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Old 04-03-2013, 11:35 AM  
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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U.S. sees highest poverty spike since the 1960s...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-spending.html
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:03 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post

I will still say, someone else's poverty is not due to someone else's wealth or tax bracket. So it doesn't solve the problem....unless you're a socialist redistributionist.
The only way to remove someone from poverty without government handouts is to increase wages. You have completely ignored that aspect to focus on tax brackets, which have more to do with government deficits.

Tax cuts though, have a negative effect on the economy though, so they do have to take the blame:


On the topic at hand though, the evidence is there that shows the only wealth distribution has been upwards, not socialist. Like seriously, you guys won that battle decades ago. You can stop the Red Scare.

How do you plan to lift up Americans from poverty if not by raising wages? And no, I don't want the government do that. There are other ways.
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:10 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Nice appeal to authority you got there. You really like those logical fallacies don't you? That doesn't debunk one thing.

So far from what I've seen, most ms economist twist it because they don't fully understand it. Johnny V is a good example of someone who thinks they understand Austrian economics when he doesn't really. You're different. With you, it's all appeal to authorities—the ones who are causing the messes we're in.

They're heads are so far up the Lord Keynes, a socialist himself, and the govt's arse, that they have to rely on ivory tower charts and graphs while ignoring the real world hustle and bustle about markets. They think economics is about mathematical models when it's really a social science because it's human action that is involved. This is the crux of problem.
One, simple, single question. Can you name one successful Country run on Austrian economics?
I'll go first Chile!
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-chichile.htm

Oh, wait, nope. Darn. Your turn

/is that an appeal to authority to?
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:13 PM   #48
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Playing the Appeal to Authority game with an Iguana that's lonely.

Specific kinds of voodoo economics that the political elites, such as Reich, believe still "play" to the public.

I agree with Bogart:
"The real problem with clowns like this is that all these practices were tried in the Soviet Union and failed miserably. "
http://mises.org/community/forums/p/19533/363166.aspx



Robert Reich and the Influence of Economic Fallacies

http://mises.ca/posts/blog/robert-re...mic-fallacies/

Quote:
Few have an understanding of economics quite like Robert Reich. One would have to sift through the furthest regions of stupidity to find a consistent stream of falsehoods to match his publishing record. Recently, the public policy professor has unleashed a tirade of economic sophisms that, like a majority of modern day economic reasoning, appear to be correct on the first glance but are dreadfully wrong with each returning inspection.

In carrying on with his unrelenting soak-the-rich campaign, he writes in a recent blog post:...
As I was saying, his thought stems from the class warfare of Marx.

Quote:
To heap even more evidence onto the theory that he holds an adolescent’s view of enterprise, Reich recently tweeted:
“Mr. Pres, when you meet w biz leaders today remember they’re not the job creators. The middle class creates jobs through their spending.”
And this is your authority you're appealing to Loneiguana?
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:15 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
One, simple, single question. Can you name one successful Country run on Austrian economics?
I'll go first Chile!
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-chichile.htm

Oh, wait, nope. Darn. Your turn
Chile was not really run on pure or true Austrian economics. I've done that debate before. You guys couldn't spot it even with binoculars on.

Quote:
/is that an appeal to authority to?
You mean you don't know, what it means?
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:17 PM   #50
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Robert Reich, Propagandist

An Austrian analysis of Reich's Video "The Truth About the Economy" called "The Truth About Robert Reich"

Hint: He gets everything backwards.

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Old 04-03-2013, 05:20 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
You know how I know you didn't watch the video?

Fact: The GDP has doubled in the last thirty years.
Fact: Worker Productivity has also climbed over the last thirty years.
Fact: Average worker compensation has remained stagnant over this same time period.



Where did the money go?



We have a poverty problem because the wages of the Average American has been stagnant for thirty years.

Or:
"The analysis above has shown that from 1973 to 2011, the largest factor driving the gap between productivity and median compensation has been the growing inequality of wages and compensation, followed by the divergence of consumer and output prices and the shift of income from labor to capital. From 2000 to 2011, when the productivity-median compensation gap grew the fastest, the divergence of prices had only a modest impact, whereas the shift from labor to capital income was the single largest factor, accounting for roughly 45 percent of the gap."

More info and charts can be found here:
http://www.epi.org/publication/ib330...-compensation/
http://acivilamericandebate.com/2011...me-inequality/

/I must of missed the communist Rhetoric
//perhaps wealth redistribution could be defined as increasing monetary gain off the backs of your employees without increasing wages.
///Honestly I think we agree on this subject more than you think
So you want to blame a trend that started in 1971 on something that happened in 1981?
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:23 PM   #52
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Love the commments under the "The Truth About Robert Reich"
Tom Insko
Good work, Bob. It is far more convenient for American socialists like Reich and Krugman to blame the rich than to acknowledge certain facts. The facts that the welfare state, failed and expensive government education, and military Keynesian stimulus are sea anchors to our economy must be ignored by the left. Will taxing the rich make American labor more competitive with Chinese, Korean, or Vietnamese workers? The establishment Republicans are only slightly less disingenuous.

Tom Woods also responds:


Quote:
I will reply only to the last sentence of this, since I have dealt with the rest of these conventional arguments elsewhere. [Moi Aussi]

The rich are manifestly not rich only because of "the work of those at the bottom." To the contrary, those at the bottom enjoy such a comfortable standard of living in capitalist countries (and the poor suffer the fewest material deprivations in those countries where the economy is freest) because their labor productivity is higher. Imagine trying to stack pallets without a forklift, or assemble an automobile without assembly-line equipment. The mere brawn of the worker is no substitute for capital equipment.

And where does capital equipment come from? From the abstention from consumption on the part of the capitalist, who invests his profits in expanding his productive capacity. Workers would be able to produce maybe 1/1000th of what they do now, and be unable to produce whole classes of goods entirely, were it not for these investments by capitalists.

So here's your problem. You seem to think there needs to be an agency to employ violence to expropriate people in order to hand out their property to certain other people. The Supreme Authority will distribute that wealth according to the principle that the people who deserve it should have it, and the rich do not deserve it. Unfortunately, according to what I have just shown you, if you want to argue that way you'll have to say the WORKERS ought to be paying the CAPITALISTS, since without the capitalists' capital investment they would be working with their bare hands for a mere subsistence wage in the most primitive economy imaginable.

Of course I don't actually favor making the workers pay the capitalists, but you see my point: to argue that the rich wouldn't be where they are without some people's mere brawn is nonsense. Brawn contributes a tiny fraction to production. It's productivity-enhancing capital equipment, supplied by the capitalist, that does the rest. Maybe, instead of appointing a Supreme Council to assess everyone's moral worth and then expropriating everyone on that basis, we ought to interact with each other peacefully, which (contrary to your very strange assertion, which ignores most of U.S. history as well as that of Hong Kong, etc.) is the real engine of prosperity for everyone.
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Old 04-03-2013, 06:19 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Chile was not really run on pure or true Austrian economics. I've done that debate before. You guys couldn't spot it even with binoculars on.

I know that is your excuse. You just don't have evidence. From the article:
"Conservatives have developed an apologist literature defending Chile as a huge success story. In 1982, Milton Friedman enthusiastically praised General Pinochet (the Chilean dictator) because he "has supported a fully free-market economy as a matter of principle. Chile is an economic miracle." (1) However, the statistics below show this to be untrue. Chile is a tragic failure of right-wing economics, and its people are still paying the price for it today. "

/ where is your country?
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Old 04-03-2013, 06:24 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Specific kinds of voodoo economics that the political elites, such as Reich, believe still "play" to the public.

I agree with Bogart:
"The real problem with clowns like this is that all these practices were tried in the Soviet Union and failed miserably. "
As I was saying, his thought stems from the class warfare of Marx.



And this is your authority you're appealing to Loneiguana?
They should do have you conservatives in a paranoia over Marxism.
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Old 04-03-2013, 06:24 PM   #55
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Old 04-03-2013, 06:30 PM   #56
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Bill O'Reilly isn't a conservative. He also is economically clueless at times. It's his weak point.
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Old 04-03-2013, 06:34 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
They should do have you conservatives in a paranoia over Marxism.
It's not paranoia at all. It's knowing what happened and with what kind of policies.


"The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles." - Marx but Reich could have said it too.
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Old 04-03-2013, 06:36 PM   #58
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Let us ask a country that is doing great:
The German economic colossus

So austerity is their secret?
"Partly, but not entirely. Modern Germany is neither a socialist paradise nor a model of laissez-faire capitalism. Instead, the German economy is based on close partnerships between the public and private sectors — and between management and workers. A network of state-funded research institutes helps incubate innovation, and worker representatives have long sat on German corporate boards. Before the euro crisis hit, these partners hashed out a scheme called Kurzarbeit, or short-time work, under which the government agreed to supplement wages if companies reduced hours for skilled workers rather than laying them off entirely. Bertram Caspari, personnel director of a Mercedes truck factory south of Berlin, was told in 2008 to slash production by half. "We did not fire a single person," he said. "Not one." If Germany has a lesson for other nations, it's that far-sighted political and business leadership can work wonders, especially if they work together, says Steven Rattner, the financier and former Obama administration auto-industry czar. "The German model shows that a developed country can remain competitive even in a world where new economic giants, such as China, India, and others, are emerging," Rattner says."
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Old 04-03-2013, 06:42 PM   #59
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http://www.economist.com/blogs/graph...01/daily-chart

A QUARTER of a century ago, The World in 1988 light-heartedly ranked 50 countries according to where would be the best place to be born. Then, America came top (see chart on left). Now the Economist Intelligence Unit has more earnestly calculated where would be best to be born in 2013. Its quality-of-life index links the results of subjective life-satisfaction surveys—how happy people say they are—to objective determinants of the quality of life across countries. Being rich helps more than anything else, but it is not all that counts—things like crime and trust in public institutions matter too. In all, the index takes 11 indicators into account. Some are fixed, such as geography; others change only very slowly over time (demography, social and cultural characteristics). See full article




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH1S8wgjum0

/those darn socialist countries
//Fareed makes great counter points
//but why not look at how those countries create greater opportunities
////they are fulfilling the American Dream better than we are today
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Old 04-03-2013, 06:52 PM   #60
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Well, Germany has repatriated it's gold from the Bank of England and the NY Fed. They apparently think gold is an important and necessary first step for monetary reform. This view is not shared by mainstream economists. Austrian economists agree with this though. Germany has not resorted to mega trillion stimulus packages or bailouts. They've had continuity of leadership and predictable business climate which are lacking in the US right now. We had a radical change in leadership hell bent Keynesian principles with QE's and Marxist principles to fix the economy.

However, the govt/private model is the fascist model. So it has a partially free economy, but it'd be even more prosperous if it were freer. That's why Hong Kong tops the list for the freest economy—not German. The US does not have a free market economy anymore, but it was much freer in the past where we bypassed other nations. You have no idea what a free market is or does.

Also, it was an Austrian economist who did what Austrians say to do, after WWII that led to their economic recovery—not our aid called the Marshall Plan. They've had some experience with freer markets in the past improving their economy. Their Economic Miracle was a radical program of privatization and ending the regulatory controls and elaborate tax system imposed by Hitler and his National Socialists. Here is the story of Germany's recovery:
http://mises.org/daily/3635
http://mises.org/daily/1374

BTW, I don't have the time to read all your garbage charts and links. I am trying to get out of here.
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