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Old 07-22-2014, 09:34 AM  
Stinger Stinger is offline
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Fed appeals court panel says most Obamacare subsidies illegal

This is a breaking news story. Please check back for updates.

In a potentially crippling blow to Obamacare, a top federal appeals court Tuesday said that billions of dollars worth of government subsidies that helped 4.7 million people buy insurance on HealthCare.gov are not legal under the Affordable Care Act.

In its decision, a three-judge panel said that such subsidies can be granted only to people who bought insurance in an Obamacare exchange run by an individual state or the District of Columbia — not on the federally run exchange HealthCare.gov. Plaintiffs in the case known as Halbig v. Burwell argued that the ACA, as written, only allows that often-significant financial aid to be issued to people who bought insurance on a marketplace set up a state.

The decision is certain to be challenged by the Obama Administration, and does not immediately have the effect of law. But if it is ultimately upheld, it would cause insurance rates for those people who lost the subsidies to dramatically rise.

HealthCare.gov serves residents of the 36 states that did not create their own health insurance marketplace. About 86 percent of its 5.45 million customers received a subsidy to offset the cost of their coverage this year because they had low or moderate incomes.

In a report issued Thursday, the consultancy Avalere Health said that if those subsidies were removed this year from the 4.7 million people who received them in HealthCare.gov states, their premiums would have been an average of 76 percent higher in price than what they are paying now.

Another report by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation and the Urban Institute estimated that by 2016, about 7.3 million enrollees who would have qualified for financial assistance will be lose access to about $36.1 billion in subsidies if those court challenges succeed.

Before the decision, a leading Obamacare expert who was firmly opposed to the plantiffs' arguments said a ruling in their favor could have major consequences for the health-care reform law.

"If the courts were to decide that the Halbig plaintiffs were right, it would be a huge threat to the ACA," said that expert,Timothy Jost, a professor at the Washington and Lee University School of Law.

"It's a very big deal," said Ron Pollack, founder of the health-care consumers advocacy group Families USA, and Enroll America, a major Obamacare advocacy group.

Pollack noted that the more than 5 million people who have received subsidies via HealthCare.gov "would have them taken away."

"It certainly would cause a lot of people to rejoin the ranks of the uninsured," Pollack said. "The provision of the tax credit premium subsidy makes a huge difference in terms of whether people considering enrollment or enrolling in coverage will find such coverage affordable."

Last week, two analyses underscored the potential effects of the subsidies ultimately being deemed illegal.

The consultancy Avalere Health said people who currently receive such subsidies in the affected stateswould see their premium rates raise an average of 76 percent.

And the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation and the Urban Institute said that by 2016, about 7.3 million enrollees would lose about $36 billion in subsidies.

On Monday, one of the intellectual godfathers of the argument that is the basis of the Halbig case, as well as three other similar pending court challenges, said that tens of millions of people would be freed from Obamacare mandates in the affected states if the challenges prevailed.

Michael Cannon, director of health policy studies at the libertarian Cato Institute, said more than 250,000 firms in those states—which have about 57 million workers—would not be subject to the employer mandate being phased in starting next year. That rule, which hinges on the availability of subsidies on Obamacare exchanges, will compel employers with 50 or more full-time workers to offer affordable health insurance or pay a fine.

Courts could cause big Obamacare $$$ hike

And if the challenge prevail, a total of about 8.3 million individuals will be "free" of Obamacare's rule that they have health insurance or pay a fine equal to as much as 1 percent of their taxable income, said Cannon, who with law professor Jonathan Adler laid the groundwork for the challenges to the HealthCare.gov subsidies.

Oral arguments heard by a three-judge panel on that DC federal appeals court in March—when two of the judges appeared sympathetic to the plaintiffs—gave Halbig supporters renewed hope that their claim would succeed.
Read MoreWhat's really surprising about Hobby Lobby ruling

Halbig was the first of those cases decided at the appellate level.

In the other case that has been heard on appeal, one first filed in Virginia federal district court, the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals is expected to issue a ruling any day.

However, that circuit is widely expected to rule against the plaintiffs' claims challenging the legality of the Obamacare subsidies on HealthCare.gov.

--By CNBC's Dan Mangan


Dan ManganHealth Care Reporter

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101819065
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Old 07-24-2014, 11:36 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
GWB's approval rating dropped 10 points after Katrina. I offered it as an example of what a "failed presidency" actually looks like.

And thanks for conceding the rest of my points.
I wouldn't call Obamacare a win. And it looks like the majority of Americans wouldn't either. If that's the claim of success, you have a rather low threshold of the definition.
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Old 07-24-2014, 11:44 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
US finally has some form of UHC
Like I was saying. His "signature achievement" is falling apart piece by piece, and he has no other accomplishments of any significance.
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Old 07-24-2014, 12:00 PM   #93
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No war with Iran, avoiding at least overt intervention in Syria, not going back into that hell-hole called Iraq are some accomplishments imo and most of the American people. All depends on your ideology I guess whether or not something is an accomplishment.

Then there's his lawlessness regarding the Constitution's check and balances which are probably accomplishments to him and the left but hardly in the eyes of others.

I'd say his failings exceed any of his accomplishments overall imo.
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Old 07-24-2014, 12:43 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
I wouldn't call Obamacare a win. And it looks like the majority of Americans wouldn't either. If that's the claim of success, you have a rather low threshold of the definition.
There's only a majority because 17% oppose the law as being not liberal enough. A majority are for some form of UHC, even if they'd much rather see single payer vs. Obamacare. I'd hardly call that a big victory for the republican cause.

Also hint: people aren't generally very well-informed. When you poll them about all the individual pieces of Obamacare they tend to be for it a lot more than if you just ask them to give a thumbs up or thumbs down on "Obamacare". http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...E51V_blog.html

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* Eighty percent of Republicans favor “creating an insurance pool where small businesses and uninsured have access to insurance exchanges to take advantage of large group pricing benefits.” That’s backed by 75 percent of independents.

* Fifty-seven percent of Republicans support “providing subsidies on a sliding scale to aid individuals and families who cannot afford health insurance.” That’s backed by 67 percent of independents.

* Fifty-four percent of Republicans favor “requiring companies with more than 50 employees to provide insurance for their employers.” That’s backed by 75 percent of independents.

* Fifty two percent of Republicans favor “allowing children to stay on parents insurance until age 26.” That’s backed by 69 percent of independents.

* Seventy eight percent of Republicans support “banning insurance companies from denying coverage for pre-existing conditions; 86 percent of Republicans favor “banning insurance companies from cancelling policies because a person becomes ill.” Those are backed by 82 percent of independents and 87 percent of independents.

* One provision that isn’t backed by a majority of Republicans: The one “expanding Medicaid to families with incomes less than $30,000 per year.”
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Old 07-24-2014, 12:52 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
Like I was saying. His "signature achievement" is falling apart piece by piece, and he has no other accomplishments of any significance.
Except it's really not. It's more or less working as designed and going through standard gyrations of any gigantic piece of landmark legislation (albeit with unprecedented opposition at every turn). Health care costs are trending down and more people are insured in line with expecations: http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/defa...embargo_v2.pdf

You only perceive Obamacare is falling apart because you're hopelessly lost in the bubble and Stuart Varney tells you everything is in Chaos. Or drudge, or HCF posts, or whatever is your preferred method of bubble delivery.
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Old 07-24-2014, 12:57 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
There's only a majority because 17% oppose the law as being not liberal enough.
Sure, that works. Bang up job, Obama!
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Old 07-24-2014, 12:58 PM   #97
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Ugly numbers...
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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
US finally has some form of UHC a half a century after the rest of the developed world, no new stupid ground wars, stock market up over 100%, unemployment down from above 8% to below 6%, OBL dead, hurricane dealt with un-disasterously.

Yep utterly failed presidency. You might try stepping out of the bubble some time.
How much fail can a person pack into one post?

We've finally made our health care as shitty as the rest of the the world, we're being openly invaded on our southern boarder while ignoring our allies and governments we set in place, the stock market is completely ****ed and ready to pop again, more people are out of work and not looking than just about ever, more terrorist have risen and making bolder moves such as open war throughout the middle east and attacks on Americans that we refuse to defend (Benghazi), and he's created or linked to more problems & scandals than any other President in US history.

Not only is Obama the hands down worst president in the history of our country, but there is space reserved for years of presidents to come above him. Obama has done catastrophic harm to America and the black race around the world.
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Old 07-24-2014, 07:15 PM   #98
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OMG DERP overload. Again, seriously, pull out of the bubble sometime.
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Old 07-25-2014, 08:25 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
Like I was saying. His "signature achievement" is falling apart piece by piece, and he has no other accomplishments of any significance.


Osama dead
Got us out of Iraq
Getting us out of Afghanistan
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Old 07-25-2014, 08:31 AM   #100
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It is pretty impressive, really. That those things happened despite Obama being POTUS.

I give him credit and kudos for green lighting the UBL raid, though.
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Old 07-25-2014, 08:36 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Osama dead
Got us out of Iraq
Getting us out of Afghanistan
Any president would have given approval to the raid.

We're seeing how his unconditional withdrawal is working out now. Great accomplishment if you're ISIS.

Same thing will happen there if we leave for momentary political capital instead of those related to why we were there in the first place.
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Old 07-25-2014, 11:20 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
It is pretty impressive, really. That those things happened despite Obama being POTUS.
And you know this because… feelings?
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Old 07-25-2014, 11:57 AM   #103
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And you know this because… feelings?
Can you list anything that Obama has done which caused those things to happen?

Let's start with just one: What did he do to spur the Dow?
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Old 07-25-2014, 12:32 PM   #104
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Can you list anything that Obama has done which caused those things to happen?

Let's start with just one: What did he do to spur the Dow?
A stimulus that helped prevent another depression.

Next question.
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Old 07-25-2014, 12:35 PM   #105
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A stimulus that helped prevent another depression.

Next question.
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