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Old 02-15-2013, 12:03 AM  
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Pope Benedict Seeking Immunity?

Pope Benedict to seek immunity and protection from Italian President Giorgio Napolitano on February 23 Posted on February 14, 2013 by itccs

http://itccs.org/2013/02/14/pope-ben...n-february-23/

Pope Benedict, Joseph Ratzinger, has scheduled a meeting with Italian President Giorgio Napolitano for Saturday, February 23 to discuss securing protection and immunity from prosecution from the Italian government, according to Italian media sources.

Ratzinger's meeting follows upon the apparent receipt by the Vatican of a diplomatic note from an undisclosed European government on February 4, stating its intention to issue an arrest warrant for Ratzinger, who resigned from his pontificate less than a week later.

In response to the February 23 meeting, the International Tribunal into Crimes of Church and State (ITCCS), through its field Secretary, Rev. Kevin Annett, has written to President Napolitano, asking him to refrain from assisting Ratzinger in evading justice.
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Old 02-22-2013, 04:57 PM   #166
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I would think that seemingly "straight" men who are pedophiles vastly outnumber seemingly "gay" men who are pedophiles. There are a lot more straight men in this world than there are gay men.
Well, if it's true that one in every four priests are gay, that's 25%. If it's merely 2% of priests that molested boys then it does indicate that few gay priests are pedophiles. And as someone mentioned, those who abuse tend to have been abused too.
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:09 PM   #167
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Other than that, I think the reasoning is that if members of the clergy were given a healthy sexual outlet via the possibility of marriage than they would be more likely to use that outlet to relieve psychological pressure.
I believe this argument stems from you're not being Catholic regardless of if you were raised in it and are one no longer or not. It's that you don't understand Catholicism. Don't worry many Catholics don't either or reject parts for convenience. But sex is for procreation in the RCC. It is not a vehicle for a healthy sexual outlet. That's a modern idea from Freud and psychology. It's not Catholicism.

This idea of priests not marrying stems from tradition but also because the life of a priest who are missionaries can be hard on families. It's not set up for family life. I don't even believe all the apostles traveled with their wives or families or if some did it was more as sisters. Missionary work is tough on a family. Protestants did it but not Catholics. Then the parishioners would also have to support families as well.
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:17 PM   #168
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I believe this argument stems from you're not being Catholic regardless of if you were raised in it and are one no longer or not. It's that you don't understand Catholicism. Don't worry many Catholics don't either or reject parts for convenience. But sex is for procreation in the RCC. It is not a vehicle for a healthy sexual outlet. That's a modern idea from Freud and psychology. It's not Catholicism.

This idea of priests not marrying stems from tradition but also because the life of a priest who are missionaries can be hard on families. It's not set up for family life. I don't even believe all the apostles traveled with their wives or families or if some did it was more as sisters. Missionary work is tough on a family. Protestants did it but not Catholics. Then the parishioners would also have to support families as well.
Sure, I get that. I would imagine that spiritual or moral strength is expected to get you through temptations. It doesn't seem to be working though.
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:23 PM   #169
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Sure, I get that. I would imagine that spiritual or moral strength is expected to get you through temptations. It doesn't seem to be working though.
Well, I don't consider 2% pedophilia cases to be enough to claim it's not working. Celibacy has been around how long now? I'd have to know how many have had secret affairs to say that. No doubt there are some. There have been some scandals in history, but which were cleaned up. I'd have to know how many abide by rules to know if it's not working. I just don't think man on boy pedophilia has anything remotely to do with wanting to be with a woman. Afterall, in the RCC marriage is between a man and a woman.

Oh, btw, The Thornbirds is one of my favorite novels too.
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:29 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Well, I don't consider 2% pedophilia cases to be enough to claim it's not working. Celibacy has been around how long now? I'd have to know how many have had secret affairs to say that. No doubt there are some. There have been some scandals in history, but which were cleaned up. I'd have to know how many abide by rules to know if it's not working. I just don't think man on boy pedophilia has anything remotely to do with wanting to be with a woman. Afterall, in the RCC marriage is between a man and a woman.

Oh, btw, The Thornbirds is one of my favorite novels too.
Heh...

I think pedophilia is in a class of its own, separate from heterosexuality or homosexuality. I would consider 2% or even 1% to be not working. I would expect the cases of child molestation to be all but nonexistent in a very ordered environment, with such a history of intense organization. I don't know though. I'm not intimately familiar with the structure of the Catholic church by any means.
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:33 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
Heh...

I think pedophilia is in a class of its own, separate from heterosexuality or homosexuality. I would consider 2% or even 1% to be not working. I would expect the cases of child molestation to be all but nonexistent in a very ordered environment, with such a history of intense organization. I don't know though. I'm not intimately familiar with the structure of the Catholic church by any means.
I must disagree, since absolutes are not obtainable in this world and because pedophilia has no relationship to marriage. Pedophilia is found in families. Therefore having families is not working.

Seriously, listo, I don't know of much that has a 100% success rate. To be honest, I think your putting your own bias against the idea of celibacy into the matter to draw your conclusion.
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:40 PM   #172
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Edit: BTW, I don't have any problem with your harsh condemnations when they're directed toward specific priests that are guilty of molesting children. It's reprehensible. My problem with your posts in this thread is the way you generalize your accusations and apply them to "the church" or "catholics". And I don't agree with your understanding of the role of Bishops in these cases. Some bishops were more wrong than others depending on the facts in each case, but in a general sense, too many people act like all bishops who did anything short of hauling their own priests down to the local cop shop on the flimsiest of accusations are guilty of enabling molesters. That's simply nonsensical.
I get it pat you and Jensen are fighting the good fight. However some of us have some problems with the infallible Vicar of Christ along with the infallible church that provides him that distinction. Maybe we have a little problem with someone like Cardinal Bernard Law fleeing to Rome and being met with open arms. Maybe we were foolishly expecting too much from this church and their human substitute for Christ on earth thinking instead of rewarding this man with a home, a job and protection from prosecution that maybe they would instead request that he returned to Boston to face his accusers. Or maybe we were being too optimistic in thinking the Vicar of Christ would handle an individual like Richard Nelson Williamson differently. You see some of us do not render passes for Ratzinger because he holds a fictitious title. This only scratches the surface of the inappropriate actions by this man and his church. One thing I and many others have learned is a person can get away with unbelievable things by attaching Rev to your name or in this case Bishop, Cardinal or Pope~
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:41 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I must disagree, since absolutes are not obtainable in this world and because pedophilia has no relationship to marriage. Pedophilia is found in families. Therefore having families is not working.

Seriously, listo, I don't know of much that has a 100% success rate. To be honest, I think your putting your own bias against the idea of celibacy into the matter to draw your conclusion.
I expect more out of a church environment on this issue than I would out of an average family environment, or many other environments for that matter. Especially in a church that (as it appears to me) is as ordered and devoted to structure as the RCC. But, yeah. I have nothing but my own sexual experiences on which to base my judgements of the effects of celibacy, or my personal opinions of it.
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:42 PM   #174
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Also, listo, pedophilia is not new. Not only that it has not always been taboo either. Greeks and Romans practiced it, was considered normal and there were parents that did not object. Today, there's even organizations that are trying to make it acceptable again. However, to my knowledge, research on the causes is not very developed.
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:44 PM   #175
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I expect more out of a church environment on this issue than I would out of an average family environment, or many other environments for that matter. Especially in a church that (as it appears to me) is as ordered and devoted to structure as the RCC. But, yeah. I have nothing but my own sexual experiences on which to base my judgements of the effects of celibacy, or my personal opinions of it.
Yes, I think most would agree because religion is devoted to wrongdoing ( while also practicing forgiveness) but that does not prove whether or not celibacy is working or not in relation to pedophilia. As I said before, pedophiles go where there are children and can be placed in a position of trust.

BTW some feminists claim it's due to having been a male dominant society for so long.
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:47 PM   #176
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Also, listo, pedophilia is not new. Not only that it has not always been taboo either. Greeks and Romans practiced it, was considered normal and there were parents that did not object. Today, there's even organizations that are trying to make it acceptable again. However, to my knowledge, research on the causes is not very developed.
Oh yes, I am well aware that it has existed for quite some time and that there is at least one organization (NAMBLA) trying to normalize it.
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:47 PM   #177
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I get it pat you and Jensen are fighting the good fight. However some of us have some problems with the infallible Vicar of Christ along with the infallible church that provides him that distinction. ~
The church does not claim to be infallible and the Vicar of Christ, aka The Pope, is only considered infallible when he speaks ex cathedra ( on his throne ) on matters of faith and morals. This is to keep the doctrine from too many interpretations resulting in splinter groups. Most people, including RCs don't understand the infallibility doctrine though.
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:49 PM   #178
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The church does not claim to be infallible and the Vicar of Christ, aka The Pope, is only considered infallible when he speaks ex cathedra ( on his throne ) on matters of faith and morals. This is to keep the doctrine from too many interpretations resulting in splinter groups. Most people, including RCs don't understand the infallibility doctrine though.
Address the actions I mentioned or save me the white noise~
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:51 PM   #179
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Does "exactly" apply to the line I took out which was a part of that whole post you responded to?

How can denying marriage to a priest be the cause of pedophilia, when they committed it on boys?
I think this claim is illogical. They could have had affairs with women or grown men, if gay. It's happened before. Why children? Why not the opposite sex? Why do some married men who are fathers commit pedophilia including on their own children?

Pedophilia is a disorder, it has nothing to do with celibacy or marriage. Pedophiles go where there are children combined with being in a position of trust with children. The priesthood, as well as other jobs with children is where they can be found.

You're a logical guy Garcia but it doesn't wash. It's speculation.
if I meant pedophilia, i would've typed it. my response was to slag, who mentioned homosexuality.
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:51 PM   #180
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Oh yes, I am well aware that it has existed for quite some time and that there is at least one organization (NAMBLA) trying to normalize it.
Are NAMBLA members celibate? Married?


On a side note, here's an article on how wives of predators can be kept in the dark for years when they have a pedophile husband.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...-deceived.html
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