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Old 04-10-2013, 10:29 PM  
Taco John Taco John is offline
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Obama calls for cigarette tax hike of 94 cents a pack

At least he's paying it too, I suppose.


Obama calls for cigarette tax hike of 94 cents a pack

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) — President Obama’s call for a 94-cent-a-pack hike on federal cigarette taxes to fund early childhood education programs is controversial.

Anti-smoking groups applaud the proposal, but some tax experts and tobacco companies are against it.

The case for the tax. The tax is being presented as way to fund education and reduce smoking rates. It would raise roughly $78 billion over 10 years.
“The proposed tobacco tax increase would have substantial public health benefits, particularly for young Americans,” the president’s budget read. “Researchers have found that raising taxes on cigarettes significantly reduces consumption, with especially large effects on youth smoking.”

After a 62-cent-a-pack tax hike was passed in 2009, cigarette sales dropped by 10%, according to the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids.

There’s also little doubt that fewer people smoking is a good thing for society. Costs related to smoking amount to $193 billion a year in both direct medical payments and lost productivity, according to a Centers for Disease Control study done during the early part of the last decade. Smoking kills about 443,000 people each year.

Passing the tax “would be a giant step toward winning the fight against tobacco, the nation’s number one cause of preventable death,” Matthew Myers, president of the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids, said in a statement.
Why it may be a bad idea. The biggest argument against the tax is that it will fund early childhood education on the backs of the poor. Not only is the tax not progressive – it does not go up the more money one makes — but a higher percent of smokers are middle or low income.

The median household income for a smoker in 2011 was $27,700 compared to $45,761 for nonsmokers, according to Reynolds American, a cigarette maker which is, unsurprisingly, against the tax.

Nearly half of all smokers had a household income of less than $25,000 a year. Meanwhile, under 15% of smokers had a household income over $75,000.
“The idea of increasing taxes on low- to middle-income Americans at this time is ludicrous,” Bryan Hatchell, a spokesman for Reynolds American, said in a statement. “The effect of the payroll tax increase this year, along with higher gas and food prices, have hit hard millions of Americans who are simply trying to keep their heads above water financially.”

Anti-smoking groups counter that the poor are especially vulnerable to smoking’s ill effects, as they often lack healthcare and are less prepared financially to deal with an illness.

Cigarette taxes across the nation. Many smokers already pay a high tax rate for cigarettes. The current federal tax rate is $1.01 a pack, but the taxes don’t stop there. So Obama is proposing an increase to $1.95 a pack.
Some states and municipalities have also used cigarette taxes as a cash cow for years. In New York City, the country’s highest-tax area, combined state and local taxes add up to $5.85 a pack, according to the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids. In Manhattan, a pack of cigarettes can cost $14, while at an airport duty free shop they can be as low as $3 or $4 a pack.

But the taxes are low in other states. In Missouri, state taxes are just 17 cents a pack. The average price of a pack of cigarettes nationwide is $6, with taxes making up $2.49 of that.

Some economists question how wise it is to fund what will presumably be a long term program — early childhood education — with revenue that will likely fall over time. About 20% of Americans smoke, a number that has dropped considerably over the past several decades. The tax itself is specifically designed to get people to stop buying cigarettes.

Others say that while the tax won’t be to much of a burden on the overall economy, it will hit smokers and those that work in the industry hard. They say the president could raise far more money by focusing on spending cuts.
“It’s excellent politics, but it doesn’t make good economics,” said William McBride, chief economist at the Tax Foundation, a think tank that advocates for lower taxes.

http://wqad.com/2013/04/10/obama-cal...-cents-a-pack/
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:31 PM   #91
Cephalic Trauma Cephalic Trauma is offline
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It's not the government's job to protect people from themselves.
How about from the rest of us? I don't want to pay for someone who develops a chronic condition because they smoke a pack a day.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:33 PM   #92
Comrade Crapski Comrade Crapski is offline
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But isn't Dear Leader "oppressing" smokers with this targeted tax?
Well, they are being treated unjustly and unfairly.

I'll have to defer to the expert, Mr. Tegu, on this one.

nI any event It's for The Children™ so I'm sure the integrity behind this is impeccable.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:36 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Cephalic Trauma View Post
A. Ask him.
B. It didn't pass.
So, did you think it was a bad idea?
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:37 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Cephalic Trauma View Post
And so does everybody else.

Meaning, if you get COPD, Emphysema, cancer, etc. when you are older based on your own doing (smoking has a causal effect), the system will pay for you. Thus, you cost the system more in the long run by self-destructing now.

Same with obesity.
Not so fast Selfish healthy burden on society man! !

http://weakonomics.com/2009/04/14/ci...lthcare-costs/

Last year a Dutch study was published in the Public Library of Science Medicine journal that claimed the average healthcare costs for a smoker from age 20 until death was $326,000. The average cost for a healthy non-smoker from 20 to death was $417,000. That means being healthy costs $91,000 more of the extent of your life! "

So according to the study if saving money on healthcare is the goal, we should be encouraging everyone to smoke so they can die sooner and thus save money for the selfish healthy people and their medical bills as they linger on an extra decade as a non productive member of society..
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:37 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Cephalic Trauma View Post
Yeah, see now this gets a little more complex. The sexual dimorphic nucleus is based on environmental factors in the womb, and being dimorphic, it is malleable during development. We used to this it was very black and white (male vs. female), but evidence suggests more of a continuum of traits.

Now, as far as alcoholism and celibacy (NOT sexual preference, because those are not the same), those complex behaviors are both polygenic and influenced by environmental factors, which makes those extremely hard to characterize in the brain. You can have an interplay between a multitude of areas in the brain that ultimately will dictate their outward manifestation.
Abstinence is a behavioral option that can negate a possible behavioral choice driven by alcoholism. Celibacy is a behavioral option that can negate a possible behavioral choice driven by your sexual preference (whether that preference is for the opposite sex, the same sex, a child, etc.).
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:38 PM
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:46 PM   #96
Mr. Flopnuts Mr. Flopnuts is offline
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How much is a carton of Marlboros these days, how many packs in a carton, and what would be the total cost if each pack was taxed an additional .94?
Just so happens that is my brand. I pay around $45 a carton after sales and sin taxes. There are 10 packs in a carton, and the cost will go up $9.40 plus sales tax at around 8%. It's important we pay tax on our tax. So the cost will be close to $57 a carton with this increase. And MO has the cheapest taxes in the Nation on smokes. You won't find them any less from anyone besides the Indians. When I lived in WA state I bought them from the Indians. Right when they hit about $60 a carton, I could go get them for $40. Still can. And I will if this goes through. Unless I quit first of course.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:51 PM   #97
Cephalic Trauma Cephalic Trauma is offline
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Abstinence is a behavioral option that can negate a possible behavioral choice driven by alcoholism. Celibacy is a behavioral option that can negate a possible behavioral choice driven by your sexual preference (whether that preference is for the opposite sex, the same sex, a child, etc.).
See, and that's the thing. The point of my post is gay is not a choice (sexually dimorphic nucleus) and is not wrong because it is between two consenting adults.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:51 PM   #98
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How about from the rest of us? I don't want to pay for someone who develops a chronic condition because they smoke a pack a day.
I don't want to pay for someone's kidney dialysis because they liked men getting balls deep in their colon.

I don't want to pay for an abortion, or a bastard born out of wedlock.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:53 PM   #99
Cephalic Trauma Cephalic Trauma is offline
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Not so fast Selfish healthy burden on society man! !

http://weakonomics.com/2009/04/14/ci...lthcare-costs/

Last year a Dutch study was published in the Public Library of Science Medicine journal that claimed the average healthcare costs for a smoker from age 20 until death was $326,000. The average cost for a healthy non-smoker from 20 to death was $417,000. That means being healthy costs $91,000 more of the extent of your life! "

So according to the study if saving money on healthcare is the goal, we should be encouraging everyone to smoke so they can die sooner and thus save money for the selfish healthy people and their medical bills as they linger on an extra decade as a non productive member of society..
Hmm interesting. Are these pack a day smokers, half-pack, I have one every now and then smokers? What were their lifestyles outside of smoking or non-smoking (control for exercise, healthy eating habits, other risky behaviors, etc)?

In other words, did they control for confounding variables in the study? And how many subjects did they have?

Thanks.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:56 PM   #100
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I don't want to pay for someone's kidney dialysis because they liked men getting balls deep in their colon.

I don't want to pay for an abortion, or a bastard born out of wedlock.
Are you saying gay men have poorer health outcomes?

What studies do you have that suggest that?
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:56 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by loochy View Post
Which of these things is not like the other?


Behavioral trait

Physical trait

Physical trait

Physical trait - although some DO choose this these days

Your argument might be better if you grouped gay in with angering easily or having a short attention span.
Trolololololololololololololol

People don't choose to be gay.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:58 PM   #102
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Trolololololololololololololol

People don't choose to be gay.
So whats your excuse queer?

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Old 04-11-2013, 01:03 PM   #103
Comrade Crapski Comrade Crapski is offline
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Originally Posted by Cephalic Trauma View Post
Are you saying gay men have poorer health outcomes?

What studies do you have that suggest that?
Well, you probably won't read it but what the hey:

http://catholiceducation.org/article...thrisksSSA.pdf
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:04 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by FishingRod View Post
Not so fast Selfish healthy burden on society man! !

http://weakonomics.com/2009/04/14/ci...lthcare-costs/

Last year a Dutch study was published in the Public Library of Science Medicine journal that claimed the average healthcare costs for a smoker from age 20 until death was $326,000. The average cost for a healthy non-smoker from 20 to death was $417,000. That means being healthy costs $91,000 more of the extent of your life! "

So according to the study if saving money on healthcare is the goal, we should be encouraging everyone to smoke so they can die sooner and thus save money for the selfish healthy people and their medical bills as they linger on an extra decade as a non productive member of society..
In addition to cephalic's questions, is this in the US or a country with universal healthcare?
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:07 PM   #105
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I wonder if this guy paid the tobacco tax???

http://abcnews.go.com/US/serial-kill...ry?id=18931582
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