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Old 02-23-2014, 04:19 PM  
petegz28 petegz28 is online now
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Al Gore brings climate change message to Kansas City

Al Gore has been known for his climate change warnings since the 2006 film “An Inconvenient Truth.”

But the former vice president, speaking Saturday in Kansas City, cited many more recent examples how heavy use of fossil fuels is contributing to extreme weather events and trends, in his view.

Gore filled a Westin Crown Center ballroom with a 90-minute presentation, using photos and videos to illustrate a litany of floods, wildfires, torrential rains, droughts, dust storms, rising sea levels and increasing world temperatures.

To those attending the Folk Alliance International conference, he noted examples of flooding in locations both remote and closer to home, such as in Manitou Springs, Colo., where high water barreled down mountain highways last year, carrying cars along with it.

“They had never seen anything like this in Manitou Springs,” Gore said.

He cited the possibility of how flooding in Pakistan could destabilize that country, a nuclear power, and the possible effect that continuing drought in California might have on the world’s food supply.

“Think about that,” he said. “The Dust Bowl is coming back, quickly, unless we act.”

Gore presented animation from his 2006 film depicting water pushing into the streets of lower Manhattan — much mocked at the time, Gore said — followed by images of water filling New York City subway tunnels during Hurricane Sandy in October 2012.

Gore conceded the possible fatigue some may have with his warnings, as well as the possible sense of powerlessness as to what any one individual can do to affect what appear to be vast, unchangeable trends.

“Do we really have to do this and — if the answer is yes — can we do it?” Gore said, repeating two questions he routinely hears.

“The answer to both of those questions — spoiler alert — is ‘yes.’ ”

Gore cited what he considered the increasing momentum with which renewable energy technologies such as wind and solar power have been embraced.

Just as one telephone company study 25 years ago underestimated the huge increase in the use of cellphones, estimates on the acceptance of wind and solar technology also have been conservative, Gore said.

Among the countries or states turning to renewable energy strategies, Gore mentioned the Vatican’s increasing use of solar technology. Vatican City, Gore said, wants to be the first CO2-neutral sovereign city-state in the world.

“They have two advantages,” Gore said. “It is very small, and they have God on their side.”

He urged his listeners to act on an individual basis.

“The one missing ingredient may well be you, no kidding,” he said.

And, given how he was addressing a room filled with folk music admirers, Gore framed his remarks with references to two singers: Bob Dylan and the late Pete Seeger. Reciting a phrase from “The Times They Are a-Changin’ ” and later invoking Seeger’s memory, Gore urged those in attendance to write songs and spread a renewable energy message “all over this land.”

Folk music, he added, “played a positive role in resolving the central question in civil rights, as to what was truly right and truly wrong.”

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2014/02/22...#storylink=cpy
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:08 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by tiptap View Post
So why are you looking at efficiencies? How much efficiency is there in getting all the oil out of some field? The question is there capability to meet need.

I choose mixed medium. Instead of waging wars of destruction it makes more sense to finance geothermal for heating and cooling. Using wind and solar for lighting and such. And use fossil fuel for the difference with a necessity to drop overall CO 2 production.

The big mistake is old economic models that sees efficiencies as drop in National Product. It is for a particularly invested industry but not necessarily for a individuals financial positive movement.
Because efficiency is important? We use gasoline in our cars because it's very efficient in both economical and in terms of energy/unit.

Don't get me wrong; I'm all for ALL forms of alternative energy.
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:08 PM   #137
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Solar isn't ready for prime time due to cost/efficiency issues but I'm all for the continued research there. I just have serious doubts that it will ever be more than a "bridge" technology while we develop fusion. Fusion is the real deal and hopefully with recent breakthroughs the politicians in the US will start to take it seriously.
Fusion has been just 50 years away for the last 50 years.
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:09 PM   #138
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Out of curiosity, how do you label yourself? A "believer"?
When I first began discussing this on this site over ten year ago, Cdcox was one of my most vocal critics. It changed because he is both honest and a scientist. As oppose to you who has whiffed on a lot of scientific thinking. Remember how you don't understand Newtonian Physics? That was sometime ago. Memory is convenient.
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:11 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by tiptap View Post
When I first began discussing this on this site over ten year ago, Cdcox was one of my most vocal critics. It changed because he is both honest and a scientist. As oppose to you who has whiffed on a lot of scientific thinking. Remember how you don't understand Newtonian Physics? That was sometime ago. Memory is convenient.
No, I don't remember that.

So, what's your answer? A "knower"?
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:12 PM   #140
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Because efficiency is important? We use gasoline in our cars because it's very efficient in both economical and in terms of energy/unit.

Don't get me wrong; I'm all for ALL forms of alternative energy.
Or there is a great deal of existing infrastructure in place that weighs as a history precedent but has then deny the potential adverse effects. You want to deny the efficiency of adding Greenhouse Gases.
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:12 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
LOL @ solar energy.
Pretty stupid to laugh that anything that is growing exponentially.
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:13 PM   #142
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After the conference, he promptly hopped into his G5 jet and flew home to his 11tybillion square foot mansion.
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:14 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Pure energy terms. I realize that lab results are interesting but this is a classic case of needing a real-world result beyond it, too.

Last I looked at PV, the efficiency was something like ~20%. Has that improved at all?
Um try 12-15% for average efficiency for cells in production now. (You have higher ratings for some ridiculously expensive commercial cells.)

I am a supporter of solar RESEARCH and there is definite progress there, but large scale deployment of our current tech is a massive waste of money.
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:14 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by cdcox View Post
Fusion has been just 50 years away for the last 50 years.
I'm going to guess that you don't follow the field because that's an incredibly ignorant take on the subject. Especially given recent advances that I admittedly was off on my predicted timing of.. but not terribly far off and that was in the face of budget cuts.
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:15 PM   #145
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Or there is a great deal of existing infrastructure in place that weighs as a history precedent but has then deny the potential adverse effects.
Sure, there's a bunch of existing infrastructure, because gasoline was and is the most efficient method of powering our vehicles. If something else comes along that is more efficient and costs less, I'm all for it.

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You want to deny the efficiency of adding Greenhouse Gases.
What?
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:15 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Because efficiency is important? We use gasoline in our cars because it's very efficient in both economical and in terms of energy/unit.

Don't get me wrong; I'm all for ALL forms of alternative energy.
What percent efficiency is gasoline when used to power an internal combustion engine?
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:15 PM   #147
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Um try 12-15% for average efficiency for cells in production now. (You have higher ratings for some ridiculously expensive commercial cells.)

I am a supporter of solar RESEARCH and there is definite progress there, but large scale deployment of our current tech is a massive waste of money.
Ugh. That's a damn shame.
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:16 PM   #148
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No, I don't remember that.

So, what's your answer? A "knower"?
The body of knowledge requires prudence. I am prudent. It is prudent to understand that science gives us the most likely outcome. But that means that there is a 50% chance that the outcome will be worse. That is how science gives its results. It isn't given like insurance underwriters for the worst outcome.

I do fall on the side of expecting worse because the fossil fuel industries wants to increase not even pause. Not prudent in any sense.
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:16 PM   #149
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What percent efficiency is gasoline when used to power an internal combustion engine?
Something like 30%, IIRC.
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:17 PM   #150
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I'm going to guess that you don't follow the field because that's an incredibly ignorant take on the subject.
I don't, but it is an often quoted adage.

What is the current time estimate on its commercial viability?
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