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Old 03-17-2014, 06:14 PM  
Tribal Warfare Tribal Warfare is offline
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Scientists find cosmic ripples from birth of universe

Scientists find cosmic ripples from birth of universe

Published March 17, 2014


Astronomers have discovered what they believe is the first direct evidence of the astonishing expansion of the universe in the instant following the Big Bang -- the scientific explanation for the birth of the universe some 13.8 billion years ago.

Scientists believe that the universe exploded from a tiny speck and hurled itself out in all directions in the fraction of a second that followed, beginning just 10 to the minus 35 seconds (roughly one trillionth of a trillionth of a trillionth of a second) after the universe's birth. Matter ultimately coalesced hundreds of millions of years later into planets, stars, and ultimately us.

And like ripples from a ball kicked into a pond, that Big Bang-fueled expansion caused ripples in the ancient light from that event, light which remains imprinted in the skies in a leftover glow called the cosmic microwave background.

Scientists still don’t know who kicked the ball.

But if confirmed, the newfound ripples would be amazing proof of what has long been mere theory about what happened in those first millionths of a second.

“The implications for this detection stagger the mind,” said Jamie Bock, professor of physics at Caltech, laboratory senior research scientist at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) and project co-leader. “We are measuring a signal that comes from the dawn of time.”

"It would be the most important discovery since the discovery, I think, that the expansion of the universe is accelerating," Harvard astronomer Avi Loeb, who is not a member of the study team, told Space.com. He compared the finding to a 1998 observation that opened the window on mysterious dark energy and won three researchers the 2011 Nobel Prize in physics.

The groundbreaking results came from observations by BICEP2, a telescope at the South Pole, of the cosmic microwave background -- a faint glow left over from the Big Bang.

Beginning a fraction of a fraction of a second after the universe's birth, according to the current theory, space-time expanded incredibly rapidly, ballooning outward faster than the speed of light. The afterglow from that expansion is called the cosmic microwave background, and tiny fluctuations in it provide clues to conditions in the early universe.

For example, small differences in temperature across the sky show where parts of the universe were denser, eventually condensing into galaxies and galactic clusters.

Since the cosmic microwave background is a form of light, it exhibits all the properties of light, including polarization. On Earth, sunlight is scattered by the atmosphere and becomes polarized, which is why polarized sunglasses help reduce glare. In space, the cosmic microwave background was scattered by atoms and electrons and became polarized too.

“Our team hunted for a special type of polarization called ‘B-modes,’ which represents a twisting or ‘curl’ pattern in the polarized orientations of the ancient light,” said Bock.

The team presented their work at a press conference Monda at Harvard -- the discovery of that characteristic pattern of polarization in the skies, which they called proof of the gravitational waves across the primordial sky.

“This work offers new insights into some of our most basic questions: Why do we exist? How did the universe begin? These results are not only a smoking gun for inflation, they also tell us when inflation took place and how powerful the process was,” Harvard theorist Avi Loeb said.
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Old 03-19-2014, 03:22 AM   #121
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Could be, and realism is harsh enough to probably confirm it.

The thought of being special though, is unique to humans, poetry, love (sex for pleasure not just procreation). The extras over and beyond just animalistic instincts to survive or live.

Dogs have been companions to mankind since the written word, yet humans have dreamt and see the dreams fullfilled; air travel, internal combustion, jet propulsion, travel to the moon, see the ripples created by the birth of the universe on a telescope.....

It's hard to accept some realities, but humans not having a special quality and are just like any other animal, not true.

Does that mean any of the religions are right? I didn't say that....
What do we possess that is unique to us? We are gifted in that evolution fell our way, but there's nothing in us that isn't a chemical predisposition that is imposed on us through the transfer of genetic material. The transfer of that material was made possible because it aided our survival for long enough to allow us to pass our genes on.

If you can accept that and a higher being, kudos, you believe what I do. If you can't I repeat, kudos, I can't speak for you.
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Old 03-19-2014, 04:37 AM   #122
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What do we possess that is unique to us? We are gifted in that evolution fell our way, but there's nothing in us that isn't a chemical predisposition that is imposed on us through the transfer of genetic material. The transfer of that material was made possible because it aided our survival for long enough to allow us to pass our genes on.

If you can accept that and a higher being, kudos, you believe what I do. If you can't I repeat, kudos, I can't speak for you.
My point is in the same quantifiable thousands of years of evolution in humans/mankind is measurable, dogs not so much.

So it's easy to correlate that "evolution" into "special" qualities. Now is that just happenstance, primortal sludge going our way, or a devine design. We don't know, we think either science or religion points respective directions but in truth we just don't know.

It could be one or the other, maybe something we haven't thought of or "discovered" yet, or some combination of those. So we mask this primal ignorance into beliefs; of religion or science or some combination, so we can "explain" the truth we can't even comprehend (or may be ever able to comprehend)
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Old 03-19-2014, 04:38 AM   #123
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Oh and iirc penguins are the only other mammal having sex for pleasure. Or so scientists say....
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Old 03-19-2014, 06:40 AM   #124
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The thought of wanting o be special is somewhat unique to humans. All other emotions you listed including sex for pleasure are demonstrated by members of the animal kingdom. Oh yeah and they dream too, they just don't have opposable thumbs to be able to build stuff.
We're back off topic.

But, that's not true. There is a ton that the human mind is capable of that no other creature has. Humans, more importantly the human mind is the coolest thing ever.
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Old 03-19-2014, 06:47 AM   #125
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This thread sums up why the midwest sucks and why our country is far behind others in science and mathematics.

Science and religion are not mutually exclusive. The big difference that I see is exactly what you saw with Nye vs Ham.

You give Nye evidence and you can change his mind. You give Ham evidence and he points to a book written thousands of years ago and refuses to accept your evidence.
Bill Nye wouldn't know evidence if it hit him in the face. The fact that people cling to him as a spokesman for "science" is hilarious.

Put this thread in DC where it belongs.
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Old 03-19-2014, 07:01 AM   #126
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Bill Nye wouldn't know evidence if it hit him in the face. The fact that people cling to him as a spokesman for "science" is hilarious.

Put this thread in DC where it belongs.
I agree, with the DC part.
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Old 03-19-2014, 08:49 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
I guess reading is not your thing. It's been explained 3-4 times in this very thread. So I'll assume you don't want to discuss it.
No, it hasn't been explained at all. You did a few early posts about the quantifiable measurement of time which did not exist before the big bang:

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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
If anybody ever cares to check on it, you should google what's called Planck time you will find amazing things happening in time iso small it's almost immeasurable. That's what they're talking about in the video and what the guy was talking about in the other video about billions of trillionths of trillionths of seconds when you get down to a certain level it's called Planck time.

If you have a scientific mind you will be amazed.
This doesn't answer the question of how something came out of nothing. Then you say:

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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
Planck's time is the time it takes for light to travel Planck's length. Actions across lengths less than this boundary have no meaning because distance/relativity stop and quantum mechanics take over at Planck's length. The smallest length (Planck's length) divided by the fastest speed (the speed of light), is the time it takes for the fastest thing to travel the shortest distance. Thus, times shorter than Planck's time do not make sense.
Guess what, time and energy (light) and space did not exist before the big bang, so this post does not address how everything came out of nothing. Do you even understand what nothing is?

Here's the same question by another poster:

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Originally Posted by TripleThreat View Post
So what made the tiny speck that created the universe? Where did it come from? Haha
Then you post this which does not answer the question of the big bang, but is more of a philosophical discussion on how the universe came into existence:

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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
Probably. There is some photographic evidence that supports it. I can't imagine this is the only universe. I'm kind of partial to the bubble multiverse.

Bubble Universes...

That's pretty, but completely useless. Thanks for nothing, again. Then you post this:

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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
Absolutely. It's mans greatest achievements that we have come to discover things so vastly far away and those so vastly small as well. I can't imagine anything more interesting or awe inspiring. I saw a quasar 10 billion light years away. Thats

6,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 miles away. Thats impressive in my book.
Again, this has nothing to do with how the big bang started. Then there is this 2 hour video which is nothing but conjecture and more philosphical discussion than it is hard science:

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Originally Posted by DRU View Post
Lawrence Krauss has answers to that.

"Krauss's latest book, A Universe from Nothing: Why There is Something Rather than Nothing, explains the scientific advances that provide insight into how the universe formed. Krauss tackles the age-old assumption that something cannot arise from nothing by arguing that not only can something arise from nothing, but something will always arise from nothing."

This is where Krauss likes to talk about magic, that is, the creation of something (or everything) from nothing. Of couse, this breaks every single scientific law and is complete speculation based more on faith than on facts, hard science and provable theories, it's a discussion on magic. You won't call it that but people like me who have common sense see it for what it is, a discussion on magic.
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Old 03-19-2014, 08:54 AM   #128
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Here's another question........what is the universe expanding in to? What was here before?
yep, how can an expanding universe be expanding into nothing?
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:04 AM   #129
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Could be, and realism is harsh enough to probably confirm it.

The thought of being special though, is unique to humans, poetry, love (sex for pleasure not just procreation). The extras over and beyond just animalistic instincts to survive or live.

Dogs have been companions to mankind since the written word, yet humans have dreamt and see the dreams fullfilled; air travel, internal combustion, jet propulsion, travel to the moon, see the ripples created by the birth of the universe on a telescope.....

It's hard to accept some realities, but humans not having a special quality and are just like any other animal, not true.

Does that mean any of the religions are right? I didn't say that....
Sex for pleasure isn't unique to humans by any means. If you include masturbation, there are many many species that participate in sexual pleasure for fun. Porcupines masturbate with sticks. Bonobo females exchange sex for food, prostitution style. Groups of male dolphins often capture a concubine female and continuously rape her up without allowing her to escape. They also capture and rape baby seals sometimes, just for giggles.

All throughout the animal kingdom there are other animals that do most everything that humans do. In most cases, they do it better. The mantis shrimp has eyes that completely put human eyes to shame by a huge huge margin. Most underwater species have better vision that humans. Human strength is nothing compared to other similar sized species. We're slower than most other species.

Every animal is uniquely special in some way. Humans simply have a deeper intellect than others. And if we look back at our evolutionary history, we can even pinpoint the time in the past where we reached that intellect. We can see when we figured out how to use fire, how to use tools, how to hunt using teamwork, etc. The interesting thing is that we can see other species in their own stages of learning these things. We can see other birds and mammals using tools, using teamwork. We can see the process in action.

Humans certainly have a special quality. Just like all the other animals.
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:12 AM   #130
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Sex for pleasure isn't unique to humans by any means. If you include masturbation, there are many many species that participate in sexual pleasure for fun. Porcupines masturbate with sticks. Bonobo females exchange sex for food, prostitution style. Groups of male dolphins often capture a concubine female and continuously rape her up without allowing her to escape. They also capture and rape baby seals sometimes, just for giggles.

All throughout the animal kingdom there are other animals that do most everything that humans do. In most cases, they do it better. The mantis shrimp has eyes that completely put human eyes to shame by a huge huge margin. Most underwater species have better vision that humans. Human strength is nothing compared to other similar sized species. We're slower than most other species.

Every animal is uniquely special in some way. Humans simply have a deeper intellect than others. And if we look back at our evolutionary history, we can even pinpoint the time in the past where we reached that intellect. We can see when we figured out how to use fire, how to use tools, how to hunt using teamwork, etc. The interesting thing is that we can see other species in their own stages of learning these things. We can see other birds and mammals using tools, using teamwork. We can see the process in action.

Humans certainly have a special quality. Just like all the other animals.
Humans can ask questions and have a much, much, much more profound way of communicating. This thread is a perfect example, your post is a perfect example. Humans can talk about things like facts and fiction, reality and magic and ask questions like "where do I come from, how does the universe work?"
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:19 AM   #131
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This is where Krauss likes to talk about magic, that is, the creation of something (or everything) from nothing. Of couse, this breaks every single scientific law and is complete speculation based more on faith than on facts, hard science and provable theories, it's a discussion on magic. You won't call it that but people like me who have common sense see it for what it is, a discussion on magic.
There was a time, just a few hundred years ago, when people didn't understand what made humans sick. They blamed it on silly things like punishment from God, witchcraft, contact with dead animals, bad air, etc. Then someone came along and proposed that there were tiny microscopic creatures too small to see, that were invading the human body and causing sickness. This was overwhelmingly met with the same denial you're showing here. People refused to believe it could be possible. There was no proof. It was a discussion on magic.

Yesterday's magic often becomes tomorrow's science.
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:22 AM   #132
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Humans accumulate knowledge over generations. Learning, not just from own own past, but that of our ancestors is a special thing.
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:22 AM   #133
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There was a time, just a few hundred years ago, when people didn't understand what made humans sick. They blamed it on silly things like punishment from God, witchcraft, contact with dead animals, bad air, etc. Then someone came along and proposed that there were tiny microscopic creatures too small to see, that were invading the human body and causing sickness. This was overwhelmingly met with the same denial you're showing here. People refused to believe it could be possible. There was no proof. It was a discussion on magic.

Yesterday's magic often becomes tomorrow's science.
You're talking about god of the gaps.
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:25 AM   #134
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Humans can ask questions and have a much, much, much more profound way of communicating. This thread is a perfect example, your post is a perfect example. Humans can talk about things like facts and fiction, reality and magic and ask questions like "where do I come from, how does the universe work?"
Other species also communicate directly. Dolphins have names for each other. Elephants have a specific call to warn each other of humans. And surprisingly a specific call to warn of bees. Elephants hate bees. Ants communicate through the use of chemical pheromones, and they display complex colonies where everyone has a specific job function, and they can communicate things like where food is, where danger is, and many more things even we can't understand. You could argue that ants have a more efficient communication method than humans do.
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:29 AM   #135
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Boy, this thread went from "Wow, cool...science!" to DC in no time.
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