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Old 05-02-2013, 10:16 PM  
TomBarndtsTwin TomBarndtsTwin is offline
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Andy Reid seems to think all Tackles are created equal . . .

If history is any indication, Andy Reid seems to value an elite Right Tackle just as much as an elite Left Tackle:


Eagles make OT Runyan highest-paid lineman ever

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Posted: Monday February 14, 2000 08:30 PM

Jon Runyan rejected a six-year deal from the Tennessee Titans. Ezra O. Shaw/Allsport
PHILADELPHIA (AP) -- The Philadelphia Eagles broke ground on a $25 million practice facility and signed a $30 million free agent Monday.

Jon Runyan, a 6-foot-7, 330-pound right tackle, became the highest-paid offensive lineman in NFL history when he signed a 6-year, $30 million deal. Runyan, 26, leaves the AFC Champion Tennessee Titans for an Eagles team that is coming off a 5-11 season.

"It was going to take something to get me out of Tennessee and here I am," Runyan said. "There's a great feeling around here. The team is moving in the right direction. They stepped up and made the decision easy on the business end."

Runyan, who arrived in Philadelphia late Saturday night, said all along his decision would come down to money. Runyan's agent, Ben Dogra, said Tennessee offered him a six-year deal in excess of the $27 million package Cleveland gave to free-agent tackle Orlando Brown last year. However, the Eagles' offer is significantly more front-end loaded.

"There was no bidding war," Dogra said, adding that the Eagles initial offer was lower than the Titans'. "Tennessee had an offer to make him the highest paid lineman. We asked them if they would move on their offer. They probably called our bluff, thinking they would be bidding against themselves."

Runyan received a $6 million signing bonus and will get an additional $3.5 million if he is on the roster Feb. 21. His base salary for the 2000 season is $500,000. Runyan will count $5 million against the salary cap this year. He will earn $3.5 million in 2001-03. His salary increases to $4.5 in 2004 and $5.5 million in 2005. A Pro Bowl clause could make the final year worth $6.5 million.

"He's the best right tackle in football, bar none," Eagles coach Andy Reid said. "Everything starts with the offensive line. Having that philosophy, he is a key ingredient. He's a big part of this."

Runyan, a four-year veteran, played for three, 8-8 Titans teams prior to Tennessee's Super Bowl run this year. He believes there are similarities between his former team and his new team.

"I feel comfortable here," Runyan said. "They have a great, young quarterback [Donovan McNabb], a good running back [Duce Staley] and a solid defense. It's hard to turn down."

Runyan will team with 6-foot-7, 350-pound left tackle Tra Thomas to give the Eagles formidable bookend tackles. He helps solidify an offensive line unit that has not played well consistently since the early 1980s. The last offensive lineman to represent the Eagles in the Pro Bowl was Jerry Sisemore in 1982. Runyan also allows the Eagles to address other needs, namely wide receiver and defensive line, with the No. 6 pick in April's draft.

"This is obviously a position we feel secure at," Reid said. "Does it mean we won't take another lineman in the draft? No."

Runyan was scheduled to leave Philadelphia on Sunday. However, he decided to stay another day as a good faith gesture to prove he was serious about the Eagles. The team has been burned by free agents in the past who used their visit to Philadelphia as a bargaining tool. Dogra said he had not scheduled any other visits for Runyan though several teams are believed to have expressed interest.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/foo..._ap/?mobile=no

Just thought this was interesting to read so many years later . . . .

Some food for thought . . . . or discussion . . .
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Old 05-03-2013, 10:02 PM   #46
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Sac, what do you know about this center we drafted?

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Old 05-03-2013, 10:10 PM   #47
TomBarndtsTwin TomBarndtsTwin is offline
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Originally Posted by Fat Elvis View Post
"Bust potential?" We signed the guy as an UDFA. There is no "bust" UDFAs. He can sit on a park bench and drool and the Chiefs are no worse off. We gave up NOTHING to get him. There is only upside. A lot of potential upside.
I'm aware of this. Clearly, you missed the point of what I was saying.

Bray may 'bust', but as a UDFA there is zero downside for the Chiefs. They signed a guy with a very high ceiling with little to no risk.

Whereas teams like Buffalo and the Jets risked a lot more by drafting their guys in the first 2 rounds, whose ceilings are not really that much higher, if any higher, than Brays.

In other words, the Chiefs were smart. If Bray flops, so what? You haven't really lost anything. I was complimenting them on their QB strategy, not criticizing.
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Old 05-03-2013, 10:15 PM   #48
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So you explain why you say Bray may bust by explaining how Bray can't be a bust.
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Old 05-03-2013, 10:20 PM   #49
TomBarndtsTwin TomBarndtsTwin is offline
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Originally Posted by Saccopoo View Post
There are no elite OT's in this draft either.
Unfortunately, a large number of NFL scouts disagree with you.

While no one is claiming Orlando Pace or Jonathan Ogden was in this draft, there certainly was and is 'elite' potential at the Tackle position.

There's a reason 3 of the first 4 picks were tackles and many other teams said those were the top guys on their draft boards.

It may not be 'sexy', but it is reality . . .
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Old 05-03-2013, 10:24 PM   #50
TomBarndtsTwin TomBarndtsTwin is offline
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Originally Posted by keg in kc View Post
So you explain why you say Bray may bust by explaining how Bray can't be a bust.


I was using the term 'bust' flippantly; apparently no one caught that.

Sorry, I'll turn up my sarcasm meter next time before I post.
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Old 05-03-2013, 10:25 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin View Post
I'm aware of this. Clearly, you missed the point of what I was saying.

Bray may 'bust', but as a UDFA there is zero downside for the Chiefs. They signed a guy with a very high ceiling with little to no risk.

Whereas teams like Buffalo and the Jets risked a lot more by drafting their guys in the first 2 rounds, whose ceilings are not really that much higher, if any higher, than Brays.

In other words, the Chiefs were smart. If Bray flops, so what? You haven't really lost anything. I was complimenting them on their QB strategy, not criticizing.
If Manuel and Smith have the same "ceiling" as Bray, then the difference must be that they are much more likely to get there. Bray wasn't passed on >5 times by every single team because he is basically the same as Geno Smith - he fell out of the draft becuase he's evidently got the intellect of a young domestic animal.

Make no mistake about it, the likelihood that Bray wins more than 2 or 3 NFL games is miniscule. It will be a miracle if he shows anything at NFL level.
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Old 05-03-2013, 10:29 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin View Post
I'm aware of this. Clearly, you missed the point of what I was saying.

Bray may 'bust', but as a UDFA there is zero downside for the Chiefs. They signed a guy with a very high ceiling with little to no risk.

Whereas teams like Buffalo and the Jets risked a lot more by drafting their guys in the first 2 rounds, whose ceilings are not really that much higher, if any higher, than Brays.

In other words, the Chiefs were smart. If Bray flops, so what? You haven't really lost anything. I was complimenting them on their QB strategy, not criticizing.
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Old 05-03-2013, 10:31 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin View Post
Unfortunately, a large number of NFL scouts disagree with you.

While no one is claiming Orlando Pace or Jonathan Ogden was in this draft, there certainly was and is 'elite' potential at the Tackle position.

There's a reason 3 of the first 4 picks were tackles and many other teams said those were the top guys on their draft boards.

It may not be 'sexy', but it is reality . . .
Because they went early doesn't make them elite.

I've heard it mentioned many times that these guys were late first rounders at best in any other draft.

Chiefs picked Fisher due to the situation with Albert. Period.

Very reminiscent of the pick of Baldwin. We had absolutely nobody behind Bowe and were forced to pick Baldwin at that spot.

Albert was franchised and being shopped. Chiefs thought that they had the deal done with Miami. They were going to take either Fisher or Joeckel no matter what. However, the Albert trade imploded on them and now they are stuck with a disgruntled Albert and a 1.1 who is looking at being the backup tackle on the team for the 2013 season.

Fisher was a FBS player with good measurable who had a good Senior Bowl. That's it. He wasn't an Okung or Thomas or guys like that who had not only the elite measurables but also the reps at the position in a major BCS conference against top pass rushers. The guy is a complete question mark at this point and I seriously doubt that he's going to beat out either Albert or Stephenson for either tackle spot in 2013 unless the Chiefs move Albert to LG and if they try it, I'm thinking that Albert holds out.
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Old 05-03-2013, 10:33 PM   #54
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I don't think the Chiefs ever believed they had the deal done with Miami, because Miami reportedly never offered more than a 3rd. Although I do think the Fisher pick was about Albert for a different reason: long-term contract leverage. Which makes it reminiscent of the Larry Johnson pick.
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Old 05-03-2013, 10:34 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by TomBarndtsTwin View Post
Unfortunately, a large number of NFL scouts disagree with you.

While no one is claiming Orlando Pace or Jonathan Ogden was in this draft, there certainly was and is 'elite' potential at the Tackle position.

There's a reason 3 of the first 4 picks were tackles and many other teams said those were the top guys on their draft boards.

It may not be 'sexy', but it is reality . . .
There's that word, "potential". What? I thought Joker and Fisher were "sure things"? Oh wait; there's no such thing and guess what? There WERE NO "elite" players at the top of this draft, at ANY position. But hey, we're the Chiefs. So lets create( or in this case FAIL to create)an uneccesary hole, and fill it with "potential" at Tackle! And-a-herp and-a-derp-and-derp-derp-derp!
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Old 05-03-2013, 10:34 PM   #56
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I suggest we wait until they actually play before determining whether they are "elite" or not, but I realise that's unfashionable.
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Old 05-03-2013, 10:35 PM   #57
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I don't think the Chiefs ever believed they had the deal done with Miami, because Miami reportedly never offered more than a 3rd. Although I do think the Fisher pick was about Albert for a different reason: long-term contract leverage. Which makes it reminiscent of the Larry Johnson pick.
And that's a GREAT reason to piss away a one/one on a Tackle! Woot!
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Old 05-03-2013, 10:36 PM   #58
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I suggest we wait until they actually play before determining whether they are "elite" or not, but I realise that's unfashionable.
Elite in the context of this discussion refers to the kind of prospect that they were. Non-elite prospects can still become elite players.
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Old 05-03-2013, 10:38 PM   #59
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If Manuel and Smith have the same "ceiling" as Bray, then the difference must be that they are much more likely to get there. Bray wasn't passed on >5 times by every single team because he is basically the same as Geno Smith - he fell out of the draft becuase he's evidently got the intellect of a young domestic animal.

Make no mistake about it, the likelihood that Bray wins more than 2 or 3 NFL games is miniscule. It will be a miracle if he shows anything at NFL level.
Agreed for the most part.

The reason Smith was drafted in the 2nd and Bray went undrafted has a lot more to do with the worst-case scenario, rather than the best.

But if the worst-case scenario plays itself out for both teams, who would you rather be? The Jets, who spent a second round pick on a guy that will never be more than average. Or the Chiefs, who signed an UDFA who is out of football in a couple years?

If the goal is always to obtain a "franchise" QB, which I believe it should be, then I would much rather be the Chiefs than the Jets.
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Old 05-03-2013, 10:40 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by keg in kc View Post
I don't think the Chiefs ever believed they had the deal done with Miami, because Miami reportedly never offered more than a 3rd. Although I do think the Fisher pick was about Albert for a different reason: long-term contract leverage. Which makes it reminiscent of the Larry Johnson pick.
Fisher is more than 6 years younger than Albert. Even is Albert signs another LTD, he will realistically be in KC what, another 3 or 4 seasons? At which point Fisher will only be in his mid 20s. Won't it be nice to not have Joe Slapdick playing LT like happened after Roaf retired?
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