A little something for the nutjobs - all that ammo

[cosmo20002]

Homeland Security and its cache of bullets
By ALICIA A. CALDWELL | Associated Press – 10 hrs ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — Online rumors about a big government munitions purchase are true, sort of.

The Homeland Security Department wants to buy more than 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition in the next four or five years. It says it needs them — roughly the equivalent of five bullets for every person in the United States — for law enforcement agents in training and on duty.

Published federal notices about the ammo buy have agitated conspiracy theorists since the fall. That's when conservative radio host Alex Jones spoke of an "arms race against the American people" and said the government was "gearing up for total collapse, they're gearing up for huge wars."

The government's explanation is much less sinister.

Federal solicitations to buy the bullets are known as "strategic sourcing contracts," which help the government get a low price for a big purchase, says Peggy Dixon, spokeswoman for the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Glynco, Ga . The training center and others like it run by the Homeland Security Department use as many as 15 million rounds every year, mostly on shooting ranges and in training exercises.

Dixon said one of the contracts would allow Homeland Security to buy up to 750 million rounds of ammunition over the next five years for its training facilities. The rounds are used for basic and advanced law enforcement training for federal law enforcement agencies under the department's umbrella. The facilities also offer firearms training to tens of thousands of federal law enforcement officers. More than 90 federal agencies and 70,000 agents and officers used the department's training center last year.

The rest of the 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition would be purchased by Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the federal government's second largest criminal investigative agency.

ICE's ammunition requests in the last year included:

—450 million rounds of .40-caliber duty ammunition

—40 million rounds of rifle ammunition a year for as many as five years, for a total bullet-buy of 200 million rounds

—176,000 rifle rounds on a separate contract

—25,000 blank rounds

The Homeland Security ammo buy is not the first time the government's bullets purchases have sparked concerns on the Internet. The same thing happened last year when the Social Security Administration posted a notice that it was buying 174,000 hollow point bullets.

Jonathan L. Lasher, the agency's assistant inspector general for external relations, said those bullets were for the Social Security inspector general's office, which has about 295 agents who investigate Social Security fraud and other crimes.

Jones the talk-show host did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

http://news.yahoo.com/homeland-secur...190840538.html

[LiveSteam]

Originally Posted by Fish

Americans are infinitely better armed.

Not really. We stand lil to no chance if all the sheep were to blindly follow orders.
We are well armed to protect our selves from the common thug,nothing more.
All the AR-15s on earth aint going to beat a A1 Abrams,Bradly or air power.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by LiveSteam

Not really. We stand lil to no chance if all the sheep were to blindly follow orders.
We are well armed to protect our selves from the common thug,nothing more.
All the AR-15s on earth aint going to beat a A1 Abrams,Bradly or air power.

Again dummy, why would gun owners blindly follow orders? Have they done that so far? How are the proposed gun control measures being accepted by gun owners at the moment? And why would the military condone it even if the government wanted it? Think of 5 of your friends who currently serve. Which one of them would turn his gun against his fellow Americans just because the evil gubment said to?

We are completely unlike any country in the past that this has happened to. You can sit here and herp derp all day about how it happened 60 years ago. But that's not a representation of today's America.

And you're STILL ignoring the reasoning for why the government to want to do this. Tell me what the government gains by enslaving its populace? To do what?

[rockymtnchief]

Originally Posted by Fish

The reasoning for why the US government can't outright overtake its citizens, is the same reasoning that can be applied to why they can't take away our guns.

When the people depend on the government for a living, it's quite easy.

Social Security and welfare programs are not far from being the top bread winner in American households.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by rockymtnchief

When the people depend on the government for a living, it's quite easy.

Social Security and welfare programs are not far from being the top bread winner in American households.

You're still ignoring all the pesky details.....

[LiveSteam]

Originally Posted by Fish

Again dummy, why would gun owners blindly follow orders? Have they done that so far? How are the proposed gun control measures being accepted by gun owners at the moment? And why would the military condone it even if the government wanted it? Think of 5 of your friends who currently serve. Which one of them would turn his gun against his fellow Americans just because the evil gubment said to?

We are completely unlike any country in the past that this has happened to. You can sit here and herp derp all day about how it happened 60 years ago. But that's not a representation of today's America.

And you're STILL ignoring the reasoning for why the government to want to do this. Tell me what the government gains by enslaving its populace? To do what?

Sheep = TSA DHS Police ect. not civilians.

[frazod]

Originally Posted by Fish

The reasoning for why the US government can't outright overtake its citizens, is the same reasoning that can be applied to why they can't take away our guns.

And overtaking Europe by force was only achieved when multiple countries grouped together. And we're still talking about an area roughly the size of Texas alone. While still ignoring the fact that current Americans are infinitely better armed.

I wonder how many people over the millenia have said "it could never happen here"? It can happen anywhere, you and I have no control over it. Who knows what the future holds, what horrific events could come to pass that could change everything? If someone had told you a handful of terrorists could take out the World Trade Center with hijacked planes on September 10, would you have seriously considered it, or just dismissed them as a paranoid kook?

If an edict was issued tomorrow, or next week, or next month, for all citizens to turn in their firearms or be deemed criminals subject to arrest and prosecution, how many would comply? How many would refuse, knowing what that meant - that it's either stand your ground and fight the police/goon squad when they show up at your house or head for the hills and hope for the best? How many people would be prepared to do that? Would you? Would I? It's not a question that can be answered easily until it happens. Apparently the British meekly capitulated, although many apparently regret doing so. But it's too late for them to do anything about it now.

As for the area difference, technology has made things much easier. Satellites, drones, smart weapons - ask the Pakistanis how much fun it is fighting that crap. They don't seem real happy about it. I know morons like Cosmo think we're all jerking off at the thought of battling government oppression, but I'm sure as hell not. I'm a little too old and and fat to be an effective guerrila fighter, no matter how many guns or how much ammo I've got, nor does the idea of giving up every modern convenience, living like an animal and being in constant danger sound very appealing. It's not like my suburban condo is a defensible position - so I guess everything I can't pack in my car, or worst case scenario, carry on my back, is gone forever. Yeah, I want that to happen. ****.

[LiveSteam]

Originally Posted by Fish

Again dummy, why would gun owners blindly follow orders? Have they done that so far? How are the proposed gun control measures being accepted by gun owners at the moment? And why would the military condone it even if the government wanted it? Think of 5 of your friends who currently serve. Which one of them would turn his gun against his fellow Americans just because the evil gubment said to?

We are completely unlike any country in the past that this has happened to. You can sit here and herp derp all day about how it happened 60 years ago. But that's not a representation of today's America.

And you're STILL ignoring the reasoning for why the government to want to do this. Tell me what the government gains by enslaving its populace? To do what?

Well then/you just go ahead & buy the story they are target practising with a bagilion rounds.
Just dnt ask me to buy it.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by LiveSteam

Sheep = TSA DHS Police ect. not civilians.

Frisking airline patrons is a little different than door to door gun confiscation and outright attack on the citizens. You think that fat TSA agent is going to come to your house and take your guns? ...... Now you're just spinning...

[LiveSteam]

Originally Posted by Fish

Frisking airline patrons is a little different than door to door gun confiscation and outright attack on the citizens. You think that fat TSA agent is going to come to your house and take your guns? ...... Now you're just spinning...

Why the need for all the ammo then? Why the need for them to be training for urban warfare?

[Fish]

Originally Posted by frazod

I wonder how many people over the millenia have said "it could never happen here"? It can happen anywhere, you and I have no control over it. Who knows what the future holds, what horrific events could come to pass that could change everything? If someone had told you a handful of terrorists could take out the World Trade Center with hijacked planes on September 10, would you have seriously considered it, or just dismissed them as a paranoid kook?

If an edict was issued tomorrow, or next week, or next month, for all citizens to turn in their firearms or be deemed criminals subject to arrest and prosecution, how many would comply? How many would refuse, knowing what that meant - that it's either stand your ground and fight the police/goon squad when they show up at your house or head for the hills and hope for the best? How many people would be prepared to do that? Would you? Would I? It's not a question that can be answered easily until it happens. Apparently the British meekly capitulated, although many apparently regret doing so. But it's too late for them to do anything about it now.

As for the area difference, technology has made things much easier. Satellites, drones, smart weapons - ask the Pakistanis how much fun it is fighting that crap. They don't seem real happy about it. I know morons like Cosmo think we're all jerking off at the thought of battling government oppression, but I'm sure as hell not. I'm a little too old and and fat to be an effective guerrila fighter, no matter how many guns or how much ammo I've got, nor does the idea of giving up every modern convenience, living like an animal and being in constant danger sound very appealing. It's not like my suburban condo is a defensible position - so I guess everything I can't pack in my car, or worst case scenario, carry on my back, is gone forever. Yeah, I want that to happen. ****.

Again... who is the government going to convince to attack American citizens? I'll ask you the same as I asked Livesteam. How many military people you know would turn their gun on their fellow Americans? And what would the government do once they rounded everyone up? Put everyone in prisons? Kill them off? LOL....

Just answer this one simple question. How would it be better for the US government if it were to attack its citizens? What would be the advantage that would be better than the way things are now?

[go bowe]

Originally Posted by Fish

Again... who is the government going to convince to attack American citizens? I'll ask you the same as I asked Livesteam. How many military people you know would turn their gun on their fellow Americans? And what would the government do once they rounded everyone up? Put everyone in prisons? Kill them off? LOL....

Just answer this one simple question. How would it be better for the US government if it were to attack its citizens? What would be the advantage that would be better than the way things are now?

those damn simple questions are always the toughest to get an answer to...

pesky critters, like them fact thingies that get in the way...

[Fish]

Originally Posted by LiveSteam

Why the need for all the ammo then? Why the need for them to be training for urban warfare?

The same need that they've always had. You haven't really shown that their ammo purchase is different than any other ammo purchase in the past. How many bullets did the government purchase in 2000? If you can't answer that, then you have no basis of comparison, and are simply spouting off about what you believe to be a large number, and making up reasoning after the fact.

[LiveSteam]

Originally Posted by Fish

The same need that they've always had. You haven't really shown that their ammo purchase is different than any other ammo purchase in the past. How many bullets did the government purchase in 2000? If you can't answer that, then you have no basis of comparison, and are simply spouting off about what you believe to be a large number, and making up reasoning after the fact.

for 2000 the answer would be close to zero. 40acp has not been adopted by our military,& this type of round that was purchased is outlawed for military use by NATO. Durning the height of the Iraq war I think our consumption of ammo was under 75,000,000 annually.

[frazod]

Originally Posted by Fish

Again... who is the government going to convince to attack American citizens? I'll ask you the same as I asked Livesteam. How many military people you know would turn their gun on their fellow Americans? And what would the government do once they rounded everyone up? Put everyone in prisons? Kill them off? LOL....

Just answer this one simple question. How would it be better for the US government if it were to attack its citizens? What would be the advantage that would be better than the way things are now?

You act like the United States is one big unified group of people - that we operate and think as one. Seriously, could that be farther from the truth right now? Do you think your average congressman gets up in the morning thinking "Hey, I've got to remember my oath and go to bat for the little guy," or "Well, I wonder what my party leaders and biggest donors have on the agenda for the day"? The people who run this country, and more importantly, the people who run the people who run the country, don't give even a fraction of a shit about us. That much is obvious. As for who would do what, ask yourself - would Army units comprised of non-white urbanites really have a problem firing on "a bunch of rednecks"? Would U.N. peacekeepers? And I somehow doubt HS thugs are recruited based on their love of liberty.

[LiveSteam]

Originally Posted by frazod

You act like the United States is one big unified group of people - that we operate and think as one. Seriously, could that be farther from the truth right now? Do you think your average congressman gets up in the morning thinking "Hey, I've got to remember my oath and go to bat for the little guy," or "Well, I wonder what my party leaders and biggest donors have on the agenda for the day"? The people who run this country, and more importantly, the people who run the people who run the country, don't give even a fraction of a shit about us. That much is obvious. As for who would do what, ask yourself - would Army units comprised of non-white urbanites really have a problem firing on "a bunch of rednecks"? Would U.N. peacekeepers? And I somehow doubt HS thugs are recruited based on their love of liberty.

SHHHHHHHHHH! Its all about building a safer America for you & I