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Old 09-25-2013, 03:54 AM  
|Zach| |Zach| is offline
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The Double Absurdity of Ted Cruz's 'Filibuster'

Why the senator's last stand against Obamacare just doesn't make sense.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...buster/279959/

Who says Republicans and Democrats can't agree on anything? These days, they are largely united in their loathing for Ted Cruz, the pugnacious Republican freshman senator from Texas. On Tuesday afternoon, Cruz took the floor of the Senate and vowed to speak as long as he could stand. (His colleague Mike Lee has already taken a turn at the podium.)

For procedural reasons, Cruz's remarks, however long, do not constitute a true filibuster; the vote to move forward with government-funding legislation is scheduled to begin after noon on Wednesday and will go forward regardless. Twitter quickly dubbed his stand a "fauxlibuster" or -- perfect for its invocation of vacuous, feel-good nonsense-speech -- a "Ted Talk." Invoking the Nazis, the Soviet Union, and the Little Engine That Could, Cruz styled himself the lone crusader for right against a formidably equipped enemy.

Nearly to a one, Republicans want to get rid of Obamacare. But most also worry Cruz's defund crusade will lead to a government shutdown that hurts the GOP politically. Leaving aside the policy or even the political advisability of Cruz's undertaking, though, there are a couple of basic logical problems with what he's trying to do, as the conservative writer David Freddoso pointed out on the Conservative Intelligence Briefing website on Sunday.

1. He's trying to block the same bill he says he wants to pass. Cruz and his fellow defunders pushed the Republican-controlled House of Representatives to pass a bill funding the federal government but stopping funding for health-care-reform implementation. The House obeyed and passed the bill on Friday. But now that the Senate is considering the bill, Cruz wants to prevent it from being voted on. "If you’re really interested in putting pressure on Democrats to heed their constituents and vote to defund Obamacare, then you make them take the very vote that Cruz is trying to prevent from happening," Freddoso writes.

2. Shutting down the government wouldn't stop Obamacare. On Fox News on Friday, Cruz proposed passing piecemeal funding bills for "different pieces of the government," such as the military, implying Congress could fund other government functions while omitting Obamacare. But that's wrong -- the money for Obamacare isn't at stake in the continuing resolution currently under consideration. It's "mandatory" spending, akin to Medicare and Social Security, and would require action by Congress to revoke. "I’m convinced that most conservatives who have bought into [Cruz's] strategy have been misled to believe we can hold off Obamacare for a while with a government shutdown," Freddoso writes. "Obamacare is already funded, and that won’t change if this bill gets stalled by a filibuster. During the shutdown, the Marines don’t get paid, but Obamacare gets funded."

Conservatives can cheer Cruz for grabbing the nation's attention and giving an impassioned, high-profile speech. But, Freddoso argues, they shouldn't pretend this is a practical step toward stalling legislation they hate. As he wrote in another post: "This plan is right out of Alice in Wonderland. You need to prevent a vote on defunding Obamacare in order to defund Obamacare." Good luck with that, Senator.
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Old 09-25-2013, 10:54 AM   #46
dirk digler dirk digler is offline
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
I see that too. But you said my post wasn't accurate. Why did you say that when your link doesn't even disprove it?
From reading your post it was stated in NH the cheapest policy is $398. It is doesn't look like that is the case. You can get a Catastrophic Plan for $157. You can get a bronze plan for $186. Unless I am misunderstanding what you are saying.

Kaiser has a tool to calculate what you can expect to pay if you bought from the Exchanges.

http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/
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Old 09-25-2013, 10:56 AM   #47
Cephalic Trauma Cephalic Trauma is offline
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Do your own homework, twit. Besides, it's incumbent on him to disprove my statement, not for me to disprove his rebuttal. That's how debate works. Get a clue.
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Old 09-25-2013, 11:02 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
Do your own homework, twit. Besides, it's incumbent on him to disprove my statement, not for me to disprove his rebuttal. That's how debate works. Get a clue.
OK, it looks to me like you lost this debate. As far as I can tell from the information presented, he proved you wrong.
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Old 09-25-2013, 11:05 AM   #49
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Cruz is a windbag that talks dishonest nonsense for the sake of publicity and fund-raising.

He is just trying to raise money from stoopid people that do not know anything.

Anybody that thinks he is right should send him more money.
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Old 09-25-2013, 11:08 AM   #50
|Zach| |Zach| is offline
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
Do your own homework, twit. Besides, it's incumbent on him to disprove my statement, not for me to disprove his rebuttal. That's how debate works. Get a clue.
You and your party are a perfect fit for each other.
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Old 09-25-2013, 11:09 AM   #51
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Seriously Zach. Don't be stupid. I'd like to think you aren't but posts like this are ardent attempts at proving me wrong. Please don't prove me wrong. Don't become a blowfish, who posts worthless shit and runs away.
Say what???

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Old 09-25-2013, 11:15 AM   #52
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I understand the Democrats who are trying to miscast this as some form of folly, but what truly boggles me are the Republicans who are coming out to bash on Cruz. I listen to Morning Joe nearly every single day, and Scarborough is unhinged over Cruz and takes every chance he can get to bust on him. I can't help but laugh at how out of touch Joe ends up being with the Republican base as he does it. Cruz is coming out looking like a fighter worth backing - a guy that the Republican base can get behind.

And who does Joe think is better? What other young leaders is Joe getting behind?
Well, your first mistake was in assuming that Joe is Republican. Or at least he is a progressive, not conservative at all.
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Old 09-25-2013, 11:16 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by |Zach| View Post
We are sparking revolt here. Keep up.

Or so I hear.
Harry's getting in on it too. He'll do great as the next Mr. Rogers.
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One of my favorite things that I really like to do in Nevada and here, in Washington, is go grocery shopping. It's such a diversion for me. I love going grocery shopping to look around, buy the things. Landra and I are without our children and our grandchildren. We live alone. But we still buy food. And I enjoy that so very, very much.

So I know, have a good idea how much $4 will buy or $4.50 to be specific. That's not money to buy ... a pound of hamburger. They have different grades of hamburger. They have the expensive kind, not so expensive and the cheaper kind. Even the cheaper kind you couldn't buy a pound of that most of the time. A gallon of milk (is) about $4. You couldn't buy them both the same day. It's possible to (make) important reforms in both the farm and food stamp programs without balancing the budget on the backs of people who are hungry.
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Old 09-25-2013, 11:34 AM   #54
Prison Bitch Prison Bitch is offline
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
From reading your post it was stated in NH the cheapest policy is $398. It is doesn't look like that is the case. You can get a Catastrophic Plan for $157. You can get a bronze plan for $186. Unless I am misunderstanding what you are saying.

Kaiser has a tool to calculate what you can expect to pay if you bought from the Exchanges.


A, nobody was talking about catastrophic policies.


B, your link doesn't address the hypothetical income level of $35k that was presented
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Old 09-25-2013, 11:42 AM   #55
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The thing that is escaping people is that the only thing that will ever happen to the ACA is bi-partisan reform and revision. That is the case even if the GOP had majorities in both houses and the Presidency.

Anybody that thinks that the insurance lobby, the hospital conglomerate lobby, the medical lobby and the chamber of commerce would just let the apple cart be upset by politicians that they persuade to do what they want is naive as can be.

Once the SCOTUS did not rule the law unconstitutional, there is no realistic way to wipe out a law written by powerful lobbyists that persuade both parties what to do. And I don't mean to say that it is corruption, those various interests would all start to focus on why the ACA is the best way to go.

All of this GOP posturing is tolerated because it is clear that it is all show and that they are just playing to a crowd that could not answer one question about health care. If the GOP had the power to do anything close to a repeal they would never exercise it because after hearing from the various interests they would end up deciding that the ACA is the best way forward.
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Old 09-25-2013, 11:43 AM   #56
dirk digler dirk digler is offline
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
A, nobody was talking about catastrophic policies.


B, your link doesn't address the hypothetical income level of $35k that was presented
A. You can still get a bronze plan for $186 if you make over $25,000. If you are 27 and make $25,000 or less than the cheapest policy is $94.

B. Sure it does
Input 24 year old non-smoker making $35000 and you get


$2535\12 = $211.25


Results

Because your income is more than 4 times the poverty level, you would not qualify for subsidized exchange coverage. The information below is about unsubsidized exchange coverage.
Household income in 2014:
469% of poverty level
Unsubsidized annual health insurance premium in 2014:
$2,535
Maximum % of income you have to pay for the non-tobacco premium, if eligible for a subsidy:
None
Amount you pay for the premium:
$2,535 per year
(which equals 7.24% of your household income and covers 100% of the overall premium)
You could receive a government tax credit subsidy of up to:
$0
(which covers 0% of the overall premium)
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Old 09-25-2013, 11:45 AM   #57
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I don't think anyone walking the street cares about if this is a realy fillbuster or a fake one, or what these two clowns are even fighting about.

Obamacare was shoved down our throats whether we liked it or not. The public was not asking for it. Congress couldnt pass it without payoffs and parliamentary tricks. The entire thing has been a sham from start to finish.

Why would the public concern themselves with this process when the imperial presidency didnt concern itself with what the public thought ahead of this trojan horse being enacted?

Why would the public think they have any input into what Obama is doing to their health coverage when its opinion on this policy was never in doubt anyway?

Most people have completely tuned Obama and Congress out.
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Old 09-25-2013, 11:52 AM   #58
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
A, nobody was talking about catastrophic policies.


B, your link doesn't address the hypothetical income level of $35k that was presented
When you talk about the "cheapest policy" without giving any more detail than that, you're either talking about a catastrophic policy or you're being misleading. But leaving that aside, the cost of the non-catastrophic policies start well below the figure you quoted too.

The income level doesn't impact the policy cost. It only impacts the potential for relief in the form of credits. And if anything, the guy earning $25k is going to face a cheaper out of pocket (i.e. after credit) cost than the guy earning $35k.
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Old 09-25-2013, 12:03 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
When you talk about the "cheapest policy" without giving any more detail than that, you're either talking about a catastrophic policy or you're being misleading. But leaving that aside, the cost of the non-catastrophic policies start well below the figure you quoted too.
k.
It's not "me" talking about it, it was a citation which is why I put it in italics. But I'll stipulate your point that it's fair for me to post the next sentence the author posted:




In New Hampshire, where there is only one company on the exchange, the state’s largest newspaper let slip that the cheapest policy would be $398 a month. Thus, for a new graduate earning $35,000 (saddled with debt and earning too much to get any significant subsidy) this would constitute one-seventh of his or her income – for a “transfer payment” he or she will never use.

HHS has bragged that young people in selected places can get CATASTROPHIC policies – which they will never, ever use – for a “mere” $1,200 a year. Of course, this is like taking $1,200 of your meager income and burning it.

And all of this will be revealed on the day (October 1) that the new fiscal year begins.



http://www.redstate.com/mikehammond/...riations-bill/
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Old 09-25-2013, 12:05 PM   #60
Cephalic Trauma Cephalic Trauma is offline
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
It's not "me" talking about it, it was a citation which is why I put it in italics. But I'll stipulate your point that it's fair for me to post the next sentence the author posted:




In New Hampshire, where there is only one company on the exchange, the state’s largest newspaper let slip that the cheapest policy would be $398 a month. Thus, for a new graduate earning $35,000 (saddled with debt and earning too much to get any significant subsidy) this would constitute one-seventh of his or her income – for a “transfer payment” he or she will never use.

HHS has bragged that young people in selected places can get CATASTROPHIC policies – which they will never, ever use – for a “mere” $1,200 a year. Of course, this is like taking $1,200 of your meager income and burning it.

And all of this will be revealed on the day (October 1) that the new fiscal year begins.



http://www.redstate.com/mikehammond/...riations-bill/


Keep digging.
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