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Old 03-05-2013, 09:10 PM  
Fat Elvis Fat Elvis is offline
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Does your perception of wealth distribution accurately reflect reality?

Just curious how close your (both conservatives and liberals) perception of wealth distribution reflects the reality of wealth distribution in the United States. Be honest. If our perceptions about reality are rightly or wrongly skewed one way or another, it helps to clarify why we (both liberals and conservatives) believe some of the things we do.

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Old 03-05-2013, 09:15 PM   #2
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Free-market capitalism is the answer. Corporatism mixed with socialism is creating this curve. Thank you globalism.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:41 PM   #3
KCWolfman KCWolfman is offline
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Our "poor" live better lives than the "middle class" of other nations.

And our "poor" have the benefit of working out of their class, unlike many other nations.

My mom collected food stamps and assisted living while raising 6 kids. She made sure she instilled in us a work ethic and a shame for being on the assistance so we would have a drive to get off of it as soon as possible.

The culture has changed because the mindset has changed. Now the government suggests having food stamp parties to explain the benefits to your neighbors. Now you can get prepared food which costs three to four times as much as grocery foods. Now you are rewarded for taking a handout.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:50 PM   #4
La literatura La literatura is offline
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Originally Posted by KCWolfman View Post
Our "poor" live better lives than the "middle class" of other nations.

And our "poor" have the benefit of working out of their class, unlike many other nations.

My mom collected food stamps and assisted living while raising 6 kids. She made sure she instilled in us a work ethic and a shame for being on the assistance so we would have a drive to get off of it as soon as possible.

The culture has changed because the mindset has changed. Now the government suggests having food stamp parties to explain the benefits to your neighbors. Now you can get prepared food which costs three to four times as much as grocery foods. Now you are rewarded for taking a handout.
So, your mom on welfare was because she wanted to take care of you. Other peoples' moms on welfare are because they're lazy, greedy bitches.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:03 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
So, your mom on welfare was because she wanted to take care of you. Other peoples' moms on welfare are because they're lazy, greedy bitches.
If that is what you took from the statement, I can see why the liberals are deluded into thinking that self sufficiency being the secret to being happy and successful is a negative thing.

If that is what you are deliberately obfuscating from my statement, then you are just wasting my time.

I never stated thus. I stated it used to be a temporary situation to accept government assistance. People were on unemployment for months, not years. People accepted welfare for a year or two, not generations. When more than 40% of this nation receives some sort of government assistance (more like 70% if you also account for corporate welfare) then there is just too damned much government assistance.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:04 PM   #6
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No, the actual distribution of wealth in the US isn't very far off from what I imagined. What the video doesn't really address is how those wealthy people accumulated that wealth and why the other sections of society didn't. Instead they try to relate wealth to hard work and imply that no one is going to be working X% harder than the people under them. The fact is that you really aren't going to get rich simply by working hard. It takes hard work, commitment, sacrifice and skill. Almost anyone can dig a ditch. Many people can work really hard at it. Does that mean that they should be as wealthy as a man who literally gave up his life to acquire wealth?
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:16 PM   #7
La literatura La literatura is offline
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Originally Posted by KCWolfman View Post
If that is what you took from the statement, I can see why the liberals are deluded into thinking that self sufficiency being the secret to being happy and successful is a negative thing.
I must be ignorant. I don't know why your mom's raw food welfare was help, but some other mom's welfare is a sign of a mindset change because their neighbor told them about it or the food isn't raw. I don't understand why our welfare should be designed to humiliate them out of it.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:18 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
I must be ignorant. I don't know why your mom's raw food welfare was help, but some other mom's welfare is a sign of a mindset change because their neighbor told them about it or the food isn't raw.
Okay
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:19 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
No, the actual distribution of wealth in the US isn't very far off from what I imagined. What the video doesn't really address is how those wealthy people accumulated that wealth and why the other sections of society didn't. Instead they try to relate wealth to hard work and imply that no one is going to be working X% harder than the people under them. The fact is that you really aren't going to get rich simply by working hard. It takes hard work, commitment, sacrifice and skill. Almost anyone can dig a ditch. Many people can work really hard at it. Does that mean that they should be as wealthy as a man who literally gave up his life to acquire wealth?
Nor how many "New" wealthy come into this nation every decade.

Good points.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:24 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by KCWolfman View Post
Okay
My post was purposely provocative. I just find it hard to believe that welfare recipients today feel like they are being rewarded when they use their EBT. I'm sure a lot of them have the same embarrassment your mom felt and wish a lot better for their children.

In other words, I'm not convinced your perception of people on welfare today accurately reflects reality.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:30 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
My post was purposely provocative. I just find it hard to believe that welfare recipients today feel like they are being rewarded when they use their EBT. I'm sure a lot of them have the same embarrassment your mom felt and wish a lot better for their children.
I am sure "a lot" of them do. I am also sure a lot more don't give a damn about embarrassment or we wouldn't have so many more people on it for so much longer today.

I offered a raise to an employee two times over two years. She turned it down each time because she said her benefits would be decreased and she wasn't sure how long she wanted to work but she did need to keep her housing. I fired her when I found out she went to her team leader and asked her to alter forms stating how much she earned so she could increase her level of benefits. She was fine with being fired because she said her benefits would increase and she would finally qualify for 100% HUD housing.

On the flipside, I have worked with Catholic Charities and helped people get into homes, feed their families, and try to get employed. Yes, there are good people wanting to live on their own. Unfortunately, I believe there are more people wanting something for nothing - as displayed by the liberals this last class warfare election.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:32 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
My post was purposely provocative. I just find it hard to believe that welfare recipients today feel like they are being rewarded when they use their EBT. I'm sure a lot of them have the same embarrassment your mom felt and wish a lot better for their children.

In other words, I'm not convinced your perception of people on welfare today accurately reflects reality.
I'd say that people on welfare are as varied in their motivations as the people who aren't.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:35 PM   #13
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It's always pretty easy to use one example to vilify an entire system and the liberals who support it, though. On the other hand, I can just point to some person who has benefited from it and became something for themselves to support it. Except that we tend to continue to believe that it's a net loss and more people are mooching losers who can't clean themselves up. I suppose this makes it easier to advocate for cutting their benefits while we reduce our own personal tax burden.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:37 PM   #14
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I'd say that people on welfare are as varied in their motivations as the people who aren't.
That sounds about right. Now let's try to fit an efficient, cost-effective, non-discriminatory safety net for that entire population.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:39 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
It's always pretty easy to use one example to vilify an entire system and the liberals who support it, though. On the other hand, I can just point to some person who has benefited from it and became something for themselves to support it. Except that we tend to continue to believe that it's a net loss and more people are mooching losers who can't clean themselves up. I suppose this makes it easier to advocate for cutting their benefits while we reduce our own personal tax burden.
I wouldn't call it a net loss. I personally know several of those "moochers" and I personally know several of those people that used welfare to better their lives. People are people.
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