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Old 07-30-2013, 08:36 AM  
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Old 11-02-2013, 01:05 PM   #1966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR View Post
You're the one who wields that YPC stat like it has any kind of meaning.

The issue of teams "cracking" Sutton's scheme (as overblown as you're making it out to be with their performances against the Texans and Browns) is a different conversation.

If that's what you want to talk about, then why do you keep bringing up YPC?
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Originally Posted by SNR View Post
Also, why are the Chiefs destined to regress because teams are working around Sutton's scheme? ALL teams play within a scheme. Just because this is a particularly aggressive one doesn't mean other coaches and their playbooks aren't susceptible to the same issues.

And yet, some defenses like the 2010 Packers and the 2011 Giants seem to get better as the season goes on.

I wonder why that is. Shouldn't they regress?
The gap in YPC and YPA is a huge clue that this defense is thriving due to scheme and not talent. As I have said probably 5 times. That's why I keep bringing up YPC.

The aggressiveness is precisely what smart QBs and OCs will take advantage of. I don't know why the Giants or Packers improved, but I would guess their situations had very little to do with KC's current situation. For a team that was very similar in a lot of ways, look at the 2009 Broncos.
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Old 11-02-2013, 01:15 PM   #1967
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Originally Posted by MagicHef View Post
The gap in YPC and YPA is a huge clue that this defense is thriving due to scheme and not talent. As I have said probably 5 times. That's why I keep bringing up YPC.

The aggressiveness is precisely what smart QBs and OCs will take advantage of. I don't know why the Giants or Packers improved, but I would guess their situations had very little to do with KC's current situation. For a team that was very similar in a lot of ways, look at the 2009 Broncos.
The only reason Denver fans keep bringing that comparison up is because it makes you feel better and gives you hope that the Chiefs won't keep the division from you.
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Old 11-02-2013, 01:15 PM   #1968
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicHef View Post
The gap in YPC and YPA is a huge clue that this defense is thriving due to scheme and not talent. As I have said probably 5 times. That's why I keep bringing up YPC.

The aggressiveness is precisely what smart QBs and OCs will take advantage of. I don't know why the Giants or Packers improved, but I would guess their situations had very little to do with KC's current situation. For a team that was very similar in a lot of ways, look at the 2009 Broncos.
And yet Manning struggles the most against this type of aggressive defense.

This defense ain't exactly going to shut out the Broncos or even hold them to under 3 TDs, but it's going to get its hits in on Manning and create a couple turnovers. That has a lasting impact as the game wears on, particularly in the 4th quarter.

And I'm not seeing the YPA/YPC thing. How is that indicative of what you're saying?
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Old 11-02-2013, 01:17 PM   #1969
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It's a little alarming how many times I have to explain this to you. Do I think that a team could eschew a QB, line up exclusively in the wildcat, and run the ball 60 times, and KC's defense would resort to flailing around, unable to stop them? No, that's stupid.

I'll explain it again, let me know if you don't understand any of it.

KC's defense is good, unlike last year. Why? I think it's because of the scheme more than the talent. I think that the aggressiveness of the scheme results in success against the pass, while leaving it vulnerable against the run. Overall, it has been extremely successful so far.

What happens to schemes as the season goes on? They get figured out and exploited by other teams.

I look for the defense to regress to its talent level (which is still pretty good, just not mid-80s Bears good) over the rest of the season. I think we've already seen this beginning to happen, with the defensive performances we saw against Case Keenum and Jason Campbell.
Holy **** you are dumb. This is one of the more talented defenses in the last decade. The scheme is just using the talent correctly
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Old 11-02-2013, 01:26 PM   #1970
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Holy **** you are dumb. This is one of the more talented defenses in the last decade. The scheme is just using the talent correctly
24 of our sacks come when rushing only four guys. It's all scheme!!!
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Old 11-02-2013, 01:28 PM   #1971
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And yet Manning struggles the most against this type of aggressive defense.

This defense ain't exactly going to shut out the Broncos or even hold them to under 3 TDs, but it's going to get its hits in on Manning and create a couple turnovers. That has a lasting impact as the game wears on, particularly in the 4th quarter.

And I'm not seeing the YPA/YPC thing. How is that indicative of what you're saying?
He's saying they concede the run and aggressively attack the pass. I'm not buying either, but that's what he's saying.
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Old 11-02-2013, 01:31 PM   #1972
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I won't pretend to know what's going to happen in the future, but it just seems our defense has that one bad stat. Pretty much everything else is on a break neck pace: points, pass yards per game, sacks, pass yards per attempt, etc.

Truthfully, we don't even allow a ton of yards on the ground; we just give them up at a higher clip than most other teams. Attribute that to the bad game against Philly and Pryor/Fitzpatrick running on us or what have you. I don't think anyone is worried about that and certainly no one that actually watches us play thinks our run defense is a weakness.

Something to also note, its obvious that our defense is still stellar without the turnovers. There was some concern, mostly from rival fans on this board, that we might not be able to remain so strong on defense without the help of the ridiculous turnover rate we were enjoying early in the season. In the past three games, I can only remember forcing two turnovers- the game-clinching strip by Tamba and Bess's muffed punt. Yet we're still winning games and still haven't allowed more than 17 points in any game.

We have a much tougher go of it coming up in the second half of the season but I still feel good about where we stand on defense.
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Old 11-02-2013, 01:31 PM   #1973
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He's saying they concede the run and aggressively attack the pass. I'm not buying either, but that's what he's saying.
I think he's saying he's never watched us play. Outside of the Eagles busting free....teams just give up on it cause it just doesn't work.
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Old 11-02-2013, 01:36 PM   #1974
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I think he's saying he's never watched us play. Outside of the Eagles busting free....teams just give up on it cause it just doesn't work.
Why should that stop him? MHM is predicting us to lose every week all the while admitting that he's missed most of our games.
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Old 11-02-2013, 01:37 PM   #1975
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Originally Posted by ThaVirus View Post
I won't pretend to know what's going to happen in the future, but it just seems our defense has that one bad stat. Pretty much everything else is on a break neck pace: points, pass yards per game, sacks, pass yards per attempt, etc.

Truthfully, we don't even allow a ton of yards on the ground; we just give them up at a higher clip than most other teams. Attribute that to the bad game against Philly and Pryor/Fitzpatrick running on us or what have you. I don't think anyone is worried about that and certainly no one that actually watches us play thinks our run defense is a weakness.

Something to also note, its obvious that our defense is still stellar without the turnovers. There was some concern, mostly from rival fans on this board, that we might not be able to remain so strong on defense without the help of the ridiculous turnover rate we were enjoying early in the season. In the past three games, I can only remember forcing two turnovers- the game-clinching strip by Tamba and Bess's muffed punt. Yet we're still winning games and still haven't allowed more than 17 points in any game.

We have a much tougher go of it coming up in the second half of the season but I still feel good about where we stand on defense.
We beat the Texans in spite of being BEHIND in the turnover margin for that game.
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Old 11-02-2013, 01:37 PM   #1976
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Why should that stop him? MHM is predicting us to lose every week all the while admitting that he's missed most of our games.
PileHighMania gets pissy when we win.
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Old 11-02-2013, 01:41 PM   #1977
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We beat the Texans in spite of being BEHIND in the turnover margin for that game.
Yeah, that's what I was getting at. Alex and Jamaal put the defense in a really bad spot that game and yet we still found a way to hold them to 16 points.

...And I should have said the last two weeks. I didn't realize we played the Raiders 3 weeks ago. That just seems so long ago now.
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Old 11-02-2013, 01:46 PM   #1978
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PileHighMania gets pissy when we win.
lol...you ain't lyin'. The back handed compliments and passive-aggressive hating that dude spews is amusing.
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Old 11-02-2013, 01:47 PM   #1979
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lol...you ain't lyin'. The back handed compliments and passive-aggressive hating that dude spews is amusing.
2nd place really has these guys on the rag it seems
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Old 11-02-2013, 02:34 PM   #1980
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And yet Manning struggles the most against this type of aggressive defense.

This defense ain't exactly going to shut out the Broncos or even hold them to under 3 TDs, but it's going to get its hits in on Manning and create a couple turnovers. That has a lasting impact as the game wears on, particularly in the 4th quarter.

And I'm not seeing the YPA/YPC thing. How is that indicative of what you're saying?
He does? Can you provide evidence? It seems like the story on what Manning struggles against changes weekly.

When a team has its DL/LBs rushing aggressively, it opens up lanes for the run game. Running QBs, especially, can take advantage.
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