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Old 02-07-2013, 11:08 AM  
pr_capone pr_capone is offline
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Gun owners - follow up to the poll on safes being required

The banning of "assault" weapons is right out. The banning of large capacity magazines is out. Registration of guns is out. Judging by the response in the poll... mandatory securing of a weapon when not in use is out.

I firmly believe that curbing gun violence in the US begins with education and the enforcement of existing laws. That said... is there any compromise to be had on the gun owner side of the argument?

If you are a gun owner... what would you be willing to compromise to find middle ground on this debate?
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:45 PM   #76
trndobrd trndobrd is offline
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Originally Posted by pr_capone View Post
If you are a gun owner... what would you be willing to compromise to find middle ground on this debate?
I think a good point of compromise would be to put more effort into enforcing existing laws, instead of the 32% drop in gun prosecutions that we've had under the Obama administration.

I could also get on board with a policy to stop sending guns to Mexican drug cartels.
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:04 PM   #77
CrazyPhuD CrazyPhuD is offline
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Originally Posted by pr_capone View Post
I firmly believe that curbing gun violence in the US begins with education and the enforcement of existing laws. That said... is there any compromise to be had on the gun owner side of the argument?
Actually and somewhat ironically...no enforcement of existing laws is actually one of the major causes of gun violence. I know people will think that sounds crazy but it's actually fairly simple if you think of it.

Much if not most gun violence revolves around the gang and drug culture. In today's society, you have to ask yourself why do they even carry guns? One of the major issues if you are doing something that is against the law is that it's not like you can go to the police and report a crime if you get robbed of either said drugs or money. There is no one there to protect you from those trying to rob you or muscle you out of your territory to sell.

So what happens, if someone threatens to beat you up, you get a bat to protect yourself, then they get a knife, and then you get a gun and they get a gun and you have a relative balance of force, which unfortunately results in people often getting shot over disputes on territory or robbery.

Now the answer some would give is that if we banned all guns we could prevent them from escalating the level of violence. The problem with that is that it is effectively impossible to prevent criminals from getting their hands on guns. We can't stop the free flow of illegal drugs anywhere in this country and we have dogs that can detect the smell of drugs. Do you really think we will do a better job of detecting the flow of illegal firearms when they just look like chunks of metal? Likely no material reduction in crime guns, only a reduction in legal guns.

So if gangs are often motivated by drug related crimes and part of the reason they shoot each other up is that there is no one available to protect them. How about we extend police protect to crimes against drug dealers, etc? Police would be able to follow up on those attempting to muscle territory or those attempting to steal from drug dealers etc. There would be a substantially LESS need for those in the drug trade to carry firearms to protect themselves.

But this would require that we decriminalize drug use and sales. Which honestly is likely the appropriate response since the problem with drugs isn't actually drugs. It's addiction, we should be spending trillions of dollars fighting addiction than we should spending those same trillions enforcing prohibition that doesn't work.

History, science, et al has shown that prohibition is ineffective, yet we still waste money believing that our solution to our social problems is to prohibit people from having things because of what a few might do...
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:07 PM   #78
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Or in a more valid football related response. How many people are thinking about banning football at ALL levels because there are some after years of hits suffering from concussion related damage?

Should we ban football at all levels because there are a few that end up being harmed by the sport?

Life is a risk, if you don't want to live it fine, but don't tell me I'm not allowed to take a risk if I choose to.
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:20 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by CrazyPhuD View Post
Or in a more valid football related response. How many people are thinking about banning football at ALL levels because there are some after years of hits suffering from concussion related damage?

Should we ban football at all levels because there are a few that end up being harmed by the sport?

Life is a risk, if you don't want to live it fine, but don't tell me I'm not allowed to take a risk if I choose to.
I think we most definitely ban Super Bowl Parades so no one gets stabbed.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:58 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by pr_capone View Post
The banning of "assault" weapons is right out. The banning of large capacity magazines is out. Registration of guns is out. Judging by the response in the poll... mandatory securing of a weapon when not in use is out.

I firmly believe that curbing gun violence in the US begins with education and the enforcement of existing laws. That said... is there any compromise to be had on the gun owner side of the argument?

If you are a gun owner... what would you be willing to compromise to find middle ground on this debate?
Not a thing. I'm a law abiding citizen. Would you give up your kitchen knives? Will you promise to lock your knives in a safe? Why not? There are thousands killed each year by knives! You MUST do something!
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Old 02-08-2013, 06:21 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by pr_capone View Post
Will they drive over to your home and stand over your shoulder and talk to you while you handle the firearm as well? You can't ask literature questions.
No. For one on one we will need to hire gun owner followers to provide this level of training. That is a superb idea. Federal gun safety monitors. Cool.
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Old 02-08-2013, 06:53 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by jjjayb View Post
Not a thing. I'm a law abiding citizen. Would you give up your kitchen knives? Will you promise to lock your knives in a safe? Why not? There are thousands killed each year by knives! You MUST do something!
Hey guess what, genius. There are knife laws in 50 states. With many bans in place.
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:30 AM   #83
Buehler445 Buehler445 is offline
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What exactly would gun control advocates be compromising? They don't stand to lose anything. How can there be compromise or middle ground when one side isn't actually giving up anything?
This is what I haven't seen yet. The "OH NOEZ" crowd is not giving anything. If there is going to be give and take, there has to be some take to be had.

a portion of the country has determined that guns are the enemy and have waged war against them, not engaged them in civilized negotiation.
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Old 02-08-2013, 01:38 PM   #84
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Hey guess what, genius. There are knife laws in 50 states. With many bans in place.
And I want you to give up steak knives. They can be used to assault people. They are now assault knives. I don't want you to be able to keep them in your house, let alone take them in public. Do you have an issue with that genius?
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Old 02-08-2013, 01:40 PM   #85
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Just tell your child not to touch. Problem solved.

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As my child is going to come from my seed, it's probably going to be very stupid.

I'm not concerned with a 10 yr old shooting himself; that can be taught. But a 4-5 yr old is a different story. Yeah, gonna keep 'em locked up with small children around and to do otherwise is wildly irresponsible, IMO.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:54 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by jjjayb View Post
And I want you to give up steak knives. They can be used to assault people. They are now assault knives. I don't want you to be able to keep them in your house, let alone take them in public. Do you have an issue with that genius?
Nobody cares what you want. You have simply taken the argument off the deep end and have gone completley nonsensical. Steak knives, please. This is almost like having a discussion with my 16yr old. Better yet, my 6yr old. Who when he gets in trouble and gets a toy taken away for poor behavior he usually responds with the childish response of that he doesn't deserve anything. So go ahead and pout like a 6yr old about steak knives because you can't have a toy.

You know there was a time in this country when they had to decide banning fully automatic weapons from public hands. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that those guns laws were a direct response to violence caused by that type of weapon system. You're witnessing the same today with weapons that have been designed for military purposes.
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:41 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by RubberSponge View Post
Nobody cares what you want. You have simply taken the argument off the deep end and have gone completley nonsensical. Steak knives, please. This is almost like having a discussion with my 16yr old. Better yet, my 6yr old. Who when he gets in trouble and gets a toy taken away for poor behavior he usually responds with the childish response of that he doesn't deserve anything. So go ahead and pout like a 6yr old about steak knives because you can't have a toy.

You know there was a time in this country when they had to decide banning fully automatic weapons from public hands. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that those guns laws were a direct response to violence caused by that type of weapon system. You're witnessing the same today with weapons that have been designed for military purposes.
Eat shit plain and simple. Your condescending attitude is laughable. You do not have a clue what you are talking about~
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:50 AM   #88
jjjayb jjjayb is offline
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Originally Posted by RubberSponge View Post
Nobody cares what you want. You have simply taken the argument off the deep end and have gone completley nonsensical. Steak knives, please. This is almost like having a discussion with my 16yr old. Better yet, my 6yr old. Who when he gets in trouble and gets a toy taken away for poor behavior he usually responds with the childish response of that he doesn't deserve anything. So go ahead and pout like a 6yr old about steak knives because you can't have a toy.

You know there was a time in this country when they had to decide banning fully automatic weapons from public hands. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that those guns laws were a direct response to violence caused by that type of weapon system. You're witnessing the same today with weapons that have been designed for military purposes.
Talking with gun control advocates is like talking to a child. Again, MORE PEOPLE ARE KILLED WITH KNIVES THAN WITH ASSAULT WEAPONS. How is that so hard to understand? Your answer is "well, knives are already banned in 50 states." Although I'm not aware of knive bans, I'll play along. Here's a question for you genius.... Did it work?!? Obviously not. Why do you think it would work for guns?
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:25 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by RubberSponge View Post
You know there was a time in this country when they had to decide banning fully automatic weapons from public hands. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that those guns laws were a direct response to violence caused by that type of weapon system. You're witnessing the same today with weapons that have been designed for military purposes.
No, the violence caused by those weapons during that era was a result of the prohibition laws. Ironically enough had prohibition disappeared first then the guns wouldn't have been blamed. You gun grabbers are all the same, you have no facts to support your side, you operate off emotion. You act as if these weapons are all over the place and randomly attacking people on their own.
Wake up, go find something else to attack. Or maybe, just maybe, realize that living comes with risks. Try adapting yourself to your environment instead of attempting to adapt the environment to you. I will not trade my freedoms for your false sense of security. If you don't like this country and it's constitution, get the **** out.
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:39 AM   #90
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Try adapting yourself to your environment instead of attempting to adapt the environment to you.
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Throughout all of human history, people have always adapted the environment to themselves. If people didn't do that we wouldn't have a Constitution at all.
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