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Old 06-06-2013, 01:53 AM  
dmahurin dmahurin is offline
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Had a meeting today at work on insurance...

It was our annual insurance meeting to discuss changes to the policy, allow for enrollment changes and all that good stuff. Due to the ACA, the number of policy options has dropped to two, policy prices have increased around 12%, and W-2's in 2014 will be changing to include an insurance premium cost section as "proof" of insurance to avoid the tax penalty. Our HR rep made the meetings mandatory for every employee, even people who are covered under spouses or other plans to drill home the point that if you're not covered by January 1st 2014 you will recieve the tax penalty under the new law. Thanks a lot Obama.

Last edited by dmahurin; 06-06-2013 at 11:02 AM..
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:58 AM   #46
Backwards Masking Backwards Masking is offline
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Originally Posted by FD View Post
Can you be more specific about the bolded part?
i was under the impression under Obamacare everyone will get the treated regardless of their insurance situation (like Europe), and if they have no insurance, will only have to pay the $600-$700 penalty (that's "not a tax" LOL) like anyone without insurance that didn't have an operation

i could be wrong, and i certainly don't trust that, but that's my impression, please inform me if it's incorrect
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:02 PM   #47
FD FD is offline
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Originally Posted by Backwards Masking View Post
i was under the impression under Obamacare everyone will get the treated regardless of their insurance situation (like Europe), and if they have no insurance, will only have to pay the $600-$700 penalty (that's "not a tax" LOL) like anyone without insurance that didn't have an operation

i could be wrong, and i certainly don't trust that, but that's my impression, please inform me if it's incorrect
No, you will still be liable for the full cost of your operation(~50k in your example.)
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:03 PM   #48
Garcia Bronco Garcia Bronco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Backwards Masking View Post
i was under the impression under Obamacare everyone will get the treated regardless of their insurance situation (like Europe), and if they have no insurance, will only have to pay the $600-$700 penalty (that's "not a tax" LOL) like anyone without insurance that didn't have an operation

i could be wrong, and i certainly don't trust that, but that's my impression, please inform me if it's incorrect
You wouldn't buy insurance at that age given the penalty. However you would have already paid the penalty if you have a job. They'll take it out of your check at your company much like SS and FICA. The ACA is the death of private insurance in this country. Not right away. That would be stupid, but the way it's setup leads to the market place closing down private insurance...OR...the health insurance carriers will have to figure out a way to stay in business, which would mean medical business would have to get by on less. Which probably isn't going to happen.
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:03 PM   #49
Backwards Masking Backwards Masking is offline
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Originally Posted by FD View Post
No, you will still be liable for the cost of your operation(~50k in your example.)
Really? Obama sold this as helping the lowest common denominator.

Then who the hell benefits from Obamacare?
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:04 PM   #50
Garcia Bronco Garcia Bronco is offline
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Originally Posted by FD View Post
No, you will still be liable for the cost of your operation(~50k in your example.)
I was under the impression that the ACA would cover that, otherwise what's the point?
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:05 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Backwards Masking View Post
Really? Obama sold this as helping the lowest common denominator.

Then who the hell benefits from Obamacare?

I think you are confusing this issue with the issue of preexisting conditions. Insurance companies can no longer cancel your insurance or deny it initially due to "preexisting conditions", but this doesnt mean they have to retroactively insure you for a past surgery. Even if they did (and they dont) you would still have to pay the deductible.

To answer your second question, the people who benefit from this provision are the people who currently lack insurance because companies turn them down or drop them when they get sick.
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:07 PM   #52
stonedstooge stonedstooge is offline
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Originally Posted by Backwards Masking View Post
I'm naive about this stuff, and I'd like someone more intelligent than me to explain in the simplest way possible for my naive mind to understand.

Assume I'm Joe Blow my 20's, healthy, optimum body weight and non smoker

In 2011, I pay for minimum health coverage ($100 a month - $1200 a year) and if I never go to the doctor and nothing happens, I'm out $1200 for insurance I didn't use.

Also in 2011, I pay for min. health coverage (same cost as above) break my leg or my appendix bursts (both $50k operations give or take) I pay a deductible ($1-$5k in addition to the $1200 yearly cost) but avoid the full $50k cost by only paying the $2200-$6200 for my plan

Also in 2011, I decline to pay to for min. coverage, I break my leg or my appendix bursts (both $50k operations give or take) and I'm responsible for that $50k operation, all $50k of it

I KNOW this was our system in 2011, give or take on the numbers

Jump to 2015, I'm still Joe Blow in my 20's, healthy non smoker

I say to hell with insurance, dont go the doctor, nothing happens, I pay a tax penalty of $600-$700 next April 15th, correct?

I say to hell with insurance, break my leg ($50k operation), Obamacare writes it off, I pay the same tax penalty of $600-$700 correct?

I buy min. health insurance (now $1500-$3000) nothing happens, I don't go the doctor, I dont get penalized $600-$700 BUT I minus that I'm still out $800-$2300 on insurance I didn;t use, correct?

I buy min. health insurance ($1500-$3000) break my leg ($50k operation) pay the $1k-$5k deductible on my plan, don't get "penalized" with the $600-$700 tax but I'm still down $1800-$7300 for buying insurance when I could have just paid the $600-$700 penalty, correct?

Forgive me if my example numbers are skewed, they're just estimates for the sake of wanting answers.

If all of the above is true (and from what i understand it roughly is) why would I, healthy Joe Blow in his 20's that never goes to the doctor, EVER EVEN CONSIDER buying health insurance.

Apologies for the long post and thanks ahead for your answers.
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:07 PM   #53
Backwards Masking Backwards Masking is offline
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Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco View Post
You wouldn't buy insurance at that age given the penalty. However you would have already paid the penalty if you have a job. They'll take it out of your check at your company much like SS and FICA.
They'll take what out of my check? The $600-$700 premium or the $50k operation? or both?

i thought the penalty would come as a lump charge on April 15th depending on whether or not I could provide proof of insurance.
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:08 PM   #54
Garcia Bronco Garcia Bronco is offline
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Originally Posted by Backwards Masking View Post
They'll take what out of my check? The $600-$700 premium or the $50k operation? or both?

i thought the penalty would come as a lump charge on April 15th depending on whether or not I could provide proof of insurance.
The premium. There will be situation that occur like you suggest (lump payment 4/15) but generally they'll take it out of your check each pay period. A company could decide not to pay each pay period, but I would think they would and pay it quarterly. Interest rates suck right now, but most companies earn interest on the money they withhold to pay the IRS until it's time to cut the check.
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:10 PM   #55
Backwards Masking Backwards Masking is offline
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Originally Posted by FD View Post
I think you are confusing this issue with the issue of preexisting conditions. Insurance companies can no longer cancel your insurance or deny it initially due to "preexisting conditions", but this doesnt mean they have to retroactively insure you for a past surgery. Even if they did (and they dont) you would still have to pay the deductible.

To answer your second question, the people who benefit from this provision are the people who currently lack insurance because companies turn them down or drop them when they get sick.
i'm not asking to pay for a past surgery, i'm asking specifically about surgeries going forward. Someone uninsured that has their appendix burst is just as ****ed under Obamacare as they are under the previous system? (exp. $50k?)
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:10 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Backwards Masking View Post
i was under the impression under Obamacare everyone will get the treated regardless of their insurance situation (like Europe), and if they have no insurance, will only have to pay the $600-$700 penalty (that's "not a tax" LOL) like anyone without insurance that didn't have an operation

i could be wrong, and i certainly don't trust that, but that's my impression, please inform me if it's incorrect
According to:
• the SC's majority it is a tax
• to the lawyer who defended it to the SC, it is a tax
• to the Rs when it was being passed it was a tax
Remember, the justice needed to make ACA Constitutional as the one needed vote did not defend the ACA's idea of a mandate if it was that. So he agreed with the other Progressive justices it could be Constitutional since it operates like a tax.
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:13 PM   #57
Backwards Masking Backwards Masking is offline
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The premium. There will be situation that occur like you suggest (lump payment 4/15) but generally they'll take it out of your check each pay period.
so you're saying if I don't have insurance and I have a $50k emergency operation, I'm responsible for the penalty ($600-$700) and that's it? that's not what FD says.

sorry for being confused and thanks for answering
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:13 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Backwards Masking View Post
i'm not asking to pay for a past surgery, i'm asking specifically about surgeries going forward. Someone uninsured that has their appendix burst is just as ****ed under Obamacare as they are under the previous system? (exp. $50k?)
Yes, an uninsured person who has their appendix burst is just as screwed under Obamacare as they are today. The only difference is they will also have to pay a penalty for not carrying insurance.
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:15 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Backwards Masking View Post
so you're saying if I don't have insurance and I have a $50k emergency operation, I'm responsible for the penalty ($600-$700) and that's it? that's not what FD says.

sorry for being confused and thanks for answering
I have the same question myself.
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:15 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
According to:
• the SC's majority it is a tax
• to the lawyer who defended it to the SC, it is a tax
• to the Rs when it was being passed it was a tax
Remember, the justice needed to make ACA Constitutional as the one needed vote did not defend the ACA's idea of a mandate if it was that. So he agreed with the other Progressive justices it could be Constitutional since it operates like a tax.
Oh for ****'s sake please don't turn this into a dem/pub thing, I know it's a tax hence my LOL

I'm seriously wanting to know if Joe Blow eschews insurance in 2015 and requires a $50k emergency operation if Joe Blow just pays the $600-$700 penalty tax, or does he also pay a portion of the cost (like an insurance premium $1-$5k) or is he STILL responsible for all $50k, that's what i want to know
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