the one arguing against the obvious.

I'm not arguing anything. I'm stating an opinion about an artistic and stylistic choice. That it's at odds with your own seems to be bothering you, not me.

well, it seems to me you're arguing a plot point (why he did it, and if there is a secretary). But if you view it as a artistic and stylistic choice (like what color a suit is or a musical choice) so be it.

we'll agree to disagree...

We don't know much about the guy, other than what he has told us. He may be full of shit.

:shrug:

No, see, this is an argument. You are saying I am arguing a plot point when I am not. What I am doing is pointing out an admittedly maybe baseless perception I had about a particular scene and whether there is any import to the way it was shot and acted. You are arguing against what I perceived and thought at the spur of the moment. I tend to think Weiner is very specific in how and why things are set up, acted, and shot, whatever his intention were in this case. You don't. You think I am simply arguing against the obvious, when I'm actually surprised nobody else even picked up on the strangeness of that scene. Perception is just that.

I kind of hope Brock is right just due to the strident protestations of his theory.

So we're supposed to believe your conspiracy theory despite the fact that you missed the clear sarcasm from Joan w/r/t her son?

No, she most assuredly did not tell Richard that she'd throw her son overboard. She was mostly pointing out what a staggering prick he was to expect her to do so. It was almost ham-fisted in how biting it was.

It. Isn't. A. Theory.

It was just an impression I got from the way the scene was shot and acted.

Will admit to not being sure if joan was serious about leaving her son, both because I wasn't really paying attention to that scene and because I think Joan is a ditz and the actor playing her isn't very good. But after she had just shouted something about ruining her life in the direction of the kid, I thought she might have been serious about it.

Joan's real like actress reminds me of this girl I went to high school that was under water for like 5 minutes but still lived. sucked alot of dick tho

On season 5 now. Fat Betty is hilarious.

Don is so much better off.

I actually kind of like Pete Campbell now.

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****.

Joplin, MO celeb in tha hooooouse

Meredith is so awesome

HOLY

You sign a deal with the Devil then you shouldn't ****ing be shocked when the air starts to get hot.

Okay, **** AT&T for the good 2 minutes of dialogue I've missed because of their bullshit.

Pulling no punches in the back stretch.

The last season of Mad Men will be a case study 20+ years down the line of how commercial pressures affect artistic integrity.

:facepalm:

It couldn't be more predictable, IMO

Splitting season seven is/was totally unnecessary.

The gifs everyone wants:

Roger and Peggy wrap around shot
Peggy Skating
Damn it feels good to be a gansta

I'm not the biggest Peggy fan, but I would've bent her over a desk and jizzed the Zenu out of her ears at that moment

Your loss.

I'm not sure I follow. How is it "my loss" because I've viewed this final season as predictable?

On a side note, as I've stated in the past, the title sequence could mean several things but that was either a teaser, a prank or foreshadowing in last night's episode.

Because the inevitability of some of the developments doesn't take away from the beauty of the execution.

Roger being melancholy in leaving, Peggy being lost in the shuffle and Joan hitting a misogyny buzzsaw were all foreseeable. But they were executed with aplomb and were great television.

Your dismissal is like seeing the Mona Lisa, and saying 'meh, some old fart draw a chick. . . '

This might be the most naive sentence ever posted in the media forum.

EVERY TV series and/or film deals with commercial pressures versus artistic "integrity" to a degree of which would be impossible to explain and for most people to even fathom.

Be thankful that through it all, series like Mad Men, Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul and so on aren't suffocated by it to the point where it's unenjoyable for anyone to even bother.

Last night's episode was well executed but this final season just hasn't been compelling for me.

Now, if Don jumps out his window during the finale, we may have something.

Otherwise, meh.