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Old 06-11-2013, 03:04 PM  
Ace Gunner Ace Gunner is offline
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ACLU sues over NSA phone records program

NEW YORK (AP) — Two prominent civil rights groups have filed a lawsuit against the National Security Agency over its program that reportedly collects the telephone records of millions of American customers of Verizon.

The American Civil Liberties Union and the New York Civil Liberties Union say in a lawsuit filed in federal court Tuesday that the program violates First Amendment rights of free speech and association. It also alleges the program violates Fourth Amendment rights to privacy.

The lawsuit additionally alleges the government’s program exceeds Congress’ authority.

ACLU Deputy Legal Director Jameel Jaffer says the program is the same as requiring Americans to give the government a ‘‘daily report’’ of their activities and conversations.


President Barack Obama has defended the program and says privacy must be balanced with security.


http://www.boston.com/news/nation/20...8YO/story.html
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Old 06-11-2013, 08:22 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
There is the unknown but highly likely and often conjectured upon issue of the NSA collecting/intercepting/tapping the actual CONTENT of emails, phone conversations, etc... Issue #1 is unsavory but not illegal, issue #2 is illegal as all hell(here we have a legit 4th Amendment beef) but we have no solid proof of it happening.
One thing making the 2nd issue difficult is the seemingly stark contradiction between the Guardian/Post story, and the public denials from these companies and the government.

To say, "well they are all lying" isn't satisfying. Maybe the feds lie (Clapper certainly did lie to congress at least once), but I think it is very likely that Facebook, Google, etc are carefully crafting their response so that they are not technically lying, but also not revealing something they don't want to reveal. If you presume that, it is hard to avoid the conclusion that they and the feds desperately want you to draw (that no information is ever sent to the NSA without the review and approval of the FISA court, and that PRISM is just a more efficient way to receive data)

This more harmless, benign explanation of PRISM is tough to swallow because I don't know why the NSA would be so excited about PRISM in the slideshow if thats all it was, and because of the data center in Utah. The contents of the entire world wide web was recently estimated to be one-half of a zettabyte. The new NSA storage facility will hold 5 zettabytes. Why the hell would they need so much storage if they are only receiving information on, say a few thousand people per year?

Here's one theory
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Old 06-11-2013, 08:32 PM   #32
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Google etc. can say that they aren't providing direct access to their data to the NSA. They can simply hand over a copy of their database and updates of their database to the NSA. So, the NSA isn't getting it directly from Google, etc. but it is a distinction without a difference. Just more weasel words. If just one of these companies stood up and refused to comply this whole house of cards would of fallen long ago as it would come out in public.
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Old 06-11-2013, 08:39 PM   #33
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If there's a smart telecommunications entrepreneur out there, he'd start a company that advertises it keeps all your date private unless presented with a warrant. That ought to fix things. Also, google can use some better competition.
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Old 06-11-2013, 08:41 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GloucesterChief View Post
Google etc. can say that they aren't providing direct access to their data to the NSA. They can simply hand over a copy of their database and updates of their database to the NSA. So, the NSA isn't getting it directly from Google, etc. but it is a distinction without a difference. Just more weasel words. If just one of these companies stood up and refused to comply this whole house of cards would of fallen long ago as it would come out in public.
Google specifically said they aren't doing that.

The only explanation where no one is technically lying (except through lies of omission), is if the NSA analyst is able to automatically get anything they want from these companies with a request flagged as FISA-approved without having to actually wake up a judge anywhere. (For example, like in that link I posted above, perhaps abusing the loophole where you don't need to go to court until a week after you begin surveillance.)
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Old 06-11-2013, 08:57 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
The new NSA storage facility will hold 5 zettabytes. Why the hell would they need so much storage if they are only receiving information on, say a few thousand people per year?

Here's one theory
Ok, let's nip this zettabyte bullshit in the bud. There is no way in hell the NSA facility will hold 5 zettabytes like the press is reporting without doing a lick of homework on... lazy asshats that they are. Unless they have some super duper secret new form of storage that no one... and I mean NO ONE in the tech industry knows about then it just isn't possible. They would need over 1,000,000 sq ft dedicated simply to rack after rack of 4TB drives to accomplish this... and it doesn't even account for cooling or space to walk around or a multitude of other factors. You are realistically looking at 5 million sq ft of floor space required JUST for the storage area to get you up to 1 zettabyte.

Realistically they'll probably start out with something like 5 EXAbytes.

On another note... Google is pushing back and asking the Feds to allow them to release exactly what they have complied with and what data requests they have shared.

http://www.mercurynews.com/business/...m-requests-but
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:28 PM   #36
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A closed-door briefing with the entire house of representatives has just ended, and it appears that a lot of congressmen from both parties are pissed.

Quote:
After the congressional briefing, Xavier Becerra, leader of the House minority caucus, said there had not been enough oversight of government surveillance programs. "We are now glimpsing the damage," he said, referring to failures to repeal the Patriot Act sooner. "It was an extraordinary measure for an extraordinary time but it shouldn't have been extended."

Others said the White House and intelligence committee leaders had been misleading when they claimed all members of Congress were briefed about the mass swoop of telephone records.

"There was a letter that we were supposed to have received in 2011 but I can't find it and most of my friends in Congress did not receive this either," said New Jersey Democrat Bill Pascrell, who claimed the widespread collection of phone data amounted to "spying on Americans … This is one of the first briefings I have been to where I actually learned something."

The anger was apparent in both parties. The conservative Republican Steve King of Iowa predicted joint action from Congress would be imminent. "There is going to be a bipartisan response to this," he said.

Pascrell said: "There were no Democrats or Republicans in there at all, which is a healthy sign, it means we can get something done about this."

Another Republican, Tom McClintock of California, claimed the phone snooping amounted to an abuse of fourth amendment rights. "Going back to the days of British rule we have sought to stop the authorities barging in on people's privacy just in case they found something," he said. "The fourth amendment was passed to make sure that never happened and it is time to make sure it does not ever happen again."

Elijah Cummings, another Democrat unhappy at the Obama administration's security practices, came out of the secret briefing saying: "We learned a lot [but] I'm not comfortable."

Pascrell said: "People should know what's going on in their name but we need to start with Congress knowing what the heck is going on."
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:57 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Ok, let's nip this zettabyte bullshit in the bud. There is no way in hell the NSA facility will hold 5 zettabytes like the press is reporting without doing a lick of homework on... lazy asshats that they are. Unless they have some super duper secret new form of storage that no one... and I mean NO ONE in the tech industry knows about then it just isn't possible. They would need over 1,000,000 sq ft dedicated simply to rack after rack of 4TB drives to accomplish this... and it doesn't even account for cooling or space to walk around or a multitude of other factors. You are realistically looking at 5 million sq ft of floor space required JUST for the storage area to get you up to 1 zettabyte.

Realistically they'll probably start out with something like 5 EXAbytes.

On another note... Google is pushing back and asking the Feds to allow them to release exactly what they have complied with and what data requests they have shared.

http://www.mercurynews.com/business/...m-requests-but
That's Dane type of square footage
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Old 06-11-2013, 10:01 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
A closed-door briefing with the entire house of representatives has just ended, and it appears that a lot of congressmen from both parties are pissed.
I love how congressmen pretend to know nothing, give me a ****ing break.
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Old 06-11-2013, 10:04 PM   #39
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Old 06-11-2013, 10:06 PM   #40
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I love how congressmen pretend to know nothing, give me a ****ing break.
Some of them didn't.
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Old 06-11-2013, 10:18 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by KILLER_CLOWN View Post
Your Video
Nice vid. I really think, one major problem is that we elect men who haven't a clue what's in the Constitution. That's how such stuff passes.
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Old 06-11-2013, 10:27 PM   #42
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Nice vid. I really think, one major problem is that we elect men who haven't a clue what's in the Constitution. That's how such stuff passes.
We elect people who don't care what's in the Constitution.
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Old 06-11-2013, 10:33 PM   #43
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We elect people who don't care what's in the Constitution.
Yuuuuuuup.
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Old 06-11-2013, 10:57 PM   #44
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I would love to see ****ing heads roll. They won't, but I'd love to see some high level ****ing scumbags burn at the stake.

Love to see Obama impeached. Won't happen but oh we'll. it's on my wishlist. After banging Emma Stone.
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Old 06-11-2013, 11:07 PM   #45
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I would love to see ****ing heads roll. They won't, but I'd love to see some high level ****ing scumbags burn at the stake.

Love to see Obama impeached. Won't happen but oh we'll. it's on my wishlist. After banging Emma Stone.
You can have her after i'm darn well finished with her.
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