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Old 04-17-2013, 04:51 PM  
Taco John Taco John is offline
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Expanded background checks for gun sales fails in Senate

Expanded background checks for gun sales fails in Senate, delivering blow to Newtown families and Obama

WASHINGTON – Compromise legislation to expand mandatory background checks for gun sales -- a key element of the federal response to the elementary school massacre in Newtown, Conn. – failed Wednesday afternoon in the US Senate.

The inability of President Obama and Democratic leaders to round up the required 60 votes in favor of enhanced background checks dealt a striking defeat to a major initiative of the president’s second term, falling short despite numerous pleas and trips to Washington by families of the Sandy Hook Elementary School victims, whose children were murdered five months ago by a lone gunman with a semi-automatic assault rifle.

The Senate voted Wednesday afternoon to block the first of nine amendments to Obama’s gun control bill, a compromise forged between senators Joe Manchin, a Democrat from West Virginia, and Pat Toomey, a Republican from Pennsylvania to expand background checks for gun buyers.

Despite the bipartisan negotiations, the amendment failed when only 54 senators voted to proceed, falling six votes short. All New England senators voted yes except for Senator Kelly Ayotte, a Republican from New Hampshire.

“Shame on you!” a spectator in the gallery yelled out in the chamber, prompting a gavel for order.

Erica Lafferty, 27, the daughter of Dawn Hochsprung, principal of Sandy Hook who lost her life in the shooting, said she was disappointed by the vote “but the fact that it got to the floor is good.”

“I’m confident that it will be back, and I also know that I will be here when it does come back,” Lafferty said. “We’re not going away.”

Senator John McCain, an Arizona Republican, praised Manchin and Toomey for their efforts during the debate preceding the series of votes.

“You did the right thing,” McCain said. “What they have tried to do today I think is an act that should be appreciated by those of us who many times avoid taking the tough decisions.”

Senator Christopher Murphy, a Connecticut Democrat in favor of gun control, spoke out against the outsized influence of the gun lobby.

“The longer that I’ve spent in this place, the more I’m convinced that there are people who actually do believe that we should just go back to the days of the wild, wild west,” Murphy said, “that we should usher in a new era of gun control Darwinism in which the good guys have guns, the bad guns, and we just hope that the good guys shoot the bad guys.”

Because of senate procedural rules, a 60-vote threshhold was required for each of the nine amendments to proceed. The other amendments include an assault weapons ban and limits on high capacity magazines.

The gun debate has been marked by intense lobbying on both sides, big-spending influence campaigns targeting individual senators, and some vitriolic attacks, particularly by some groups opposed to firearms restrictions.

Groups beyond the National Rifle Association, the traditional representative of the gun lobby, have played a major role in the debate. The National Association for Gun Rights used email alerts, online videos, and a Facebook page to convey mocking imagery that targeted individual senators.

In a series of Facebook posts, the group showed Obama as a puppeteer, controlling the strings of Toomey. Stamped in red ink is, “Toomey Sold Out Your Gun Rights.”

The gun rights group similarly depicted all 16 Republicans who voted last week to prevent a GOP filibuster and move forward on the gun legislation debate. The 16 also are shown with their faces on sticks, tagged by Facebook users with unfriendly names. Senator Lamar Alexander, of Tennessee, is “Socialist.” Senator Tom Coburn, of Oklahoma, is “communist #9.” Senator John Hoeven, of South Dakota, is “Judas Bastard.”

Senator Kelly Ayotte, of New Hampshire, is “liberal [expletive] 1” while Senator Susan Collins, of Maine, is “liberal [expletive] 2.”

Polls show that nearly 90 percent of Americans support a strong system of background checks for gun purchases. But the looming failure of gun-control legislation illustrates how vocal minorities are exerting strong influence on congressional debates by targeting individual senators with outside pressure, channeled through Internet organizing.

Some of that organizing directly targets senators who seek compromise.

“NO DEALS, NO GUN CONTROL,” the National Association for Gun Rights blasts on its website.

Few have experienced as much heat as Collins, a Maine Republican who has built a reputation for being moderate and open to compromise. A host of groups in recent days have taken out ads in Maine trying to win her over, including groups supporting gun-control legislation.

Organizing for Action, an offshoot of President Obama’s campaign network, ran an ad Friday on the Bangor Daily News website with this message: “Tell Senator Collins: It’s time to close background check loopholes.” That ad came a day after a full-page ad from the National Rifle Association that asked, “Will Obama’s gun control proposals actually work? His own experts say, ‘No.’”

The group on Monday posted a doctored and unflattering photo of Collins with her eyes bulging as if she were a zombie. Within an hour, 5,413 people liked it on Facebook and 490 people had commented on it.

Senator Rand Paul, a Kentucky Republican, Wednesday morning criticized the president for using the Newtown, Conn., families “as props.”

At a breakfast with reporters sponsored by the Christian Science Monitor, he said the legislation would not have prevented the Sandy Hook shootings, and he criticized the vote as being mostly for show.

“A lot of things in Washington are window dressing, it’s a dog and pony show, it’s a parade, it’s theatrics, it’s histrionics, all to show people that something bad happened — which it did. Something terribly tragic happened,” he said.

But, he added, “None of the proposals really would have addressed the tragedy.”

http://www.boston.com/politicalintel...E3M/story.html
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:59 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by whoman69 View Post
Congratulations Senate. You just decided that in the light of the attacks on Sandy Hook the best action is to do nothing.
Even if they voted for it, it would still do nothing. That's what you guys just don't get.
Conn had strict gun control laws and it didn't stop anything. It went back to a negligent parent.
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:01 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Even if they voted for it, it would still do nothing. That's what you guys just don't get.
Conn had strict gun control laws and it didn't stop anything. It went back to a negligent parent.
Some people just want to do something, even if that something doesn't really do anything.
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:04 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
90% of Americans want universal background checks. 88% of NRA members want universal background checks. Yet, the Republicans decided to filibuster a bill that was the will of the people. Not even allow a majority vote.

The founders were in no way designing a system that corporate and big money would take over the democratic system and thwart the will of the people. We have lost our democratic way.
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:05 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by seaofred View Post
Some people just want to do something, even if that something doesn't really do anything.
Precisely!
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:06 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Even if they voted for it, it would still do nothing. That's what you guys just don't get.
Conn had strict gun control laws and it didn't stop anything. It went back to a negligent parent.
I'm a strong supporter of the 2nd amendment. We already do background checks on the majority of gun sales. I just don't see the big deal with opposing background checks since its already done daily. No real big deal to me either way.

I'm more disappointed in our system. Or the current way that it functions.
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:09 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
90% of Americans want universal background checks. 88% of NRA members want universal background checks. Yet, the Republicans decided to filibuster a bill that was the will of the people. Not even allow a majority vote.
That seems to be bullshit—but Constitutional rights being infringed is not for the majority to decide. Let the states handle the mental health aspects if you need to. That claim, comes from a university poll I believe. Those aren't that accurate to my knowledge.

If you measure gun control support by media coverage the gun controllers appear to be winning.
However, the anti gun controllers are holding their own if measured by wins and losses. Polls, per this, show support for new gun laws dropping steadily.

Quote:
Makers of the rifles cannot fill back orders. A number of Americans seem so fearful of new restrictions on their gun rights they are stocking up on weapons and ammunition as though the revolution were at hand.

Going back further, gun sales have soared in recent years. According to CNS News, there have been 70 million FBI background checks for gun purchases since February 2009.

In the last two decades, many states have passed laws allowing citizens to carry concealed weapons and reduced the number of sites where weapons may not be carried.

Gun manufacturers like Beretta in Maryland and Colt in Connecticut are talking about moving to more friendly states.

http://www.humanevents.com/2013/04/1...g-the-gun-war/
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:11 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
I'm a strong supporter of the 2nd amendment. We already do background checks on the majority of gun sales. I just don't see the big deal with opposing background checks since its already done daily. No real big deal to me either way.
Then why do you need more of them, when it hasn't stopped anyone?

Quote:
I'm more disappointed in our system. Or the current way that it functions.
Here, the system worked because of checks and balances. The senate is supposed to be the most deliberative body. This was never going to pass the House.

Obama is a demagogue who can't be trusted. He's an incrementalist exploiting a tragedy.
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:18 AM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
90% of Americans want universal background checks. 88% of NRA members want universal background checks. Yet, the Republicans decided to filibuster a bill that was the will of the people. Not even allow a majority vote.

The founders were in no way designing a system that corporate and big money would take over the democratic system and thwart the will of the people. We have lost our democratic way.
90% my ass. Do you really believe that bullshit?
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:38 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by Douchemaster General View Post
90% my ass. Do you really believe that bullshit?
Doesn't matter what I believe. The polls exist. You can call them skewed but the poll #'s are consistent.

89%
http://www.politicspa.com/mcallmuhle...-checks/47491/

90%
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-...ground-checks/

91%
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/9...-politics.html

86%
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...or-immigrants/

and so on and so on

I agree that these recent gun proposals are emotion based on what happened at sandy Hook. And none of the proposals would have prevented Sandy Hook.
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:41 AM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
I'm a strong supporter of the 2nd amendment. We already do background checks on the majority of gun sales. I just don't see the big deal with opposing background checks since its already done daily. No real big deal to me either way.

I'm more disappointed in our system. Or the current way that it functions.


"Strong supporters" won't give an inch, because they know if they do non supporters will take a mile.

If someone is "strong supporter of the 2nd amendment" they are by definition defenders of this right and have commited to do so.

Once the flood gates open there's no getting it back. "Strong supporters" aren't willing to chance that and to them it is a really big deal either way.
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:42 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
Doesn't matter what I believe. The polls exist. You can call them skewed but the poll #'s are consistent.

89%
http://www.politicspa.com/mcallmuhle...-checks/47491/

90%
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-...ground-checks/

91%
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/9...-politics.html

86%
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...or-immigrants/

and so on and so on

I agree that these recent gun proposals are emotion based on what happened at sandy Hook. And none of the proposals would have prevented Sandy Hook.
I don't trust or believe any of this bullshit. And clearly neither did the poll-driven senators who voted no.
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Old 04-18-2013, 11:01 AM   #237
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Polling people who do not have the first clue of the current laws is an exercise in insanity.

Drawing a conclusion from the result is just stupidity.
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Old 04-18-2013, 11:04 AM   #238
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I would very much like to see the exact wording of the questions.
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Old 04-18-2013, 11:11 AM   #239
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I would very much like to see the exact wording of the questions.
This. It's all in the wording.
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Old 04-18-2013, 11:14 AM   #240
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
I'm a strong supporter of the 2nd amendment. We already do background checks on the majority of gun sales. I just don't see the big deal with opposing background checks since its already done daily. No real big deal to me either way.


If the second amendment is depending on self proclaimed "strong supporters" such as yourself, it will eventually cease to exist. You're far from a "strong" second amendment defender, but go ahead and continue to put on the suit if it makes you feel better about yourself. Half our politicians are pretending to be something they aren't, why shouldn't the sheep.
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