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Old 06-06-2013, 12:53 AM  
dmahurin dmahurin is offline
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Had a meeting today at work on insurance...

It was our annual insurance meeting to discuss changes to the policy, allow for enrollment changes and all that good stuff. Due to the ACA, the number of policy options has dropped to two, policy prices have increased around 12%, and W-2's in 2014 will be changing to include an insurance premium cost section as "proof" of insurance to avoid the tax penalty. Our HR rep made the meetings mandatory for every employee, even people who are covered under spouses or other plans to drill home the point that if you're not covered by January 1st 2014 you will recieve the tax penalty under the new law. Thanks a lot Obama.

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Old 06-07-2013, 11:18 AM   #61
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Actually the tax penalty wont come out of your check via withholding, the law specifically forbids that. You pay your penalty when you submit your taxes in April, in most cases it will be subtracted from your refund. If you dont get a refund you can refuse to send them a check for the penalty and I believe they cant come after you for it, but you would have to be really, really good at getting your withholding level set just right to pull that off.

And just to reiterate, you have to pay your $50k hospital bill no matter what.
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:25 AM   #62
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Actually the tax penalty wont come out of your check via withholding, the law specifically forbids that. You pay your penalty when you submit your taxes in April, in most cases it will be subtracted from your refund. If you dont get a refund you can refuse to send them a check for the penalty and I believe they cant come after you for it, but you would have to be really, really good at getting your withholding level set just right to pull that off.

And just to reiterate, you have to pay your $50k hospital bill no matter what.
thanks, you've given me (by far) the most straight forward answers I could've possibly asked for.

so Obamacare (in a nutshell) is making everyone, especially young people that don't need it, pay for health insurance in some way, (deduction if not a plan) whether they like or not, so that old people who are being denied coverage for cancer and such can be taken care of.

but (correct me if i'm wrong) can't insurance providers still rake uninsured old cancer patients over the coals by charging out the wazoo, even if they can't technically deny them coverage?

Obamacare isn't fixing shit except bankrupting us as I see it now
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:33 AM   #63
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thanks, you've given me (by far) the most straight forward answers I could've possibly asked for.

so Obamacare (in a nutshell) is making everyone, especially young people that don't need it, pay for health insurance in some way, (deduction if not a plan) whether they like or not, so that old people who are being denied coverage for cancer and such can be taken care of.

but (correct me if i'm wrong) can't insurance providers still rake uninsured old cancer patients over the coals by charging out the wazoo, even if they can't technically deny them coverage?

Obamacare isn't fixing shit except bankrupting us as I see it now
Well, its not a well-defined term, so we might disagree, but generally insurance providers will have a lot less ability to rake people over the coals by charging out the wazoo.

This is due to community rating in rate setting and higher minimum standards insurers have to meet in the coverage they offer. Also, they can no longer drop patients with high bills by claiming a preexisting condition, and they can no longer impose lifetime benefit caps. This last one is most relevant for old cancer patients, where previously the insurer could cut off their benefits after some amount and then leave them mostly on their own.

Older people with serious illnesses are definitely one of the groups of winners from Obamacare.
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:36 AM   #64
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Actually the tax penalty wont come out of your check via withholding, the law specifically forbids that. You pay your penalty when you submit your taxes in April, in most cases it will be subtracted from your refund. If you dont get a refund you can refuse to send them a check for the penalty and I believe they cant come after you for it, but you would have to be really, really good at getting your withholding level set just right to pull that off.

And just to reiterate, you have to pay your $50k hospital bill no matter what.
Thats not exactly true. You can't get blood from a turnip. They can do all kinds of thing to screw with your credit. They can file a judgement that would deduct what you owe plus costs if you ever win the lottery or whatever. But unless you have the assets there isn't a whole lot they can do to complel you to pay up. They may talk tough and threaten you, turn it over to a collection agency but if your 20 years old without a pot to piss in they get nothing until you have something to get.
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:42 AM   #65
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Older people with serious illnesses are definitely one of the groups of winners from Obamacare.
not to mention the doctors and drug companies.

older people with serious illnesses will have better access to drugs and doctors (definitely a good thing)

but young people now paying for insurance they don't need will feel more compelled to visit the doctors so they aren't "being screwed" or "wasting their money", their doctors will tell them to come back and check up on every little scratch and possible mole (more $$$) and prescribe them more drugs (more $$$) and young people will be far more likely to try and get hooked on "pharmies" to get high like Xanax, Adderall, anti depressants, painkillers etc. since that'll be the best way to "get their monies worth" for insurance they don't need (a bad thing)

of course healthy young people should be insured before and after obamacare in case of accidents, but there's no doubt in my mind those who are now forced to get insurance or pay penalties anyway will feel obligated to visit doctors more often and "take advantage" of insurance they wouldn't otherwise have or be using
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:42 AM   #66
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Thats not exactly true. You can't get blood from a turnip. They can do all kinds of thing to screw with your credit. They can file a judgement that would deduct what you owe plus costs if you ever win the lottery or whatever. But unless you have the assets there isn't a whole lot they can do to complel you to pay up. They may talk tough and threaten you, turn it over to a collection agency but if your 20 years old without a pot to piss in they get nothing until you have something to get.
Thats true. What I meant by "no matter what" was, with or without Obamacare. You are in the same situation either way, but you might be able to get out of paying the bill in either situation, too.

If you do so, you are in effect passing those costs on to everyone else, which is what the tax penalty is meant to offset.
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:44 AM   #67
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Thats not exactly true. You can't get blood from a turnip. They can do all kinds of thing to screw with your credit. They can file a judgement that would deduct what you owe plus costs if you ever win the lottery or whatever. But unless you have the assets there isn't a whole lot they can do to complel you to pay up. They may talk tough and threaten you, turn it over to a collection agency but if your 20 years old without a pot to piss in they get nothing until you have something to get.
but anyone with dreams or hopes to have more than a pot to piss in is still screwed, just like before
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:44 AM   #68
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not to mention the doctors and drug companies.

older people with serious illnesses will have better access to drugs and doctors (definitely a good thing)

but young people now paying for insurance they don't need will feel more compelled to visit the doctors so they aren't "being screwed" or "wasting their money", their doctors will tell them to come back and check up on every little scratch and possible mole (more $$$) and prescribe them more drugs (more $$$) and young people will be far more likely to try and get hooked on "pharmies" to get high like Xanax, Adderall, anti depressants, painkillers etc. since that'll be the best way to "get their monies worth" for insurance they don't need (a bad thing)

of course healthy young people should be insured before and after obamacare in case of accidents, but there's no doubt in my mind those who are now forced to get insurance or pay penalties anyway will feel obligated to visit doctors more often and "take advantage" of insurance they wouldn't otherwise have or be using
Thats true and its by design. Health people tend to think that long-term costs are lower if young people go to more check-ups and get more preventive care. This may or may not be true, I guess it depends on whether or not you think most proscribed health care is worthwhile.
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:55 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Backwards Masking View Post
not to mention the doctors and drug companies.

older people with serious illnesses will have better access to drugs and doctors (definitely a good thing)

but young people now paying for insurance they don't need will feel more compelled to visit the doctors so they aren't "being screwed" or "wasting their money", their doctors will tell them to come back and check up on every little scratch and possible mole (more $$$) and prescribe them more drugs (more $$$) and young people will be far more likely to try and get hooked on "pharmies" to get high like Xanax, Adderall, anti depressants, painkillers etc. since that'll be the best way to "get their monies worth" for insurance they don't need (a bad thing)

of course healthy young people should be insured before and after obamacare in case of accidents, but there's no doubt in my mind those who are now forced to get insurance or pay penalties anyway will feel obligated to visit doctors more often and "take advantage" of insurance they wouldn't otherwise have or be using
Why do you think young people don't need insurance? Young people are just as likely to get injured in an accident as an older person. Insurance isn't just for when your sick or get cancer. If you shatter your leg playing quidditch with the other kids in the Harry Potter group at the local Rennaissance fair, the surgery is going to be expensive. If you can't pay for it and declare bankruptcy, guess who that cost gets passed on to--people with insurance.
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:56 AM   #70
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Thats true and its by design. Health people tend to think that long-term costs are lower if young people go to more check-ups and get more preventive care. This may or may not be true, I guess it depends on whether or not you think most proscribed health care is worthwhile.
i get my teeth cleaned and checked on twice a year no matter what. even if there's nothing wrong with them, i'm never "wasting money" because they still get cleaned at the very least.

i've never needed a doctor's visit in my entire life, every single one has been money down the drain, and every "preventative" procedure was a waste of time, some quack making himself a quick buck at my expense.

on the one hand i should be grateful for that and be happy to help maintain an industry that i obviously WILL need someday when i do get sick. on the other hand, since every experience i've personally had has been on par with a mechanic making me buy a new exhaust system because the old one of 6 months had a questionable scratch, i'm cynical of doctors and do everything i can do avoid them.

thanks for the info though, you've been very helpful
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:57 AM   #71
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Why do you think young people don't need insurance? Young people are just as likely to get injured in an accident as an older person. Insurance isn't just for when your sick or get cancer. If you shatter your leg playing quidditch with the other kids in the Harry Potter group at the local Rennaissance fair, the surgery is going to be expensive. If you can't pay for it and declare bankruptcy, guess who that cost gets passed on to--people with insurance.
did you even read the bottom part of my post you quoted? obviously you didnt, as i said all of the above....
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:03 PM   #72
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did you even read the bottom part of my post you quoted? obviously you didnt, as i said all of the above....
You contradicted yourself in your post. It isn't insurance they don't need, it is insurance they might not have reason to use.
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:15 PM   #73
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You contradicted yourself in your post. It isn't insurance they don't need, it is insurance they might not have reason to use.
thanks Dad, i'm glad you came around to correct my language, that's swell

at least i don't rip into people's posts without even reading them, and pretend to help someone asking honest questions and looking for honest answers when all I'm really doing is getting on my high horse in a pathetic effort to feel self righteous

i may have accidentally contradicted myself, but at least I'm not purposely Full Of Shit like you are
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Old 06-07-2013, 04:36 PM   #74
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thanks Dad, i'm glad you came around to correct my language, that's swell

at least i don't rip into people's posts without even reading them, and pretend to help someone asking honest questions and looking for honest answers when all I'm really doing is getting on my high horse in a pathetic effort to feel self righteous

i may have accidentally contradicted myself, but at least I'm not purposely Full Of Shit like you are
A few things:

I wasn't ripping your post and I did read it. I was simply asking a question about a sentence in your post and attempting to explain why I thought it was misguided.

You've said a few things in your search for knowledge about this subject that I thought were dumb and yet I didn't bring them up. You actually said that young people would intentionally try to get hooked on pharmaceutical drugs to justify their insurance expenditures.

The ACA is a bad deal that was pushed through on false claims and will end up hurting the majority of Americans both financially and medically. Sorry if my comments got under your skin. I wasn't intentionally trying to piss you off.
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Old 06-07-2013, 04:46 PM   #75
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