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Old 02-23-2014, 04:19 PM  
petegz28 petegz28 is online now
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Al Gore brings climate change message to Kansas City

Al Gore has been known for his climate change warnings since the 2006 film “An Inconvenient Truth.”

But the former vice president, speaking Saturday in Kansas City, cited many more recent examples how heavy use of fossil fuels is contributing to extreme weather events and trends, in his view.

Gore filled a Westin Crown Center ballroom with a 90-minute presentation, using photos and videos to illustrate a litany of floods, wildfires, torrential rains, droughts, dust storms, rising sea levels and increasing world temperatures.

To those attending the Folk Alliance International conference, he noted examples of flooding in locations both remote and closer to home, such as in Manitou Springs, Colo., where high water barreled down mountain highways last year, carrying cars along with it.

“They had never seen anything like this in Manitou Springs,” Gore said.

He cited the possibility of how flooding in Pakistan could destabilize that country, a nuclear power, and the possible effect that continuing drought in California might have on the world’s food supply.

“Think about that,” he said. “The Dust Bowl is coming back, quickly, unless we act.”

Gore presented animation from his 2006 film depicting water pushing into the streets of lower Manhattan — much mocked at the time, Gore said — followed by images of water filling New York City subway tunnels during Hurricane Sandy in October 2012.

Gore conceded the possible fatigue some may have with his warnings, as well as the possible sense of powerlessness as to what any one individual can do to affect what appear to be vast, unchangeable trends.

“Do we really have to do this and — if the answer is yes — can we do it?” Gore said, repeating two questions he routinely hears.

“The answer to both of those questions — spoiler alert — is ‘yes.’ ”

Gore cited what he considered the increasing momentum with which renewable energy technologies such as wind and solar power have been embraced.

Just as one telephone company study 25 years ago underestimated the huge increase in the use of cellphones, estimates on the acceptance of wind and solar technology also have been conservative, Gore said.

Among the countries or states turning to renewable energy strategies, Gore mentioned the Vatican’s increasing use of solar technology. Vatican City, Gore said, wants to be the first CO2-neutral sovereign city-state in the world.

“They have two advantages,” Gore said. “It is very small, and they have God on their side.”

He urged his listeners to act on an individual basis.

“The one missing ingredient may well be you, no kidding,” he said.

And, given how he was addressing a room filled with folk music admirers, Gore framed his remarks with references to two singers: Bob Dylan and the late Pete Seeger. Reciting a phrase from “The Times They Are a-Changin’ ” and later invoking Seeger’s memory, Gore urged those in attendance to write songs and spread a renewable energy message “all over this land.”

Folk music, he added, “played a positive role in resolving the central question in civil rights, as to what was truly right and truly wrong.”

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2014/02/22...#storylink=cpy
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Old 02-24-2014, 07:20 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by cdcox View Post
This part?

A crash in the price of thin-film technology in the U.S. and elsewhere in recent years has beset still other firms and paved the way for Li to swoop in at vulture prices.
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Old 02-24-2014, 07:34 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
This part?

A crash in the price of thin-film technology in the U.S. and elsewhere in recent years has beset still other firms and paved the way for Li to swoop in at vulture prices.
That is probably the key sentence.

Here's the part about a drop in US investment and subsidies in this sector:

http://www.pv-magazine.com/news/deta...#axzz2uITaLn7Q
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Old 02-24-2014, 07:34 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Good, now that you've settled down. That was the type of reaction that I'd expect from a devout Muslim thinking I'd drawn a naughty picture of Muhammad...

I've just noticed that over the last few years, most news stories about this type of thing use climate change instead of global warming like they used to be.

That's pretty much it.

I doubt that I'm alone in noticing this.
Most deniers claim that they notice this but I haven't seen any data.
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Old 02-24-2014, 07:42 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by cdcox View Post
I agree that the solution pathway out of this situation will rely heavily on better methods of energy conversion. However, this illustrates the real harm of denier mentality. The US government invested a lot of money in various forms of more efficient energy conversion. One of those was solar energy. Some of those companies were making legitimate progress (I'm not talking about Solyndra here). Basically the deniers soured the political environment for continuing subsidies for adopting solar power. Without the subsidies the US market collapsed. Billions of $ of solar technology were then sold to the Chinese for pennies on the dollar.

Other countries are still installing new solar energy. The amount of installed solar is projected to double or triple over the next 6 years. We flushed money down the toilet, gave away much of our competitive innovations, and have effectively pulled out of a future technology because politics rooted in disinformation.
I am a denier (as you call it) of "man made" climate change warming or cooling or whatever the whackobirds claim this week. I also have a 9.8 kw solar array (38 panels) on my roof . Solar makes sense in parts of California because of the amount of sunshine and the crazy cost of electricity in some markets of California ($750 summertime electricity bill) . The panels cost $39k minus a 11k tax credit and I hope to break even in something like 12 - 15 Years. The technology has been around for well over 30 years and the yield is better, but compared to other tech, progress has been slow despite a ton of money and tax credits being thrown at solar. Energy storage on the other hand has progressed rapidly.
Solar power doesn't make sense in markets with reasonable electricity rates and crappy weather.
We have 1000+ years of good old cheap fossil fuels in this country. Eventually technology will probably advance solar or fusion or some other generation method to a yield, price point that fossil fuel extraction becomes pointless. Until then, suppressing the economy with high costs of energy is simply defeating.
Here's some irony for you. My 20 yr old son is going to school at DeVry and studying electronic engineering with a major in renewable energy.
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Old 02-24-2014, 07:51 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Who was that?
Luntz

http://www.motherjones.com/files/Lun...nvironment.pdf


Now go out and check the echo chambers insistence by Republicans to use Climate Change right after this memo. Some guys are even caught on tape correcting themselves. It was how the very scientific term was introduced to the general public discussion. Thanks.
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Old 02-24-2014, 07:52 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by cdcox View Post
I agree that the solution pathway out of this situation will rely heavily on better methods of energy conversion. However, this illustrates the real harm of denier mentality. The US government invested a lot of money in various forms of more efficient energy conversion. One of those was solar energy. Some of those companies were making legitimate progress (I'm not talking about Solyndra here). Basically the deniers soured the political environment for continuing subsidies for adopting solar power. Without the subsidies the US market collapsed. Billions of $ of solar technology were then sold to the Chinese for pennies on the dollar.

Other countries are still installing new solar energy. The amount of installed solar is projected to double or triple over the next 6 years. We flushed money down the toilet, gave away much of our competitive innovations, and have effectively pulled out of a future technology because politics rooted in disinformation.
Solar isn't ready for prime time due to cost/efficiency issues but I'm all for the continued research there. I just have serious doubts that it will ever be more than a "bridge" technology while we develop fusion. Fusion is the real deal and hopefully with recent breakthroughs the politicians in the US will start to take it seriously.
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Old 02-24-2014, 07:55 PM   #127
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That creepy-looking pollster guy?
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Old 02-24-2014, 07:55 PM   #128
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Old 02-24-2014, 07:57 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by cdcox View Post
That is probably the key sentence.

Here's the part about a drop in US investment and subsidies in this sector:

http://www.pv-magazine.com/news/deta...#axzz2uITaLn7Q
How much has the efficiency in PV increased over the years where heavy subsidies were attached? They are still terribly inefficient, right?
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Old 02-24-2014, 07:57 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
That creepy-looking pollster guy?
I don't look at his pictures. You will have to comment on his looks.
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Old 02-24-2014, 07:58 PM   #131
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I don't look at his pictures. You will have to comment on his looks.
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:02 PM   #132
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Most deniers claim that they notice this but I haven't seen any data.
Out of curiosity, how do you label yourself? A "believer"?
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:02 PM   #133
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How much has the efficiency in PV increased over the years where heavy subsidies were attached? They are still terribly inefficient, right?
That depends on your perspective. The efficiency in the lab or production? Efficiency in pure energy terms or are you looking at the economic factors?

Proponents will (rightfully) point to massive gains that have been made (mostly in the lab) but opponents will point out that they still aren't a particular viable energy source yet.

EDIT: "Opponents" isn't really the right word, I don't think there are many people AGAINST solar energy... just those who recognize its current limitations and costs.
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:04 PM   #134
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How much has the efficiency in PV increased over the years where heavy subsidies were attached? They are still terribly inefficient, right?
So why are you looking at efficiencies? How much efficiency is there in getting all the oil out of some field? The question is there capability to meet need.

I choose mixed medium. Instead of waging wars of destruction it makes more sense to finance geothermal for heating and cooling. Using wind and solar for lighting and such. And use fossil fuel for the difference with a necessity to drop overall CO 2 production.

The big mistake is old economic models that sees efficiencies as drop in National Product. It is for a particularly invested industry but not necessarily for a individuals financial positive movement.
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:06 PM   #135
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That depends on your perspective. The efficiency in the lab or production? Efficiency in pure energy terms or are you looking at the economic factors?

Proponents will (rightfully) point to massive gains that have been made (mostly in the lab) but opponents will point out that they still aren't a particular viable energy source yet.
Pure energy terms. I realize that lab results are interesting but this is a classic case of needing a real-world result beyond it, too.

Last I looked at PV, the efficiency was something like ~20%. Has that improved at all?
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