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Old 02-16-2013, 06:07 PM  
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USA Today leaks Obama's backup immigration plan if the Senate fails to pass a bill

White House immigration bill offers path to residency
Alan Gomez, USA TODAY7:37p.m. EST February 16, 2013
The legislation is being developed as members in both chambers of Congress are drafting their own immigration bills
Story Highlights
  • An administration official said the plan is being distributed to agencies
  • Proposal calls for more security funding and status checks
  • Illegal immigrants would apply for "Lawful Prospective Immigrant" visa
WASHINGTON A draft of a White House immigration proposal obtained by USA TODAY would allow illegal immigrants to become legal permanent residents within eight years.


The plan also would provide for more security funding and require business owners to check the immigration status of new hires within four years. In addition, the nation's 11 million illegal immigrants could apply for a newly created "Lawful Prospective Immigrant" visa, under the draft bill being written by the White House.


If approved, they could then apply for the same provisional legal status for their spouse or children living outside the country, according to the draft.

The draft was obtained from an Obama administration official who said it was being distributed to various agencies. The official requested anonymity because he was not authorized to release the proposal publicly.


The bill, which is still a working draft that could be significantly altered and may never be sent to Congress, is being developed as members in both chambers of Congress are drafting their own immigration bills. Last month, four Republican senators joined with four Democratic senators to announce their agreement on the general outlines of an immigration plan. In the House, a bipartisan group of representatives has been negotiating an immigration proposal for years and are writing their own bill.

In his first term, Obama often deferred to Congress on drafting and advancing major legislation, including the Affordable Care Act. He has openly supported the efforts in Congress to take the lead on immigration legislation, and just this week met with Democratic senators to discuss their proposals.
But two weeks ago in Las Vegas, while outlining his immigration plans, Obama made clear that he would not wait too long for Congress to get moving.

"If Congress is unable to move forward in a timely fashion, I will send up a bill based on my proposal and insist that they vote on it right away," he said.

White House spokesman Clark Stevens said Saturday that the administration continues to support the bipartisan efforts ongoing in Congress.


"The president has made clear the principles upon which he believes any common-sense immigration reform effort should be based," Stevens said. "We continue to work in support of a bipartisan effort, and while the president has made clear he will move forward if Congress fails to act, progress continues to be made and the administration has not prepared a final bill to submit."


According to the White House draft, people would need to pass a criminal background check, submit biometric information and pay fees to qualify for the new visa. If approved, they would be allowed to legally reside in the U.S. for four years, work and leave the country for short periods of time. After the four years, they could then reapply for an extension.


Illegal immigrants would be disqualified from the program if they were convicted of a crime that led to a prison term of at least one year, three or more different crimes that resulted in a total of 90 days in jail, or if they committed any offense abroad that "if committed in the United States would render the alien inadmissible or removable from the United States."


People currently in federal custody or facing deportation proceedings also could be allowed to apply for the Lawful Prospective Immigrant visa. Application forms and instructions would be provided in "the most common languages spoken by persons in the United States," but the application and all supporting evidence submitted to the federal government would have to be in English.


They would also be given a new identification card to show as proof of their legal status in the country.


The immigrants could then apply for legal permanent residence, commonly known as a green card, within eight years if they learn English and "the history and government of the United States" and pay back taxes. That would then clear the path for them to apply for U.S. citizenship.


To combat fraud, the draft proposes a new Social Security card be developed that is "fraud-resistant, tamper-resistant and wear-resistant." The Social Security Administration would be required to issue the new cards within two years.


A major requirement for many Republicans is enhanced border security. The bill calls for an unspecified increase in the Border Patrol, allows the Department of Homeland Security to expand technological improvements along the border and adds 140 new immigration judges to process the heavy flow of people who violate immigration laws.


It also orders U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) to study whether a land-border crossing fee should be implemented to help offset border security costs. The draft also proposes raising many inspection fees that border-crossers already pay.


The draft bill proposes a new plan to allow Homeland Security to "accept donations" from citizens, businesses and local and state governments to improve ports of entry and security features along the border. And it would require CBP to begin collecting statistics on deaths along the border and report them quarterly.


The draft also expands the E-Verify program that checks the immigration status of people seeking new jobs. Businesses with more than 1,000 employees must begin using the system within two years, businesses with more than 250 employees within three years and all businesses within four years.
Homeland Security, working with the U.S. departments of Labor and Agriculture, the attorney general and other agencies, would engage in a $40 million-a-year program to educate business owners and workers about the program.



Homeland Security also would be required to submit a report within 18 months showing how the worker verification system is working, and specifically explain how it is affecting the nation's agriculture industry, which relies heavily on illegal immigrant workers.


The draft obtained by USA TODAY does not include sections that would alter the nation's legal immigration system to adjust the future flow of legal immigrants, which is expected to be a critical component of any immigration overhaul.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...-bill/1925017/
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:11 PM   #2
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Byron York: With public focused on jobs, Washington fights other fights, Washington Examiner, February 7, 2013


A new survey on the effects of the economic downturn shows many more Americans than previously reported have been profoundly touched by joblessness and its related hardships.

In addition, the survey, by scholars at Rutgers University, shows more Americans than previously thought blame illegal immigration for the problem of unemployment — more than blame Wall Street bankers, or George W. Bush, or Barack Obama.

So what is Washington doing amid these deep economic anxieties? Working on a bipartisan plan that would begin with the mass, immediate legalization of illegal immigrants, before any border security or enforcement measures.

That those two facts exist simultaneously — deep fears about the economy and a political fixation on immigration reform — is just one illustration of a disconnect between national political leaders and the people who elected them.

In “Diminished Lives and Futures: A Portrait of America in the Great Recession Era,” the Rutgers researchers found the impact of unemployment reaches far beyond today’s jobless rate of 7.9 percent. A much larger number — 23 percent of those surveyed — have lost a full- or part-time job in the last four years. An additional 11 percent who have not lost a job said someone in their immediate family had. “Together, the data indicate one-third of American households — approximately 39 million — lost work as a result of the recession during the past four years,” the report concludes.


The researchers asked people — unemployed and employed alike — about the “major causes” of joblessness. Seventy percent named “competition and cheap labor from other countries.” The next-highest number, 40 percent, blamed “illegal immigrants taking jobs from Americans.” That 40 percent is more than blame Wall Street bankers (35 percent), the policies of George W. Bush (23 percent) or the policies of Barack Obama (30 percent).
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:15 PM   #3
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11 million AND any family members not living currently in the US can get the same status?. What's that drive the number up to 20 or 30 million?
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:19 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by stonedstooge View Post
11 million AND any family members not living currently in the US can get the same status?. What's that drive the number up to 20 or 30 million?
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:23 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stonedstooge View Post
11 million AND any family members not living currently in the US can get the same status?. What's that drive the number up to 20 or 30 million?
So ****ing what? If you are scared of some uneducated, non-english speaking immigrant of taking your job, you need to research a career change. Every proposal says......
  • They go to the back of the line.
  • They pay a fine, back taxes.
  • They pay taxes while they are in line waiting.
  • they have to register and maintain their residence in a database.
  • Learn English.
  • They get no benefits as a citizen until they actually are a citizen. Which as of right now could be 11 years.
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If it's effective, who are you, me, or anybody else to call it abuse? I worked with a guy back in Moberly who would shove a finger up his son's ass each time he had anything worse than a C on his report card. If he came home with 2 D's and an F, that's 3 fingers (and this was a big dude). Does that sound hideous and disgusting? Absolutely. Did the kid ever get anything worse than a C after this rule was implemented? Not a chance.

I'm not saying it's morally right or wrong, but does it make the child because of it? Think about that for a second.
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Old 02-16-2013, 06:47 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
So ****ing what? If you are scared of some uneducated, non-english speaking immigrant of taking your job, you need to research a career change. Every proposal says......
  • They go to the back of the line.
  • They pay a fine, back taxes.
  • They pay taxes while they are in line waiting.
  • they have to register and maintain their residence in a database.
  • Learn English.
  • They get no benefits as a citizen until they actually are a citizen. Which as of right now could be 11 years.
And you can keep you insurance, your doctor, and health care will be cheaper. Right.
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Old 02-16-2013, 07:10 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
So ****ing what? If you are scared of some uneducated, non-english speaking immigrant of taking your job, you need to research a career change. Every proposal says......
  • They go to the back of the line.
  • They pay a fine, back taxes.
  • They pay taxes while they are in line waiting.
  • they have to register and maintain their residence in a database.
  • Learn English.
  • They get no benefits as a citizen until they actually are a citizen. Which as of right now could be 11 years.
Wow.
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Old 02-16-2013, 07:14 PM   #8
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I support a VERY open immigration policy so these things don't go far enough for my tastes. I firmly believe in the "natural order" of things. I think there are natural systems that when we go against them we cause more problems then we solve. Which is why I believe in things like the free market over central planning and evolution over intelligent design... fewer drug laws and not increasing gun laws. In the case of immigration, no one needs to worry about some mad rush of immigrants right now... our economy sucks and frankly,(for many) it isn't worth the hassle to come here right now.

Make it easy for LEGAL trackable immigration and locking down the border against truly BAD illegals will no longer be a political hot potato and you can start to build walls or use drones or minefields or whatever you feel necessary. (I am all for a shoot on site policy when it becomes a situation where only a truly "bad" person would need to sneak in to the US...)

Immigration is a natural and healthy aspect of our economy and placing too many arbitrary limits and hurdles on it causes far more harm than good (economically speaking). Just one more thing the government screws up when it tries to control it too much.
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Old 02-16-2013, 07:24 PM   #9
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I think the Senate bill will pass, fortunately.
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Old 02-16-2013, 08:20 PM   #10
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I think the Senate bill will pass, fortunately.
No response to my "trap" post?

It plays into something I see as a fundamental flaw in the philosophies of both major parties and I'll probably post a thread on it at some point. Both parties are only content to "let things naturally resolve themselves" when it doesn't affect certain beliefs... and THEN oh boy, watch out.. it's time for government to (over)step in and give us "solutions."
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Old 02-16-2013, 08:56 PM   #11
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Rubio has already come out loudly daming the plan. No surprise. But, that was damn quick for a leaked plan.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bufkin View Post
If it's effective, who are you, me, or anybody else to call it abuse? I worked with a guy back in Moberly who would shove a finger up his son's ass each time he had anything worse than a C on his report card. If he came home with 2 D's and an F, that's 3 fingers (and this was a big dude). Does that sound hideous and disgusting? Absolutely. Did the kid ever get anything worse than a C after this rule was implemented? Not a chance.

I'm not saying it's morally right or wrong, but does it make the child because of it? Think about that for a second.
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Old 02-16-2013, 09:09 PM   #12
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Rubio has already come out loudly daming the plan. No surprise. But, that was damn quick for a leaked plan.
Did he give the reasons why or should we just assume you've gone over it and have decided for us he's wrong.
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Old 02-16-2013, 09:10 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
So ****ing what? If you are scared of some uneducated, non-english speaking immigrant of taking your job, you need to research a career change. Every proposal says......
  • They go to the back of the line.
  • They pay a fine, back taxes.
  • They pay taxes while they are in line waiting.
  • they have to register and maintain their residence in a database.
  • Learn English.
  • They get no benefits as a citizen until they actually are a citizen. Which as of right now could be 11 years.

That list tells me that most illegals will not waste their time trying to become legal.
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Old 02-16-2013, 09:43 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
I support a VERY open immigration policy so these things don't go far enough for my tastes. I firmly believe in the "natural order" of things. I think there are natural systems that when we go against them we cause more problems then we solve. Which is why I believe in things like the free market over central planning and evolution over intelligent design... fewer drug laws and not increasing gun laws. In the case of immigration, no one needs to worry about some mad rush of immigrants right now... our economy sucks and frankly,(for many) it isn't worth the hassle to come here right now.

Make it easy for LEGAL trackable immigration and locking down the border against truly BAD illegals will no longer be a political hot potato and you can start to build walls or use drones or minefields or whatever you feel necessary. (I am all for a shoot on site policy when it becomes a situation where only a truly "bad" person would need to sneak in to the US...)

Immigration is a natural and healthy aspect of our economy and placing too many arbitrary limits and hurdles on it causes far more harm than good (economically speaking). Just one more thing the government screws up when it tries to control it too much.
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:07 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
I support a VERY open immigration policy so these things don't go far enough for my tastes. I firmly believe in the "natural order" of things. I think there are natural systems that when we go against them we cause more problems then we solve. Which is why I believe in things like the free market over central planning and evolution over intelligent design... fewer drug laws and not increasing gun laws. In the case of immigration, no one needs to worry about some mad rush of immigrants right now... our economy sucks and frankly,(for many) it isn't worth the hassle to come here right now.

Make it easy for LEGAL trackable immigration and locking down the border against truly BAD illegals will no longer be a political hot potato and you can start to build walls or use drones or minefields or whatever you feel necessary. (I am all for a shoot on site policy when it becomes a situation where only a truly "bad" person would need to sneak in to the US...)

Immigration is a natural and healthy aspect of our economy and placing too many arbitrary limits and hurdles on it causes far more harm than good (economically speaking). Just one more thing the government screws up when it tries to control it too much.

We don't live in a free market. We live in a world where politicians control the market. If there are incentives to come - such as affirmative action policies, cradle-to-grave healthcare and retirement, and superior schools on the cheap for them - they will come.

You can't have open borders with a welfare system. You must choose one or the other.
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