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Old 04-21-2013, 08:49 PM  
Bump Bump is offline
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ACLU to Kansas school district: Cancel creationist assemblies about Dinosaurs

http://www.reddit.com/tb/1ct42w


The American Civil Liberties Union has warned a southwest Kansas school district against holding mandatory student assemblies that feature a creationist group.

“Teaching or otherwise promoting creationism is, simply put, unlawful,” the ACLU wrote in a letter to Hugoton Public Schools superintendent Mark Crawford on Friday. “As the District is surely aware, the federal courts have been unequivocally clear that efforts to inject religious beliefs regarding the origin of life into public school science curricula are constitutionally impermissible, no matter what form they take.”

Hugoton Public Schools invited Creation Truth Foundation’s founder Dr. G. Thomas Sharp to teach the “Truth about Dinosaurs” at two assemblies next week. At least one of the assemblies will be mandatory for all students and teachers.

The group has created teaching materials “explaining the origins, extinction and possible existence of dinosaurs” from a Biblical view and believes the dinosaur Tyrannosaurus rex walked the Earth as early as 100,000 years ago rather more than 65 million years ago. In a lecture uploaded to YouTube last year, Sharp criticized scientists for ignoring the great flood of the Bible.

“We respectfully request the District take immediate and concrete steps to remedy these problems,” the ACLU concluded. “The first step would be to cancel the planned mandatory school assemblies now set for next week.”

However, superintendent Crawford has said he will not call off the assemblies. He told The Kansas City Star the assemblies will not promote creationism, despite the beliefs and mission of the Creation Truth Foundation.

“I agree with the ACLU, in that, if a mandatory all-school assembly where creationist truths or creationist beliefs were expressed, that would be inappropriate public-school content, and that is not the case,” Crawford said. “It’s completely and totally school appropriate.”
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Old 04-24-2013, 03:24 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by KILLER_CLOWN View Post
He's french man, that disqualifies his opinion right there.
Francis Collins is not French. Neither was Francis of Assisi.
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Old 04-24-2013, 03:25 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by Wildcat2005 View Post
Darwin didnt know about the mechanism of evolution, he was observing natural selection
The theory of evolution did not come from Darwin

Also the eye comment is possibly the most taken out of context quote I can think of from any author

He asks himself a rhetorical question and then in the next paragraph goes on to answer it. He did not ever suggest the human eye refuted changes in hereditary traits, he simply explained how something seemingly irreducible(like an eye) is actually not
Really? That's interesting. I was sure that stevieray had actually read a book by Charles Darwin and understood its context.
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Old 04-24-2013, 03:26 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by Fish View Post
I understand that in religious "Teachings" it's common for stories to be told by one person, and simply be accepted as fact by the rest. But that's not how it works with Science. Evolution didn't "Come from" Darwin. Darwin simply proposed one theory to explain the factual observations of evolution. And that theory has been updated and tweaked and added to ever since, by millions of other scientists making their own observations.

Also, he didn't flunk out of seminary or med school. He quit because it didn't interest him. It was not because he was not capable. He disliked the religious BS. Saying:
Really? That's interesting. I was sure that stevieray had actually studied the life of Charles Darwin and knew his biography well enough to teach us lessons about him.
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Old 04-24-2013, 03:31 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
Francis Collins is not French. Neither was Francis of Assisi.
What would it matter if he was I assumed it was feeble attempt at a joke. I do not take that poster seriously due to his open alliance with a charlatan like Hovind~
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Old 04-24-2013, 03:35 PM   #170
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To me, the most exasperating thing about the whole debate is that evolution and religion don't have to be mutually exclusive. Whether a person is a theist or an atheist has nothing to with whether or not the theory of evolution correctly describes the process by which life forms change over time. There are other reasons that drive people to one set of beliefs over the other.
I think this bears repeating. People who understand science wouldn't be up in arms about this if religious people were simply trying to spread the word of God and urging other people to join their church. The problem comes when religious people try to re-write the science textbooks and attempt to get their religious beliefs taught in public schools instead of the real, actual, practical science that our students need to learn and understand if we are going to maintain our position as world leaders.

If you choose to deny evolution, fine. If you choose to tell everyone in your churches and in your private schools that evolution doesn't happen and that every word in the Bible is literally true, that's fine too. But to try to take over the public schools and replace scientific fact with religious belief is the thing that is so infuriating. I don't want to go to a doctor who doesn't understand basic Biology because the religious Right prevented him from learning about things that make them uncomfortable.
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Old 04-24-2013, 05:18 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by KILLER_CLOWN View Post
It's all the same to the untrained atheist.
Untrained?

I'm glad you acknowledge that it's through training (likely parental) , and not critical thought, that you reached your hilarious conclusions about science.
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Old 04-24-2013, 05:24 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by Wildcat2005 View Post
Darwin didnt know about the mechanism of evolution, he was observing natural selection
The theory of evolution did not come from Darwin
While this is true, these folks have no desire to be educated on the facts.

They were trained and taught to reject evolution before they learned anything about it. Some people think critically, and some accept things entirely on an authoritarian basis.

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Old 04-24-2013, 05:27 PM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
Really? That's interesting. I was sure that stevieray had actually read a book by Charles Darwin and understood its context.
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High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 04-24-2013, 05:34 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by Brainiac View Post
I think this bears repeating. People who understand science wouldn't be up in arms about this if religious people were simply trying to spread the word of God and urging other people to join their church. The problem comes when religious people try to re-write the science textbooks and attempt to get their religious beliefs taught in public schools instead of the real, actual, practical science that our students need to learn and understand if we are going to maintain our position as world leaders.

If you choose to deny evolution, fine. If you choose to tell everyone in your churches and in your private schools that evolution doesn't happen and that every word in the Bible is literally true, that's fine too. But to try to take over the public schools and replace scientific fact with religious belief is the thing that is so infuriating. I don't want to go to a doctor who doesn't understand basic Biology because the religious Right prevented him from learning about things that make them uncomfortable.
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Originally Posted by Chris616 View Post
High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 04-24-2013, 07:15 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by Fish View Post
It's not my opinion. It's the collectively agreed opinion of hundreds of thousands of scientists that has been in formation for several hundred years. Proof for evolution has been provided, but you've proven unable to understand it. In this thread already, you've shown that you don't know the difference between a theory as it applies to normal conversation, and a Scientific theory, as it applies to explaining factual observations about the world. That's a very fundamental step toward understanding the scientific process.
Wait a minute, the post that this is in response to was in response to my political conspiracy theories. So now what exactly are we talking about?

Quote:
You keep saying that evolution has its flaws, but every time I've asked, you've run away and refused to answer. So I'll ask again, what are the flaws you've found with evolution? Let's discuss them.
I just went back through this thread twice, and of your 9 current posts in the discussion no where have I seen where you have asked me about the flaws I find with evolution. So you are making **** up. If you care to retract your accusation that I have been dodging your questions, I will be more than happy to answer, now that you have actually asked.
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Old 04-24-2013, 07:39 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by Raiderhader View Post
Wait a minute, the post that this is in response to was in response to my political conspiracy theories. So now what exactly are we talking about?



I just went back through this thread twice, and of your 9 current posts in the discussion no where have I seen where you have asked me about the flaws I find with evolution. So you are making **** up. If you care to retract your accusation that I have been dodging your questions, I will be more than happy to answer, now that you have actually asked.
Have you found flaws with the scientific evidence for evolution?
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Old 04-24-2013, 07:59 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
Actually they are. A scientific theory is different than the generic term used by most. This basic lack of understanding of the simplest of differences is one reason people get so frustrated when debating topics such as this. Gravity is only a theory. Einstein must be an idiot.
Except when it's not. Point in case: the global warming debate has two schools of scientific thought. Basically one side says it exists and the other side says the opposite. Now both sides use factual data to formulate their conclusions. So both, by the standard you and others are suggesting, are scientific theory, or fact or truth or what have you. The two theories cannot both be right as they are diametrically opposed to one another. Thus, scientific theory as you and others claim it to be, is nothing more than a regular ol' theory in and of itself.

As I stated in my case last night in regards to the Piltdown Man hoax, scientists have been known in the past to falsify data and evidence (and not just in that single case) in order to promote their beliefs or agendas. The claim that science is entirely about the search for truth is yet another common theory. It should be that but, has on many occasion fallen short of that lofty mark. Just because someone creates the term "scientific theory" (however pure the original intent may have been) on some data does not automatically make it fact.

Contrary to the accusations made; I fully grasp the concept of scientific theory.

I also fully understand word and mind games, as well as the general art of deception.

Quote:
Your issue seems to be that you think evolution is contradictory to creation or believing in God. (I could be wrong on this though). The only thing it contradicts from a religious perspective is a literal interpretation of the Bible. But guess what? Virtually everything contradicts that and there is really no debating that.
Bold 1. Incorrect. My problem with evolution is evolution itself. As I said last night, at one point in my life I actively looked at evolution with a complete open mind in search of answers to nagging questions I could not sweep aside. Evolution was never able to prove itself to me.

Bold 2. Your opinion.

Quote:
This is what evolution looks like if the present equals 112.

1 + x = 3, 3 + 2x = 7, 7 + 3x = 13, 13 + 4x = 21, 21 + 5x = 31, 31 + 6x = 44, 44 + 7x = 58, 58 + 8x = 74, 74 + 9x = 92, 92 + 10x = 112.

All the numbers are evidence and facts of things that existed and we can observe for which there is no debating. X with its multiplier represents the so called "missing links" and "holes" in the theory. These would be transitional fossils. We can see the clear transition from 1 to 7 because we have 3 in the middle. But there will always be transitions between those.

And you can't prove there are not even more transitions between the 1 and 3 other than x because you cannot prove a negative. i.e. I can NEVER prove there is NOT animal 1.5 between 1 and x but that does not mean the evolution from 1 to 3 and 1 to 7 and 1 to 112 is not clear. This is where many people cling to in order to try to falsify evolution. "You don't have everything!" Even if we did have everything, we could not know it or prove it because we cannot observe what does not exist. Just like we cannot prove Bigfoot or the Loch Ness monster doesn't exist.

So although we don't have each and every transitional fossil (we certainly have a lot, if not most of them though), it is pretty clear what each one should look like because we have the factual information of its ancestor and decendent as well as the multiplier representing other facts such as where it was found. But that is the great part. Sometimes x IS found, which turns out to be as predicted by the theory, providing further evidence that the theory as it is, is correct. So x is found well now we need to find the transition between 1 and x because it is predicted or the evidence shows that one could be there. But that doesn't mean the theory is wrong.

I think that this is a good way to show why evolution is "only" a theory.

Disclaimer: This is an analogy I kind of came up with on my own after seeing similar things in the past. But I do think it makes sense. At least to me it does!

All well and good. But the evidence that you and others suggest is there is not. The best case that can be made for evolution is in microevolution. There is no indisputable evidence of macroevolution. So, we are still left with nothing but a theory.
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Old 04-24-2013, 08:29 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
Have you found flaws with the scientific evidence for evolution?
Yes.
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Old 04-24-2013, 08:43 PM   #179
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Wow that is the worst misunderstanding of a scientific theory I've ever seen.

Global Warming is not a scientific theory. Its a hypothesis, completely different animal. A scientific theory is like the graduation of a hypothesis, once there is general and near complete agreement of testing by thousands of scientists world wide.
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High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 04-24-2013, 08:44 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by Raiderhader View Post
Yes.
Have you shared those flaws with us?
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