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Old 03-03-2013, 07:55 PM  
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The Holocaust Just Got More Shocking

Thirteen years ago, researchers at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum began the grim task of documenting all the ghettos, slave labor sites, concentration camps and killing factories that the Nazis set up throughout Europe.

What they have found so far has shocked even scholars steeped in the history of the Holocaust.

The researchers have cataloged some 42,500 Nazi ghettos and camps throughout Europe, spanning German-controlled areas from France to Russia and Germany itself, during Hitlerís reign of brutality from 1933 to 1945.





http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/03/su...wanted=1&_r=4&
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:05 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Comrade Crapski View Post
You are a complete idiot. Just shut up and go away.
Who can argue with such a well constructed rebuttal as that?
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:17 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
They should have rose up against the Nazi's when they saw human ash on their lawns. And I don't buy they were helpless.

The SS would have fired on them but the regular army would not have if it was a popular uprising post Normandy. It could have been successful. The people knew the war was lost. Look at Russia 40 years later.

The russian communists controlled every part of their society. A narc on every block ready to turn in those who doubt. They won their freedom without firing a shot because the army wouldn't fire on them.
What dreamworld do you live in where people are this noble?

Most people won't even stand up for somebody who's been unjustifiably fired out of fear of losing their own jobs.
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:54 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by frazod View Post
What dreamworld do you live in where people are this noble?

Most people won't even stand up for somebody who's been unjustifiably fired out of fear of losing their own jobs.
I agree that there was no reasonable recourse for those that objected. But the problem is that there wasn't much objection. Anti-semitism was deeply rooted in German culture.
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Old 03-03-2013, 11:25 PM   #34
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Old 03-03-2013, 11:28 PM   #35
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Old 03-04-2013, 06:05 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by jspchief View Post
It may not have been a platform of genocide, but he very much came to power on a "blame the Jews" platform.

Hitler didn't just get lucky and stumble upon an army of sociopaths. The entire nation was on board, its not like they became anti semites at gunpoint. It may have eventually perverted beyond what they imagined, but he definitely had the support of a nation.

I'm not being a prick when I say pick up some history books. All this is well documented.
There was political opposition to Hitler rising to power, wasn't there? So, obviously not everyone was on board with his message.
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Old 03-04-2013, 06:11 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Comrade Crapski View Post
Exactly. Hitler wasn't elected president. He bullied his way to complete power.



you suggest?

It's obvious you haven't read any books about the Weimer Republic political system.
You right, The Nazi party never received, what more than thirty percent of the vote? You could say that the Nazi party never received the full backing of the German People. I don't think bully is the correct word though. Scheicher thought he could control Hitler and that's why he pressed Hindenburg, who was senile, to appoint him Chancellor. Of course, that proved to be very wrong since chancellors had been ruling by degree and ignoring the Reichstag since the 1930's. (Heinrich Bruning).

Now on the issues of the Jews, yes anti-jewish was a large part of the German political system. The entire Army and conservatives, for the most part, believe in the "Stab-in-the-back" Theory that states Jews and the new republic were the reasons Germany lost the World War. They(the army, conservatives) did not support he Republic. Hitler continued this idea and spoke very anti-jewish terms. Large portions of the German population supported the Rhetoric, like small rural land owners who saw the Jew as the hated middle man. But not enough to ever give them the majority through elections.

What did the population know and not know, I am not going to try and take a guess. But I am sure that living under Hitler with the SS and the Gestapo, along with denunciation to the Party being very common, means I don't think I can judge them.
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Old 03-04-2013, 06:13 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by blaise View Post
There was political opposition to Hitler rising to power, wasn't there? So, obviously not everyone was on board with his message.
Yes, the communists. And after the Reichstag Fire (33, I think), which was blamed on a Dutch communist, Hitler outlawed the parties. Once Hitler was in control, he was in control.
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Old 03-04-2013, 06:16 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Yes, the communists. And after the Reichstag Fire (33, I think), which was blamed on a Dutch communist, Hitler outlawed the parties. Once Hitler was in control, he was in control.
Outlawing parties and seizing control is different than saying the entire nation was on board with his views, which is what was alleged in the post I quoted.
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Old 03-04-2013, 06:25 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by blaise View Post
Outlawing parties and seizing control is different than saying the entire nation was on board with his views, which is what was alleged in the post I quoted.
No you alleged political opposition. Of which, after 33 and 34 there was none. Before, from the late twenties to 33, majority of Germans went extreme with parties (voting against the Republic) and either supported far right or far left parties. In Germany, you most likely supported one extreme or the other
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Old 03-04-2013, 06:30 AM   #41
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No you alleged political opposition. Of which, after 33 and 34 there was none. Before, from the late twenties to 33, majority of Germans went extreme with parties (voting against the Republic) and either supported far right or far left parties. In Germany, you most likely supported one extreme or the other
And you don't think the presence of political opposition demonstrated any opposition to Hitler's views?

Or are you, like the above poster, saying the entire nation agreed with Hitler?
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:15 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
The Germans were armed. They wanted Hitler in power. There was no desire to use their guns on him and his goons. They were happy until the last few years.

errr.....not 100% of the population. Not even close. Hitler was never even elected by a majority of the population before he took dictatorial powers.
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:18 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by jspchief View Post
It may not have been a platform of genocide, but he very much came to power on a "blame the Jews" platform.

Hitler didn't just get lucky and stumble upon an army of sociopaths. The entire nation was on board, its not like they became anti semites at gunpoint. It may have eventually perverted beyond what they imagined, but he definitely had the support of a nation.

I'm not being a prick when I say pick up some history books. All this is well documented.

The "entire nation was on board"?

Is the entire nation on board with everything Obama does just because we elected him? And he, at least, got a majority of the vote.

What was the percentage vote that the Nazi party got in the last freely held elections? That would be substantially LESS than 50%.

Yes, he ran on a racist platform. That is documented. But then you're somehow leaping to getting 100% of the vote on that platform, which is very far from true.
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:22 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
They should have rose up against the Nazi's when they saw human ash on their lawns. And I don't buy they were helpless.

The SS would have fired on them but the regular army would not have if it was a popular uprising post Normandy. It could have been successful. The people knew the war was lost. Look at Russia 40 years later.

The russian communists controlled every part of their society. A narc on every block ready to turn in those who doubt. They won their freedom without firing a shot because the army wouldn't fire on them.
By post-Normandy the Wehrmacht was conscripting men between, if memory serves, 14 and 46 years of age or thereabouts. You're basically talking about an uprising by the very young and very old, and women, who are scrabbling to get by while their lives are being constantly disrupted. Oh, and if you have an uprising, your sons who are in the military might get shot too, becuase, you know, SS.

And you want them to somehow organize this under wartime conditions pre-Internet?

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Old 03-04-2013, 07:23 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by frazod View Post
What dreamworld do you live in where people are this noble?

Most people won't even stand up for somebody who's been unjustifiably fired out of fear of losing their own jobs.

Yeah, this too.
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