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Old 09-19-2013, 08:12 PM  
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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ObamaCare goodness continues

Home Depot Inc. (HD), the world’s largest home improvement retailer, plans to end medical coverage for about 20,000 part-time employees and direct them to government-sponsored exchanges scheduled to open next month as companies revamp benefits to fit the U.S. Affordable Care Act.

Employees with fewer than 30 hours a week will no longer be offered limited liability medical coverage, Stephen Holmes, a spokesman, said today by telephone. About 5 percent of Atlanta-based Home Depot’s 340,000 employees are enrolled in that plan.
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Old 09-23-2013, 09:36 PM   #61
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Originally Posted by nstygma View Post
regarding that video I posted, wouldn't you agree that Obama's statements are misleading?
Some of the clips have him saying "if you have your own insurance" or "your own private insurance" you can keep it. Some of the clips do not have that phrase. I guess he should have said that every time, but frankly, it seems pretty obvious to me that if you rely on your employer for insurance, it is always possible your plan will change if your employer decides to change it.
I mean, it is your employer that would be causing your plan to change, not Obamacare.

I think you are splitting hairs here to emphasize a fact inherent to employer-provided insurance (that your employer can change your plan on you) that has nothing to do with Obamacare.
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Old 09-24-2013, 11:37 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
The Chiefs and the AFL were laughingstocks when launched. DisneyLand had all kinds of problems at launch. D-Day air drops were a disaster and so on and so on.

Judging it now is not the same as judging it in a year of real uptime. How fast they fixed the bugs, tuned the system.

Execution is what will sell or fail Obamacare to the American public.
Dude I love ya to death but this is one you are going to regret. There is almost NOTHING about Obamacare that "works" as advertised.

Two main points that simply can't be ignored.

#1 Most CREDIBLE sources agree that Obamacare is bad for the overall economy. http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngood...lthcare-costs/

#2 Health care costs will INCREASE not DECREASE for the average citizen.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapoth...amily-of-four/

You can claim that you are ok with a slower, constricted economy and higher health care costs because of the "benefits" of Obamacare... but you CAN NOT credibly claim that costs will decrease or the economy won't suffer.
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Old 09-24-2013, 11:42 AM   #63
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And before anyone chimes in with that lovely old chestnut... "but the healthy uninsured will now be insured and that SAVES MONEY"... That would be true if in fact those people ALL were going to PAY for insurance (not the case) and is also heavily dependent on their usage of health services remaining constant. Uh Oh... guess what? Studies have show that in fact their usage is likely to double. So those theoretical savings are no longer valid.
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Old 09-24-2013, 11:45 AM   #64
Garcia Bronco Garcia Bronco is offline
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Colorado Heath Exchange for a middle aged woman in my office is 600 beans a month for the Silver plan. Now understand that's based on her health requirements, but either way she can't afford that and still eat and put a roof over her head.
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Old 09-24-2013, 12:32 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
And before anyone chimes in with that lovely old chestnut... "but the healthy uninsured will now be insured and that SAVES MONEY"... That would be true if in fact those people ALL were going to PAY for insurance (not the case) and is also heavily dependent on their usage of health services remaining constant. Uh Oh... guess what? Studies have show that in fact their usage is likely to double. So those theoretical savings are no longer valid.
Well, preventative care is a whole hell of a lot cheaper than emergency care.

Whether they buy insurance or not, if some of the uninsured pay something, it'll be an improvement since currently they freeload off the rest of us by going BK and sticking us with their hospital bills.
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Old 09-24-2013, 12:36 PM   #66
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I honestly believe that a few years down the road after the kinks are worked out and the law has more or less settled in, Obamacare has a decent chance of working out reasonably well, especially compared to the disaster we currently have. Group health has ALWAYS been much cheaper than individual health insurance, and Obamacare is basically going to transform all individual policies into group health policies. Its why your employer can get a better price than you can on your own. If that happens, the Democrats are going to get virtually all of the credit, which is really too bad since it was originally a Republican idea that they stole.

Almost all of Obamacare originated as "the conservative alternative to Clintoncare" in the 90's. When Obama grabbed it and the Dems rammed it through, rather than accepting partial credit, the GOP lost their freakin minds because they were at the time single-mindedly focused on trying to make Obama a one-term president, which meant staunch opposition to everything.

It didn't work, Obama won re-election, and now the GOP will get absolutely zero credit for an idea they originally came up with.
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Old 09-24-2013, 12:44 PM   #67
mlyonsd mlyonsd is offline
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Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
Well, preventative care is a whole hell of a lot cheaper than emergency care.

Whether they buy insurance or not, if some of the uninsured pay something, it'll be an improvement since currently they freeload off the rest of us by going BK and sticking us with their hospital bills.
No it won't be an improvement. Its going to be a burden on the middle class and a drag on the economy. The only winners will be people that didn't have healthcare before. They win because they will have healthcare. Healthcare that is subsidized by the rest of the middle class.
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Old 09-24-2013, 12:47 PM   #68
Fairplay Fairplay is offline
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Dude I love ya to death but this is one you are going to regret. There is almost NOTHING about Obamacare that "works" as advertised.

Two main points that simply can't be ignored.

#1 Most CREDIBLE sources agree that Obamacare is bad for the overall economy. http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngood...lthcare-costs/

#2 Health care costs will INCREASE not DECREASE for the average citizen.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapoth...amily-of-four/


But do we get to keep our own doctor
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Old 09-24-2013, 12:52 PM   #69
mlyonsd mlyonsd is offline
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Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
I honestly believe that a few years down the road after the kinks are worked out and the law has more or less settled in, Obamacare has a decent chance of working out reasonably well, especially compared to the disaster we currently have. Group health has ALWAYS been much cheaper than individual health insurance, and Obamacare is basically going to transform all individual policies into group health policies. Its why your employer can get a better price than you can on your own. If that happens, the Democrats are going to get virtually all of the credit, which is really too bad since it was originally a Republican idea that they stole.

Almost all of Obamacare originated as "the conservative alternative to Clintoncare" in the 90's. When Obama grabbed it and the Dems rammed it through, rather than accepting partial credit, the GOP lost their freakin minds because they were at the time single-mindedly focused on trying to make Obama a one-term president, which meant staunch opposition to everything.

It didn't work, Obama won re-election, and now the GOP will get absolutely zero credit for an idea they originally came up with.
It's such a bad idea Obama can't implement it as written, and won't defer the worst part because he knows as the covers are rolled off and exposed to the public he runs the risk of his big social entitlement never being implemented.

No, republicans are doing the right thing now by kicking and screaming. There will be no question on who owns it and I don't think you're correct on wo will be on the winning side.
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Old 09-24-2013, 01:00 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
Well, preventative care is a whole hell of a lot cheaper than emergency care.

Whether they buy insurance or not, if some of the uninsured pay something, it'll be an improvement since currently they freeload off the rest of us by going BK and sticking us with their hospital bills.
These are great theories but they don't bear fruit. They're based on so many faulty incomplete premises that it's hard to know where to start debunking them. So instead I'll ask you to take a step back and look at the entire SYSTEM as a whole.

Obamacare doesn't reduce healthcare COSTS. It simply doesn't. (The preventative care argument is hogwash unless you somehow want to MANDATE that as well) Therefore in this closed system as those costs continue to rise, they are still getting paid for SOMEHOW. All Obamacare can do in this instance is shift the cost burden around.

Of all the possible solutions to our health care problems, Obamacare is the WORST by far.
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Old 09-24-2013, 01:05 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
I honestly believe that a few years down the road after the kinks are worked out and the law has more or less settled in, Obamacare has a decent chance of working out reasonably well, especially compared to the disaster we currently have. Group health has ALWAYS been much cheaper than individual health insurance, and Obamacare is basically going to transform all individual policies into group health policies.
There are no "kinks" to work out. There are vast structural issue inherent to the system itself. The math of it simply doesn't work. period.

On the political front, what the Dems have to hope for is either

a)it fails in a way that leads to single payer (their true dream)

or

b)people hate it but it becomes entrenched and like every other "entitlement" becomes too much of a hassle to turn back from.

I find it amusing that people still are clinging to so many myths about Obamacare. It simply isn't anything close to what people were sold on. It's really not anything other than an expansion of Medicaid and a series of mandates on everyone else. That's a piss poor idea of a "solution" if I ever heard one.
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Old 09-24-2013, 01:11 PM   #72
alnorth alnorth is offline
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No it won't be an improvement. Its going to be a burden on the middle class and a drag on the economy. The only winners will be people that didn't have healthcare before. They win because they will have healthcare. Healthcare that is subsidized by the rest of the middle class.
They have healthcare now.

It is called going to the ER and then declaring bankruptcy.
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Old 09-24-2013, 01:11 PM   #73
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Of all the possible solutions to our health care problems, Obamacare is the WORST by far.
Might want to choose another descriptive.

Don't have the time right now to start picking apart details but I really can't understand for the life of me how anyone with half a functioning brain cell could look at where the government is at, where its taken us and say to themselves "I think it's a good idea they regulate our healthcare".

It's like watching a Tibetan Monk set himself on fire to me.

Has anyone come up with a good rationalization why the people who created and passed this bill made themselves exempt to it yet?
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Old 09-24-2013, 01:15 PM   #74
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(The preventative care argument is hogwash unless you somehow want to MANDATE that as well)
This only makes sense if you believe that they will continue to not go to the doctor even with insurance, until an ER visit is required.

If problems are caught early and treated before they become a chronic expensive emergency, it can save money above and beyond the added visits to general practitioners.

Its why insurance plans often give you free annual physicals and blood tests, they want you to see the doctor every year, because the insurance companies apparently also believe that preventative care can save them money.
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Old 09-24-2013, 01:18 PM   #75
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Might want to choose another descriptive.

Don't have the time right now to start picking apart details but I really can't understand for the life of me how anyone with half a functioning brain cell could look at where the government is at, where its taken us and say to themselves "I think it's a good idea they regulate our healthcare".

It's like watching a Tibetan Monk set himself on fire to me.

Has anyone come up with a good rationalization why the people who created and passed this bill made themselves exempt to it yet?
In what way is Congress exempt? (assuming that's who you are referencing)
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