Kelsey's killer: Married and father of one

[memyselfI]

and creepy looking as all get out. Per CNN. I just want to hurl hearing this bit of news.

http://www.myfoxkc.com/myfox/photo_servlet?contentId=3426833&version=1&locale=EN-US&subtype=MIMG&siteId=1020&isP16=true

http://www.kansascity.com/132/story/138680.html

Neighbors talk about suspect
By LAURA BAUER
The Kansas City Star

TETONA DUNLAP | The Kansas City Star
Missy and Greg Smith make a statement late Wednesday in Overland Park, Kan. Police announced at the news conference that charges are being filed against Edwin R. Hall, 26, of Olathe, Kan. in connection with the kidnapping and murder of their daughter Kelsey Smith.
‘Pings’ assist in missing-persons cases
Fateful hours on Saturday night
Neighbors and former neighbors of Edwin R. Hall are waking up this morning to a shock, as Hall is expected to be formally charged later today with the slaying of Kelsey Smith.

Hall and his wife Aletha and young son weren’t known to cause any trouble for neighbors. Their little boy, who was around 3 when they lived in a Newton Avenue town home in Kansas City, loved to play in his Batman cape.

“Just a nice young family,” said Sarale Russ, who lives in the 9300 block of Newton Avenue where the Halls lived until earlier this year. “Nothing unusual.”

Like countless others in the metro area, Russ followed the disappearance of Kelsey and has seen the surveillance video.

“It didn’t look like” her former neighbor, she said. Russ now remembers the family’s dark-colored, older model Chevrolet pickup — seen in surveillance video pulling in after Kelsey in a Target parking lot Saturday — that Aletha Hall would often drive to work.

Hall currently lived in a small home in the 500 block of North Lincoln. Neighbor Cameron Migues is talking with numerous reporters this morning, describing a nice, normal guy who worked in a restaurant.

Shortly after Kelsey’s body was found in a wooded area not far from Longview Lake Park, detectives were talking with Hall. A tip from the public led them to the 26-year-old Olathe man.

Smith had been missing since Saturday evening, when she didn’t return from an errand to a Target store at 97th Street and Quivira Road.

Her body was found as more than 200 law enforcement officers searched a 900-acre area in south Kansas City. The search there came after police discovered that Kelsey’s cell phone signaled a tower in that vicinity Saturday night.

[Hootie]

Innocent until proven guilty...

[memyselfI]

Innocent until proven guilty...

Yes, in a court of law.

This ain't no court of law.

[Mr. Plow]

Being a floating head and all, he does look pretty weird.

[L.A. Chieffan]

He's not white or mexican. He's Eastern Euro-trash

[Dartgod]

Yes, in a court of law.

This ain't no court of law.
Really? Very interesting....

[Hootie]

that dude does look ****ing creepy as helll...

[Hootie]

does anyone know what the link was between this guy and Kelsey?

[Demonpenz]

does anyone know what the link was between this guy and Kelsey?


i think he is suspected of killing and raping her.

[gblowfish]

He could be a My Space Stalker:

He's got a myspace account...
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=139495895

So did the victim:

http://www.myspace.com/bandbaby2007

[jynni]

He really doesn't look all that creepy to me. He's just normal looking...

Although, I guess that could add to the creepieness. The fact that he looks like the average mid twenties male in ov pk...

[Mr. Plow]

Male
26 years old
OVERLAND PARK, Kansas
United States
Last Login: 6/6/2007[B]

He logged in yesterday?

[ChiefsCountry]

Male
26 years old
OVERLAND PARK, Kansas
United States
Last Login: 6/6/2007[B]

He logged in yesterday?

He got arrested last night.

[Radar Chief]

i think he is suspected of killing and raping her.

I’ve yet to read of any charges of rape or battery or anything similar.

[Mr. Plow]

He got arrested last night.

I'm not sure why, but that's kind of creeps me out.

[Phobia]

I'm not sure why, but that's kind of creeps me out.

I'm guessing he's a Chiefs fan. He could just as easily be a member here.

[Hootie]

He could be a My Space Stalker:

He's got a myspace account...
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=139495895

So did the victim:

http://www.myspace.com/bandbaby2007
If I friend request him...what are the chances he accepts anytime soon?

[cookster50]

Yes, in a court of law.

This ain't no court of law.
Out of anyone here, I figured you would be shouting down people screaming INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY!!!! Shocking that your not.

[Phobia]

Out of anyone here, I figured you would be shouting down people screaming INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY!!!! Shocking that your not.

Why is that shocking? We're talking about a young, white dude. They're all guilty.

[Sure-Oz]

Im suprised kelseys page hasn't been taken down.

[memyselfI]

Out of anyone here, I figured you would be shouting down people screaming INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY!!!! Shocking that your not.


Nope. I reserve the right to pass judgement/opinion on the guilt of someone if believe them so. That is quite different that believing that THE GOVERNMENT or judicial system has the right to do so.

That also doesn't mean I think the accused's judicial rights should be diminished in any fashion. I'm not serving on his jury thus I can choose to speculate in his guilt or innocence. If I were asked then I don't think I'd make the cut because I already think he's guilty based on what I've read about the case.

[jidar]

obviously a rapist.

Also he's normal looking to me.

[memyselfI]

Why is that shocking? We're talking about a young, white dude. They're all guilty.

OJ is white??? :hmmm:

[jidar]

OJ is white??? :hmmm:


oj did it, even the black people know

[Reerun_KC]

oj did it, even the black people know
Ya think?

[chuxtrux]

Im not sure if that myspace is his. If you go to his wifes myspace page and there is a guy named jack who pretty much lookes exactly like the guy, so im guessing that was his nickname. Here is the linke to that myspace

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=97922785

[SLAG]

oj did it, even the black people know

I'm not saying he should have killed her....

but i understand

[Mr. Plow]

Jack's interests:

eating small children and harming small animals

[Sure-Oz]

I'm not saying he should have killed her....

but i understand
dubya tee eff mate

[Reerun_KC]

I wonder how his wife and family feel about this?

I am sure she is just sick....

[Hootie]

Im suprised kelseys page hasn't been taken down.
why? A lot of people are posting nice comments on her blog...

[FAX]

This is a very sad story. Another in a long line of senseless acts of violence against women in our country.

I'm beginning to wonder if A&E, the History Channel, the Discovery Channel, et al, are glorifying real life killers to the point that morons of his ilk get the idea that they can do something like this and get away with it.

FAX

[Reerun_KC]

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by SLAG
I'm not saying he should have killed her....

but i understand

dubya tee eff mate


SLAG you have some serious f*cking issues.. You understand why he killed her?


WTF are you thinking?

[memyselfI]

Im not sure if that myspace is his. If you go to his wifes myspace page and there is a guy named jack who pretty much lookes exactly like the guy, so im guessing that was his nickname. Here is the linke to that myspace

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=97922785

One of the girls on that page resembles Kelsey. That is sort of creepy too.

[Hootie]

Im not sure if that myspace is his. If you go to his wifes myspace page and there is a guy named jack who pretty much lookes exactly like the guy, so im guessing that was his nickname. Here is the linke to that myspace

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=97922785
yeah people are reeming him in his blog

[SLAG]

dubya tee eff mate
its from a chris rock stand up re: oj

[Radar Chief]

dubya tee eff mate

Chris Rock skit.
He went on about his wife letting the guy she was screwing drive the car OJ bought her, then said, “I wouldn’t kill her, but I understand”.
Saw him on a talk show after he did that skit and he said OJ called him and left a message on his machine that said something like, “I didn’t think your joke was funny, but I understand”. Said the way OJ said it was the creepiest thing he’s ever heard.

[Sure-Oz]

its from a chris rock stand up re: oj
ahh ok ROFL

[ROYC75]

Yes, in a court of law.

This ain't no court of law.

Duke LaCrosse team ring a bell ?

If in fact he did it, so be the punishment, but if not, so goes his whole life too. The media/public can convict you when you may be innocent.

[Donger]

And the vulture makes an appearance on the main forum.

Gee, what a surprise.

[Hootie]

the guy has 11 friends...two are online now...if I were those two, I'd ****ing drop him from my friends list REAAAAAAL quick.

[Sure-Oz]

yeah people are reeming him in his blog
The power of Myspace!

[memyselfI]

Duke LaCrosse team ring a bell ?

If in fact he did it, so be the punishment, but if not, so goes his whole life too. The media/public can convict you when you may be innocent.

I remember saying 'if' about that particular story. I did not have a sense they were guilty...

especially after Sharpton got involved.

[chagrin]

This is a very sad story. Another in a long line of senseless acts of violence against women in our country.

I'm beginning to wonder if A&E, the History Channel, the Discovery Channel, et al, are glorifying real life killers to the point that morons of his ilk get the idea that they can do something like this and get away with it.

FAX

That's the very least of the influence hitting freaks like him, daily

[Dartgod]

I remember saying 'if' about that particular story. I did not have a sense they were guilty...

especially after Sharpton got involved.
http://www.donmar.com/sunroofs/WindtamerCar.jpg

http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/rv-hitches/trail-eze-wind-deflector.jpg

[memyselfI]

This is a very sad story. Another in a long line of senseless acts of violence against women in our country.

I'm beginning to wonder if A&E, the History Channel, the Discovery Channel, et al, are glorifying real life killers to the point that morons of his ilk get the idea that they can do something like this and get away with it.

FAX

Court TV, MSNBC 'Investigates', yada, yada, yada. I do think we are extremely desensitized to this sort of stuff in this country. I mean, look at the way the UK has responded to the kidnapping of Madeline Dunn. Here there is lots of press and awareness raising but you don't see alot of celebrities contributing big bucks to reward funds or making PAs about the case or an entire nation in shock.

Wynona Rider being a notable exception.

[htismaqe]

I'm guessing he's a Chiefs fan. He could just as easily be a member here.

Wouldn't be too hard to figure out if that were true.

However, sometimes it's better not to know certain things...

[Hootie]

Wouldn't be too hard to figure out if that were true.

However, sometimes it's better not to know certain things...
thank GOD...

I was nervous!

[siberian khatru]

Hi, this is siberian's wife. Um, siberian wanted me to tell you he won't be posting here for awhile. Thanks. Bye.

[Phobia]

Hi, this is siberian's wife. Um, siberian wanted me to tell you he won't be posting here for awhile. Thanks. Bye.

I don't believe this post for a second. Siberian couldn't score a woman without a white delivery truck and a ski mask.

[tk13]

I don't believe this post for a second. Siberian couldn't score a woman without a white delivery truck and a ski mask.
Tranquilizer darts. Don't forget the tranquilizer darts.

[Demonpenz]

yep

[jiveturkey]

yeah people are reeming him in his blogWayne landed the upper cut with this one.

"You suck at life"

That Wayne really knows how to get into someone's head.

[htismaqe]

thank GOD...

I was nervous!

Not funny.

[InChiefsHeaven]

I haven't heard any details on this at all, other than she left a store, this dude was seen on the tape. Now they've arrested him. I'm sure they must have good reason...can somebody give me a synopsis of what led to the arrest?

[Phobia]

I haven't heard any details on this at all, other than she left a store, this dude was seen on the tape. Now they've arrested him. I'm sure they must have good reason...can somebody give me a synopsis of what led to the arrest?

Not too much out there right now. The other thing is that he owns the truck seen at the scene.

[tomahawk kid]

I haven't heard any details on this at all, other than she left a store, this dude was seen on the tape. Now they've arrested him. I'm sure they must have good reason...can somebody give me a synopsis of what led to the arrest?

He matched the description along with the truck he drove.

His neighbor turned him in.

[memyselfI]

So my son sees this picture and thinks the guys eyes look cold. I think they look vacant. I can understand that anyone NOT Paris Hilton or Tom Delay might have an unflattering mug shot.

But CNN showed video of him going to his arraignment and he had those same eyes...

[Bill Lundberg]

The resemblance is disturbing...

[scooter]

The resemblance is disturbing...

I wonder if Samwise knows what his friend did.

http://a.madboot.com/frodoE.jpg

[Immaculate]

Death.

[Megbert]

looks to me as though he should be on a Kraftwerk CD cover.

[Pitt Gorilla]

http://www.nndb.com/people/898/000025823/autograph11.jpg

[chagrin]

CREEPY dude - I just saw that footage you spoke of - he is a creepy looking fuggin dude.

I feel terrible for that girl, spending her last moments like that. I hope she's at peace now, and her family can somehow find peace as well.

[memyselfI]

:mad: :banghead: :shake: :cuss:

FOUL.

This is one of the most offensive posts you have ever posted. :banghead: :cuss: Me thinks Joaquin Phoenix is yummy.


http://www.nndb.com/people/898/000025823/autograph11.jpg

[memyselfI]

CREEPY dude - I just saw that footage you spoke of - he is a creepy looking fuggin dude.

I feel terrible for that girl, spending her last moments like that. I hope she's at peace now, and her family can somehow find peace as well.

Don't think you and I have ever agreed on anything...


here is a link for those to see for themselves.

http://www.myfoxkc.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=3387311&version=101&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1

[ChiefsFan4Life]

Anyone see this video? http://www.myfoxkc.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=3428021&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1

Why does it seem like her boyfriend is smiling or happy? Shouldn't he be sad/angry?

[Oh Snap]

did he have an accomplice? How did he get his truck back? I havent been reading up on this like i should have..been busy. But my thoughts and prayers go out to Kesley smith and her family and friends.

[Oh Snap]

Anyone see this video? http://www.myfoxkc.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=3428021&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1

Why does it seem like her boyfriend is smiling or happy? Shouldn't he be sad/angry?
He could possibly still be in shock..

[chagrin]

Don't think you and I have ever agreed on anything...


I hate it when you're civil - takes the fun out of disliking you :p

[Delano]

Don't think you and I have ever agreed on anything...


here is a link for those to see for themselves.

http://www.myfoxkc.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=3387311&version=101&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1

IMO he looks like he has been awake for several days. I bet the investigators are working this guy over.

I hope the police have the right guy.

[hawkchief]

How can that POS be walking around without cuffs on, with an old cop escorting him? He's got nothing to lose by going for the cop's gun. I can't imagine that's standard police protocol.

[Stewie]

did he have an accomplice? How did he get his truck back? I havent been reading up on this like i should have..been busy. But my thoughts and prayers go out to Kesley smith and her family and friends.

He drove her car back to the mall and walked to Target to get his truck.

[big nasty kcnut]

I hope he dies and burn in hell. Also you can't blame tv shows to cause murder it like saying having a car create a greenhouse effect when there are other reasons like cows and trees.

[Deberg_1990]

This is a very sad story. Another in a long line of senseless acts of violence against women in our country.

I'm beginning to wonder if A&E, the History Channel, the Discovery Channel, et al, are glorifying real life killers to the point that morons of his ilk get the idea that they can do something like this and get away with it.

FAX


and tomorrow "Hostel II" opens. By all accounts, one of the most violent, nasty, and just plain brutal mainstream flicks to ever depict violence against women in this country..Im shocked we havent seen more protests over this flick.


That clip in the media center lounge made me sick to my stomach.

[FAX]

I hope he dies and burn in hell. Also you can't blame tv shows to cause murder it like saying having a car create a greenhouse effect when there are other reasons like cows and trees.

I agree with everything you said, Mr. kcnut ... except for the part about cows and trees killing people.

Please understand that, I'm not saying tv shows are a cause for murder. I'm simply wondering aloudish if "celebrating" infamy feeds or fosters an existing desire in some people to pursue their dark fantasies.

FAX

[jiveturkey]

So everyone is going with the old movie and TV violence excuse?

I'm guessing that murder didn't occur back in the good ole days.

[Oh Snap]

i am seriously saddened by this news. One person ruined the lives of many ppl based on his actions. thanks for summing that one up for me stewie, i wasnt sure about that.

[memyselfI]

So everyone is going with the old movie and TV violence excuse?

I'm guessing that murder didn't occur back in the good ole days.

I don't think that is what we are saying...at least I'm not. We are saying that killers are profiled like celebrities these days. For instance, I'm watching the national news, something I rarely do, and they have a tease featuring Kelsey's killer. The voice over says 'who is Edward Hall and what double life did he lead...' It goes on to say they are going to talk to his neighbors and friends who saw him before and after the murder.

Why do we need to see this any more than we needed to see the VTech killer's maniacal diatribes?

[Micjones]

We don't.

That kind of stuff need not be sensationalized.

[FAX]

So everyone is going with the old movie and TV violence excuse?

I'm guessing that murder didn't occur back in the good ole days.

I'm conflicted on the subject, frankly. I agree that the media are a good strawman whenever something like this happens, Mr. jiveturkey. But on the other hand, I wonder sometimes if treating nutcases like superstars is the best idea.

FAX

[Deberg_1990]

I don't think that is what we are saying...at least I'm not. We are saying that killers are profiled like celebrities these days. For instance, I'm watching the national news, something I rarely do, and they have a tease featuring Kelsey's killer. The voice over says 'who is Edward Hall and what double life did he lead...' It goes on to say they are going to talk to his neighbors and friends who saw him before and after the murder.

Why do we need to see this any more than we needed to see the VTech killer's maniacal diatribes?

People in this country are fascinated with lurid details...

[Oh Snap]

I'm conflicted on the subject, frankly. I agree that the media are a good strawman whenever something like this happens, Mr. jiveturkey. But on the other hand, I wonder sometimes if treating nutcases like superstars is the best idea.

FAX
i think its intimidating for these "nutcases" as it puts a face to the criminal who committed such a hateful acts in the first place. It brands them for what they rightfully are.

[wutamess]

I hope he dies and burn in hell. Also you can't blame tv shows to cause murder it like saying having a car create a greenhouse effect when there are other reasons like cows and trees.

What if there's no hell?
What if hell was created through a series of stories to strike fear into people to get them to believe an ideology?

As far as the dieing part... We'll all do that. That's for sure.

[SCChief]

i think its intimidating for these "nutcases" as it puts a face to the criminal who committed such a hateful acts in the first place. It brands them for what they rightfully are.

True. But I think a lot of these guys get off on the attention. And I think a lot of the guys who think about doing things like this see them sensationalized in the media and it acts as an encouragement.

Question... wasn't there a 17-year-old girl that disappeared about a month ago not far from where this body was found?

[Rain Man]

I hope he dies and burn in hell. Also you can't blame tv shows to cause murder it like saying having a car create a greenhouse effect when there are other reasons like cows and trees.

I am personally working to solve this problem by eating the cows.

[Easy 6]

I wonder if Samwise knows what his friend did.

http://a.madboot.com/frodoE.jpg

Thats exactly the guy that came to mind when i saw that pic.

If he's found guilty, i can only hope he recieves the worst possible treatment in prison while awaiting his death. He destroyed Kelseys life, her family, his wife, his son, his family...the gut-wrenching pain they all must be feeling right now is hard to imagine.

[dr00d]

looks like they deleted his page on myspace.

[memyselfI]

I wish Nancy Grace would learn to tell the story without so much fuggin drama. My God, the story is awful enough. Her theatrics are just nauseating...

Kelsey's parents are on the show and that is the ONLY reason I'm watching. I admire their courage to do the show. It's a shame Nancy is a disgrace.

Oh God, they have criminal profiler on the show going on about how the perp fits the profile and how his m.o. is sexual brutalization. Meanwhile, Kelsey's parents are sitting there on the panel. :shake:

[KcMizzou]

I wish Nancy Grace would learn to tell the story without so much fuggin drama. My God, the story is awful enough. Her theatrics are just nauseating...

Kelsey's parents are on the show and that is the ONLY reason I'm watching. I admire their courage to do the show. It's a shame Nancy is a disgrace.Yeah... can't stand that woman.

[DanT]

I bet Nancy Grace was a helluva linebacker in high school.

[Eleazar]

So everyone is going with the old movie and TV violence excuse?

I'm guessing that murder didn't occur back in the good ole days.

I doubt that it took place at the same rate.

[chagrin]

I don't know about "everybody" but you have to admit, higher crime rates across the board - I certainly believe in outside influences; if things can influence folks for good - how can any logical person not realize that things influence in bad ways as well? Not just TV, all kinds of shit. Obviously there are many who have mental diseases as well; it's both nurture (not necessarily by parents) and nature.

Don't let me disrupt the political circle jerk that's brewing though. You all enjoy the debate

[memyselfI]

Kelsey's parents are on Larry King Live now. Hopefully a more tasteful panel on this show.

Larry is a senile old wind bag.

John, the boyfriend, is laughing but he's only doing so because he's being strong for her parents.

[Rain Man]

I bet it turns out that this guy was home-schooled.

[C-Mac]

So everyone is going with the old movie and TV violence excuse?

I'm guessing that murder didn't occur back in the good ole days.

Well there are many pieces to the puzzle, these just being some. There is also video game violence, hardcore pornography, children being raised by children, family breakdown, greed, ect. None of which can be excused as totally uninfluentual to society.

[Easy 6]

I bet it turns out that this guy was home-schooled.

... LMAO ...ROCK SOLID.

[Valiant]

Well there are many pieces to the puzzle, these just being some. There is also video game violence, hardcore pornography, children being raised by children, family breakdown, greed, ect. None of which can be excused as totally uninfluentual to society.


All that was there back in the day also except in my opinion of the family structure.. Family breakdown has really diminished and the video game violence is just like the kids playing with their 22's killing everything in sight..

Nothing has really changed except for good parenting and 100x the media exposure/coverage where you can find out about stuff now...

[C-Mac]

All that was there back in the day also except in my opinion of the family structure.. Family breakdown has really diminished and the video game violence is just like the kids playing with their 22's killing everything in sight..

Nothing has really changed except for good parenting and 100x the media exposure/coverage where you can find out about stuff now...


I'm not sure what time period you associate with "back in the day" but things like the television, internet, graphic video games, family breakdown have coincided right along with the rise in crime in our lifetime.

[Demonpenz]

I live over here in the ghetto and it is sad to see so many young girls just not give a shit about their future at all. I see girls every day like 18 or 19 just as pregnant as you can be.

[KcMizzou]

I live over here in the ghetto and it is sad to see so many young girls just not give a shit about their future at all. I see girls every day like 18 or 19 just as pregnant as you can be.Hey now, at least five or six of those are your fault.

[Demonpenz]

Hey now, at least five or six of those are your fault.


Luckily for everyone I doubt I will ever breed

[Demonpenz]

This is going to be cliche and tired, but I am going to say it anyway. This is a sad story but people get blasted around here (2 people just on thursday) Drunk driving killed a couple young kids people get murdered all the time around here and it barely gets any news. I think I am just jealous because I could see myself getting capped at a BP and the I would get like 2 minutes on kq2

[old_geezer]

looks like they deleted his page on myspace.


I'll be quite happy when they delete his space on planet Earth.

[memyselfI]

If you need a good cry...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6oYLJn9moI

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Why the hell do people feel the need to refer to crime victims on a first name basis? You don't know them, and if they died in a car wreck, which is altogether more likely, you wouldn't give a f*ck.

This is self-absorbed hand-wringing at its worst.

[Demonpenz]

You tube tributes a million blogs. There is going to be some backlash for all this. I can see the ytmd coming as we speak.

[dtebbe]

I live over here in the ghetto and it is sad to see so many young girls just not give a shit about their future at all. I see girls every day like 18 or 19 just as pregnant as you can be.

Ho gotta eat....

[BWillie]

I'm not sure what time period you associate with "back in the day" but things like the television, internet, graphic video games, family breakdown have coincided right along with the rise in crime in our lifetime.

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

Actually, violent crime is decreasing steadily ever since 1991 at a pretty good clip. I don't know about you, but thats a pretty good sign..and if you look at the murder rate last few years they are some of the lowest rates since these statistics started in 1960.

The rate of murders per 100,000 inhabitants was 5.5 in 2004, while in 1966 it was 5.6 per 100K.

[Mr. Laz]

Kelsey Smith strangled, district attorney says
By DIANE CARROLL
The Kansas City Star

Kelsey Smith was strangled, the Johnson County District Attorney’s Office said this morning.

The office released the cause of death as “asphyxia, due to ligature strangulation.” Spokesman Brian Burgess said he could not comment on what type of ligature was used or provide any other details.

Also this morning, attorney Paul D. Cramm of Olathe filed notice that he will be representing Edwin “Jack” Hall, the 26-year-old charged in the killing of 18-year-old Smith of Overland Park. He immediately filed a nine-page document asking prosecutors to provide evidence or statements made pertaining to the case.

Smith, a recent Shawnee Mission West High School graduate, disappeared Saturday night after shopping at an Overland Park Target. Her body was discovered Wednesday in southern Jackson County.

Hall was charged Thursday with first-degree murder and aggravated kidnapping.

[Bill Lundberg]

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

Actually, violent crime is decreasing steadily ever since 1991 at a pretty good clip. I don't know about you, but thats a pretty good sign..and if you look at the murder rate last few years they are some of the lowest rates since these statistics started in 1960.

The rate of murders per 100,000 inhabitants was 5.5 in 2004, while in 1966 it was 5.6 per 100K.

This is because of legalized abortions.

http://www.isteve.com/abortion.htm

[Pitt Gorilla]

I'm not sure what time period you associate with "back in the day" but things like the television, internet, graphic video games, family breakdown have coincided right along with the rise in crime in our lifetime.A rise in crime? Could you explain?

[Simply Red]

Out of anyone here, I figured you would be shouting down people screaming INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY!!!! Shocking that your not.
She's more conservative than even she knows. Product of brainwashing by her mom most likely.

[kc rush]

I hadn't followed the story too much after they found her body. I had seen the video of him leaving Target on the news, and finally decided to look here to get a bit more info.

The scary thing is that if the address in the article is right, this guy lives less than a mile away from me.

[memyselfI]

All sorts of trouble in this man's past.


I'm very relieved for his son that he's not raising this child anymore.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,279612,00.html

TOPEKA, Kan. — A man now accused of kidnapping and killing a Johnson County teenager was convicted 11 years ago of threatening his adoptive sister at knifepoint.

According to court records obtained by The Associated Press on Friday, a judge convicted Edwin R. Hall after he pleaded no contest to aggravated assault in May 1996 and removed him from his adoptive home. Hall was then placed in state custody. A second charge of making a criminal threat was dismissed.

Hall, 26, of Olathe, was charged Thursday with first-degree murder and aggravated kidnapping of 18-year-old Kelsey Smith at a Target parking lot in suburban Kansas City.

The Johnson County district attorney's office said Friday that Smith was strangled with a ligature, although spokesman Brian Burgess would not say exactly what was used.

Hall's attorney, Paul Cramm, did not return calls seeking comment, and his secretary said he was not commenting. Cramm filed notice with the court Friday that he would be representing Hall and requested prosecutors' evidence against his client.

His adoptive parents, Carol and Don Hall, of Emporia, about 80 miles southwest of Edwin Hall's Olathe home, didn't immediately return a call placed by the AP. However, Carol Hall told The Emporia Gazette that Edwin did something when he was 15 that made the couple feel he was a danger to the family. She did not provide details of the incident to the newspaper but said the couple felt they would have to give up Edwin, whom they had adopted when he was 7.

"That was the last time he was in our home," Carol Hall told The Gazette about the incident that occurred when Edwin was 15. The Halls hoped then that someone would be able "to get him the help that he needed."

She said the family felt "sick and in shock" about the charges against Edwin Hall involving Smith's death.

Surveillance video shows Smith being forced into her car in the Overland Park Target store's parking lot around 7:10 p.m. Saturday. The woman's body was found four days later near a lake about 20 miles away in Missouri.

The knife incident wasn't Edwin's first brush with the law. He was placed under supervision in 1994 by a Lyon County judge for taking his father's truck without permission, according to juvenile court records. A year later, he was again placed under supervision for stealing cash and a tape recorder, the records show.

In 2002, Hall and his adoptive parents were sued in civil court by a Lyon County man who claimed Hall beat him the back of the head with a baseball bat, court records show. The man sought $50,000 from the family, but the case was later dismissed.

Carol Hall told The Gazette she and her husband, who have three daughters, adopted Edwin after reading a newspaper article about children available for adoption.

"I felt like we could make a difference, help someone out," she said. "I love kids. We took him into our home with the intention of adopting him."

However, she said Edwin had behavior problems that were associated with his early childhood. Some of those problems were evident during the time he lived with the Halls before the adoption.

"You think you can give them love and all those things they didn't get, like support. It works with some, but with him, it didn't," Carol Hall said.

Despite the family's best efforts, Edwin continued to have problems at home and school, she said, often being defiant.

After Edwin was removed from the home, the family didn't see him again until he called them about three or four years ago. Carol Hall said he seemed calm and in control of his life.

"I felt really good. I would have had no fear of him," she said.

[Bob Dole]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,279612,00.html
"That was the last time he was in our home," Carol Hall told The Gazette about the incident that occurred when Edwin was 15. The Halls hoped then that someone would be able "to get him the help that he needed."


The kid was a minor--in your care--yet you hoped that someone else would be able to get him the help that he needed.

It's everyone else's responsibility to get him help. Thanks for doing your part, Mrs. Hall.

[C-Mac]

A rise in crime? Could you explain?

Seriously?

In the year 1960 Murder was 5.1 per 100K
In the year 2005 Murder was 5.6 per 100K (although was much higher just a few years earlier)

In the year 1960 Rape was 9.6 per 100K
In the year 2005 Rape was 31.7 per 100K

In the year 1960 Auto Theft was 183.0 per 100K
In the year 2005 Auto Theft was 416.7 per 100K

In the year 1960 Violent Crime was 160.9 per 100K
In the year 2005 Violent Crime was 469.2 per 100K

[Valiant]

The kid was a minor--in your care--yet you hoped that someone else would be able to get him the help that he needed.

It's everyone else's responsibility to get him help. Thanks for doing your part, Mrs. Hall.


He threatened one of their girls with a knife, felt he was too dangerous to be in their home... Don't see a problem with it, they hoped someone who maybe didn't have other kids that might be threatened could care for him...

Seriously they had him for 8 years and he was that violent to them??? That guy did have some major problems... Unfortunately this looks like it is turning out to be a person that was not helpable...

[Bob Dole]

He threatened one of their girls with a knife, felt he was too dangerous to be in their home... Don't see a problem with it, they hoped someone who maybe didn't have other kids that might be threatened could care for him...

Because admitting him to some sort of treatment facility would have required them to address the problem themselves.

Bob Dole isn't suggesting they should have kept him in the home. Bob Dole is stating that it was their responsibility--not someone else's--to get professional help for their adopted son.

[chagrin]

Because admitting him to some sort of treatment facility would have required them to address the problem themselves.

Bob Dole isn't suggesting they should have kept him in the home. Bob Dole is stating that it was their responsibility--not someone else's--to get professional help for their adopted son.


Idealists do not learn

[Valiant]

Seriously?


Yes.. It does not seem like it but on average crime has been going down...

When I get back I can get stats that disagree with yours.. Depending on whose criteria you look at they will all show something different...

[Valiant]

Because admitting him to some sort of treatment facility would have required them to address the problem themselves.

Bob Dole isn't suggesting they should have kept him in the home. Bob Dole is stating that it was their responsibility--not someone else's--to get professional help for their adopted son.


I won't argue that...

I am just coming from their perspective on wanting to protect their children...

[C-Mac]

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

Actually, violent crime is decreasing steadily ever since 1991 at a pretty good clip. I don't know about you, but thats a pretty good sign..and if you look at the murder rate last few years they are some of the lowest rates since these statistics started in 1960.

The rate of murders per 100,000 inhabitants was 5.5 in 2004, while in 1966 it was 5.6 per 100K.

I can agree to some point that certain crimes are decreasing but the reality is that neither I nor my family feel any safer today than we did last year, rather they feel less safe. I never worried about someone coming to my school and shooting people, but that is a real fear for kids today and its not getting any better. Sex crimes and fraudulant crimes are on a steady rise.

[Valiant]

I can agree to some point that certain crimes are decreasing but the reality is that neither I nor my family feel any safer today than we did last year, rather they feel less safe. I never worried about someone coming to my school and shooting people, but that is a real fear for kids today and its not getting any better. Sex crimes and fraudulant crimes are on a steady rise.


Or just reported more...

[C-Mac]

Yes.. It does not seem like it but on average crime has been going down...

Comparing crime from 1960 to 2005, it all has increased. Some more significantly than others yes, but it still has overall increased reguardless if it has fluctuated.

[C-Mac]

Or just reported more...

Wishful thinking.....just not reality.

[memyselfI]

This is because of legalized abortions.

http://www.isteve.com/abortion.htm

Just saw your avatar. Extremely adorable dog. :clap:

[munkey]

Wishful thinking.....just not reality.

BS...

AND you know it.

[ClevelandBronco]

BS...

AND you know it.

I'm in here listening to a conversation between these gentlemen and you just walk in and fart.

[munkey]

I'm in here listening to a conversation between these gentlemen and you just walk in and fart.

Opps...

excuse me :)

[memyselfI]

Because admitting him to some sort of treatment facility would have required them to address the problem themselves.

Bob Dole isn't suggesting they should have kept him in the home. Bob Dole is stating that it was their responsibility--not someone else's--to get professional help for their adopted son.

The media is making a big deal about 'Jack's' My Space and how he was troubled because he said he likes to eat small children and hurt animals. I thought they were making too big a deal of that (seeing that lots of people post stupid stuff like that on those sites) but in light of what we are reading about him I think perhaps it was NOT just hyperbole.

I'm not saying he did those things but the fact that he listed Strangeland and A Clockwork Orange as his favorite movies is very creepy. They both deal with rape and brutality against women.

[KcMizzou]

I'm not saying he did those things but the fact that he listed Strangeland and A Clockwork Orange as his favorite movies is very creepy. They both deal with rape and brutality against women.You can't judge people by their taste in music or movies. A Clockwork Orange is a classic. Millions of people are fans of that movie.

As for the comments... If you rounded up every kid who said something shocking online you'd be pretty busy. It's generally just a ploy for attention.

Sure, in hindsight things like this seem like a pieces of a puzzle someone should have put together long ago, but it's not nearly that simple.


The violence in his past... there's something that should have been acted upon.

[memyselfI]

You can't judge people by their taste in music or movies. A Clockwork Orange is a classic. Millions of people are fans of that movie.

As for the comments... If you rounded up every kid who said something shocking online you'd be pretty busy. It's generally just a ploy for attention.

Sure, in hindsight things like this seem like a pieces of a puzzle someone should have put together long ago, but it's not nearly that simple.


The violence in his past... there's something that should have been acted upon.

Well that was actually my point. The media freaking out about the hyperbole of the 'small animals and children' was comical. A quick read of my son's friends Facebook or My Space (yes, he shares them with me) would make those unfamiliar with those kids freak out at some of the stuff they are saying.

But none of those kids have the kinds of violence issues that this young man had starting at an early age.

I've said it before, you can just see some kids who you sense will not make it through to adulthood without hurting themselves or someone else. My son and his group of friends had befriended someone I felt was like that and I warned him that I felt very ill at ease with this person. He didn't want to see it at first but by the beginning of the second year of their friendship he and his group of friends had seen enough and distanced themselves from him.

The kid had a really sexist and mean misogynist sense of humor at age 14. He also was very frustrated with his inability to get attention from girls and very resentful of the attention they paid to his other friends. He became really crude and obnoxious. At first those his age thought he was joking but by the time they'd seen him for awhile they sensed he really might not be.

I was glad my son and his friends saw him for what he is and now have nothing to do with him. Meanwhile, he's grown more isolated from his peer group and last I heard was getting in trouble alot at home. I shudder to think what could lie ahead of he doesn't get some help at some point.

FTR, my son loves the movie ACWO.

[KcMizzou]

Well that was actually my point. Yeah, I wasn't arguing with anything you said there.... just thinking out-loud, really.

I just quoted your posted because it's what got me thinking about it.

[stevieray]

I'm not saying he did those things but the fact that he listed Strangeland and A Clockwork Orange as his favorite movies is very creepy. They both deal with rape and brutality against women.

and one of your son loves the same movie?

[chagrin]

Hey Kansas folks, any word on what's going on with this a-hole? Has he bothered to give a reason for what he did?

[Fly O.T. McWall]

Hey Kansas folks, any word on what's going on with this a-hole? Has he bothered to give a reason for what he did?
Charged yesterday with 2 unrelated charges... indecent liberties with a 14-year-old. They vehemently deny it was Kelsey.

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/mostpopular/story.aspx?content_id=b742829d-1cd7-468c-acf9-2fa44c148a83

NBC is pimping an investigative story about Hall tonight at 10. (http://www.nbcactionnews.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoId=265815@kshb.dayport.com)

[KC Kings]

So everyone is going with the old movie and TV violence excuse?

I'm guessing that murder didn't occur back in the good ole days.

Not me! Media could not have been a culprit, because he was white. White people have full mental capacity and are able to think for ourselves without being influced by outside sources.

Now if he was black, it would have been all of the media's fault.Whitlock would be back on Oprah trying to end all of the rap songs that talk about violent actions against women and every black activist would be speaking out against rap industry.

[DenverChief]

He could be a My Space Stalker:

He's got a myspace account...
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=139495895

So did the victim:

http://www.myspace.com/bandbaby2007


looks like they took down his acct

[dr00d]

yeah, myspace shut it down with-in about ten hours of the arrest. His page and all of his friends (including his wife) was getting bombarded by some pretty hateful messages on their blogs.