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Old 04-18-2013, 10:16 AM  
donkhater donkhater is offline
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Will the Boston bombers be hired by Columbia University?

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion...7PwFkbO1NheqNL

Tale of two terrorists
By JOHN M. MURTAGH

Last Updated: 12:46 AM, April 18, 2013

Posted: 11:54 PM, April 17, 2013

Somewhere near Boston early Monday morning, he packed a bomb in a bag. It was by all accounts relatively crude — a pressure cooker, explosives, some wires, ball bearings and nails . . . nails which, hours later, doctors would struggle to remove from the flesh of bleeding victims.

His motive is unclear. His intent is not: It was to maximize injury, suffering, pain, trauma and, yes, death.

Perhaps Monday’s bomber will be caught, perhaps not.

Perhaps Monday’s bomber will be offered a teaching job at Columbia University.

Forty-three years ago last month, Kathy Boudin, now a professor at Columbia but then a member of the Weather Underground, escaped an explosion at a bomb factory operated in a townhouse in Greenwich Village. The story is familiar to people of a certain age.

Three weeks earlier, Boudin’s Weathermen had firebombed a private home in Upper Manhattan with Molotov cocktails. Their target was my father, a New York state Supreme Court justice. The rest of the family, was presumably, an afterthought. I was 9 at the time, only a year older than the youngest victim in Boston.

One of Boudin’s colleagues, Cathy Wilkerson, related in her memoir that the Weathermen were disappointed with the minimal effects of the bombs at my home. They decided to use dynamite the next time and bought a large quantity along with fuses, metal pipes and, yes, nails. The group designated as its next target a dance at an Officer’s Club at Fort Dix, NJ.

Despite the misgivings of some, it is reported that Kathy Boudin urged the use of “anti-personnel bombs.” In other words, she wanted to kill people not just damage property. Before they could act, her fellows were killed in the townhouse explosion. The townhouse itself collapsed; Boudin fled.

She reappeared over a decade later driving the getaway car for the rag tag mix of Weathermen and Black Panthers who held up a Rockland County bank in 1981, murdering three in the process. Survivors of the ambush along the New York State Thruway recount how Boudin emerged from the driver’s door, arms raised in surrender, asking the police to lower their guns. When they did, her accomplices burst from the back of the van guns blazing.

As I said, people of a certain age remember this history. For those that don’t, Robert Redford is kindly about to release a movie recounting the Rockland robbery (albeit relocated to Michigan). By all accounts, the film lionizes the Weather Underground terrorists, Boudin and her accomplices.

Perhaps to bring it full circle, Professor Boudin can soon guest-lecture at a film class at Columbia when the Redford movie is screened.

Other than the passage of time, one can find no real distinction between the cowardly actions of last Monday’s Boston murderer and the terror carried out by Boudin and her accomplices. Yet today we live in a country where our leading educational institutions see fit to trust our children’s education to murderers and Hollywood sees fit to celebrate terrorists.

The Web site of Columbia’s School of Social Work sums up Boudin’s past thus: “Dr. Kathy Boudin has been an educator and counselor with experience in program development since 1964, working within communities with limited resources to solve social problems.”

“Since 1964” — that would include the bombing of my house, it would include the anti-personnel devices intended for Fort Dix and it would include the dead policeman on the side of the Thruway in 1981.

Maybe, if he is caught, Monday’s bomber can explain that, like Boudin, he was merely working within the community to solve social problems.

Perhaps Monday’s bomber will be caught, perhaps not. Perhaps, some day, Monday’s bomber will be offered tenure at Columbia University.


Read more: Tale of two terrorists - NYPOST.com http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion...#ixzz2QpfEyg7r
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Old 04-18-2013, 01:36 PM   #76
BigChiefTablet BigChiefTablet is offline
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Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
That's not legally nor morally true. Manson hasn't murdered in decades because he hasn't had the ability. On the other hand, this Columbia instructor can commit acts of terrorism but chooses not to.

I'm fine with the line being drawn at the time of re-entering society. Since Manson has yet to re-enter and is still serving his sentence, I'm fine with calling him a murderer still.
So if they let Manson out in a couple of years and he gets a job at a university as a professor, you would have a problem if someone wrote a scathing editorial about it?
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Old 04-18-2013, 01:43 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
That's not legally nor morally true. Manson hasn't murdered in decades because he hasn't had the ability. On the other hand, this Columbia instructor can commit acts of terrorism but chooses not to.

I'm fine with the line being drawn at the time of re-entering society. Since Manson has yet to re-enter and is still serving his sentence, I'm fine with calling him a murderer still.
Actually, it is legally true. She is a convicted terrorist. I would be willing to bet she is on an FBI list of terrorists. Morally, since she is unrepentant about the crimes she has committed, she is a terrorist.

A convicted murderer is still a murderer, even after they are released from prison. You do not get to stop being a murderer because you grow old and your crime took place a long time ago.
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Old 04-18-2013, 01:43 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
I'm not saying to disconnect her past from her person. I am saying that her past does not indict her present. The difference between her and a member of Al Qaeda or the Boston terrorists is that she is no longer carrying out bad acts. Hopefully she has asked God for forgiveness. But even if she hadn't, she should not be accused of being a current terrorist.
I understood your point; that particular argument is what I found amusing. I agree with parts of what you're saying. Personally I would bet that her past is part of WHY she was hired at Columbia. IMO Academia loves rubbing elbows with old activists...I actually had a beer with Abbie Hoffman once while in college and the gushing by the attending professors was amazing.
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Old 04-18-2013, 01:48 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by BigChiefTablet View Post
I didn't fall for Bush's bullshit after 9/11. And I'm pretty sick of listening to people on both sides justify bad behavior by citing instances of the other party doing the same thing.
You must be so sick of it that you apply that criticism to posts to which it does not apply.
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Old 04-18-2013, 01:51 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by jettio View Post
You must be so sick of it that you apply that criticism to posts to which it does not apply.
Did you forget to include the quote from your own post where you did exactly that?
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Old 04-18-2013, 01:54 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy View Post
Actually, it is legally true. She is a convicted terrorist. I would be willing to bet she is on an FBI list of terrorists. Morally, since she is unrepentant about the crimes she has committed, she is a terrorist.

A convicted murderer is still a murderer, even after they are released from prison. You do not get to stop being a murderer because you grow old and your crime took place a long time ago.
Unrepentant, eh?

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Do I feel what I did was wrong? Yes. I want to be clear. I know that I am responsible for a terrible thing. I feel nothing but remorse and shame about my involvement. I will live with this for the rest of my life.

I pled guilty to robbery and felony murder for the death of a man who was a Brinks’ guard. My role was riding in a getaway car parked three miles from the robbery. Although I did not shoot nor hurt anyone physically and was never armed, I live every day with the knowledge that I am fully responsible – responsible because I supported the idea that this misguided robbery would make a positive difference, responsible because I was in a getaway car, and morally responsible for all the tragic consequences that resulted. Three people died; others suffered physically and emotionally; families were ripped apart; a whole town shaken. Now, in spite of my dream of helping to create a more humane society, I am forever connected to the deaths of innocent people. This connection has changed me. I will never be associated again with any act that places human lives at risk.

Part of what I share with other women here is that aching question, “Why?” Why did I make the life choices that brought me to prison? As I was growing up, I wanted to be a doctor, to help, to heal. Later, I was torn over whether to apply to medical school or law school. I thought the problems were social, and I wanted to heal society. I spent years working as a community educator feeling a responsibility to use the privileges of my background to help others. I felt the urgency to solve the problems that moved so many of my generation, but I became fixed on being certain that I had the correct solution, and I made some seriously wrong choices. Over time, I lost sight of the goal of healing.

After 12 years of living underground, I became rigidly committed to a grand vision of improving society that was not connected to the day-to-day realities of people. I felt strongly about existing problems, but I was seriously out of touch with how to work on them. By the time of my arrest, I was desperately trying to redefine myself and my life, to make major changes, but I did not carry it through. I have asked myself over and over again how could I, an adult, a person who was educated, a woman who saw myself guided by ideals of helping humanity, have gone out that day? I never wanted anyone to get hurt, yet the risks should have been obvious to me. My sense of the world and of myself was distorted.

People were killed and injured and I abandoned my son, whom I loved, at the baby-sitter. Now, after years of soul searching, I can see that a combination of my personal issues, wrong thinking, and the impact of years of isolation contributed to my moral failures.

-Kathy Bodin
February 2001

http://thestrugglefortheworld.wordpr...s-and-remorse/
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Twenty-two years ago I was arrested after a horrific robbery of a Brinks truck in Rockland County, New York, that left three people dead, others injured, and enormous suffering among families, community, and police. I was propelled into a life that would forever be defined by remorse. At my sentencing, I turned and apologized to the families of all of the victims for their pain and loss. But remorse is not a moment or a single act: it is timeless, connecting the past, the present, and the future. It is a way of life. It is like the skin on your body—something that you wear forever.

[...]

My work in prison has been to go beyond the legal definitions and limited nature of what I did to fully embrace the enormity of my human responsibility: I supported and was part of a robbery that risked and then destroyed human life. I am morally responsible for all the tragic consequences that flowed from that.

[...]

I am not the woman who was arrested twenty-two years ago. I am a mother deeply connected to the world, whose child, now a young man, has led me over and over to understand the nature of loss and love. Remorse will always guide me. It is a very personal journey with stops along the way. It is a road with no end.

We prisoners are responsible for our process of repentance. It is a journey toward inner freedom. Yet, throughout life, human beings always look to others to support and encourage the best in ourselves, and as prisoners we look to society to acknowledge our change, to welcome us back, to complete the human circle, to make redemption possible as we join our families and community outside the prison gates in freedom.
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:05 PM   #82
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Did you forget to include the quote from your own post where you did exactly that?
I think I was making the point that it is not wrong for the government to respond to a real life event, at the same time I was making the point that patteeu seemed to once believe the same thing but now he thinks it is wrong.

You can think the government should have done nothing in response to Newtown and 9/11 but you ought to actually read something more carefully so that you don't misunderstand it and then post some angry criticism that does not apply.
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:11 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by jettio View Post
Since this topic has been bouncing around the right wing blogs for a couple of weeks, it shows that the editoralist exercises bad judgment and poor taste to try to rehash the story because of the bombings in Boston.

The bombing at his house 43 years ago apparently damaged their property and made them scared. In Boston 3 people died and dozens lost limbs and 100+ had to go to the hospital. That was three days ago.

All things considered, pretty crappy way to pump up a story.

It is like this editorialist sees the attack in Boston as some kind of lucky break for him in his effort to get this chick fired.
Doesn't seem like bad judgement to me. Seems timely considering current events.
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:12 PM   #84
BigChiefTablet BigChiefTablet is offline
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Originally Posted by jettio View Post
I think I was making the point that it is not wrong for the government to respond to a real life event, at the same time I was making the point that patteeu seemed to once believe the same thing but now he thinks it is wrong.

You can think the government should have done nothing in response to Newtown and 9/11 but you ought to actually read something more carefully so that you don't misunderstand it and then post some angry criticism that does not apply.
Pretty sure Patteeu said (and I'm paraphrasing here) that this administration was standing on the graves of the victims of several tragedies and opportunistically pushing an agenda. And you responded with "Bush did it too" with 9/11.
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:19 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by BigChiefTablet View Post
Pretty sure Patteeu said (and I'm paraphrasing here) that this administration was standing on the graves of the victims of several tragedies and opportunistically pushing an agenda. And you responded with "Bush did it too" with 9/11.
That's a fair interpretation.
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Old 04-18-2013, 03:19 PM   #86
La literatura La literatura is offline
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Originally Posted by BigChiefTablet View Post
So if they let Manson out in a couple of years and he gets a job at a university as a professor, you would have a problem if someone wrote a scathing editorial about it?
I don't think Manson should get out in a couple of years, so I would have multiple problems with it.
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Old 04-18-2013, 03:20 PM   #87
La literatura La literatura is offline
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Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy View Post
Actually, it is legally true. She is a convicted terrorist. I would be willing to bet she is on an FBI list of terrorists. Morally, since she is unrepentant about the crimes she has committed, she is a terrorist.
Link?
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Old 04-18-2013, 03:22 PM   #88
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Unrepentant, eh?



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Interesting. I'm afraid mnchiefsguy is the type of person who just makes shit up.
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Old 04-18-2013, 03:38 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by BigChiefTablet View Post
Pretty sure Patteeu said (and I'm paraphrasing here) that this administration was standing on the graves of the victims of several tragedies and opportunistically pushing an agenda. And you responded with "Bush did it too" with 9/11.
I responded by questioning whether there was a gun control left. read the first paragraph.

I then responded that the people in Newtown and relatives of other murder victims wanted to be heard. Read the next one sentence paragraph.

I then responded directly to patteeu with the final paragraph that reads:

"Seems to me that there were no plans to work on any federal gun control legislation until Newtown, but a lot of legislation followed 9/11, and you fell for every B*sh policy whose primary rationale was, "The world changed on 9/11." In a lot of cases that would be a proper justification, shame that B*sh let D*ck Ch*ney run things and D*ck Ch*ney proved to be a collossal dumbazz."


I don't think that bringing the Newtown families and the families of other murder victims, and Gabby Giffords to Washington is bad behavior. Why do you think it is?

Those people suffered serious loss in their families and they are willing advocates for something they believe in.

Do you think they are being enslaved or unwillingly exploited?

Do you think they should not have any say at all?

If this is the day for getting sick of something. I am kind of sick of you thinking that you are the only one that knows anything at all.

You posted a criticism that did not apply and for some unknown reason you want to stand by it. How about stay away from quoting and characterizing my posts when you are too lazy to read them and characterize them correctly in the first place.
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Old 04-18-2013, 03:40 PM   #90
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That's a fair interpretation.
Just because he is an idiot does not mean that you have to threaten shoving your thumb up his azz. NTTAWWT boys.
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