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Old 02-06-2013, 01:49 PM  
Lzen Lzen is offline
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Hmmm, limit size of magazine or clip?

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Old 02-06-2013, 02:00 PM   #2
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fortunately, most mass killers have not spent a major part of their lives on a gun range and/or are not world champions like those folks...

the chick with the shotgun loaded fast but it still took her a few seconds which could be enough for someone to tackle her before she could resume firing...

or be able to stand up and fire accurately at the killer....
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:05 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
fortunately, most mass killers have not spent a major part of their lives on a gun range and/or are not world champions like those folks...

the chick with the shotgun loaded fast but it still took her a few seconds which could be enough for someone to tackle her before she could resume firing...

or be able to stand up and fire accurately at the killer....
with a shot gun you only have to be close.....yes?
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:28 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by King_Chief_Fan View Post
with a shot gun you only have to be close.....yes?
true, but the question for me was speed loading and whether a bigger magazine allows for faster shooting for longer periods...

it didn't look like any of the demonstrations involved magazines greater than 8 rounds (the first pistol held eight)...

if the point is that a very small number of people in the world can load and fire faster than a semi-automatic then i completely agree...

if the point is that larger capacity magazines don't matter because these few experts who've spent their lives learning to load and fire can outperform a semi-automatic, then i disagree...
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:36 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
true, but the question for me was speed loading and whether a bigger magazine allows for faster shooting for longer periods...

it didn't look like any of the demonstrations involved magazines greater than 8 rounds (the first pistol held eight)...

if the point is that a very small number of people in the world can load and fire faster than a semi-automatic then i completely agree...

if the point is that larger capacity magazines don't matter because these few experts who've spent their lives learning to load and fire can outperform a semi-automatic, then i disagree...
I think the point is that limiting magazine size probably wouldn't make that much of a difference. With enough practice, someone could get pretty fast at loading. Not necessarily world champion fast, but fast enough to take out many people.
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:45 PM   #6
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It's a stupid argument anyway because law abiding citizens (99% of gun owners) don't use large capacity magazines for mayhem. Limit them, and the only people affected are the good guys.
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:51 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Lzen View Post
I think the point is that limiting magazine size probably wouldn't make that much of a difference. With enough practice, someone could get pretty fast at loading. Not necessarily world champion fast, but fast enough to take out many people.
someone could get pretty fast, but wasn't gabby's shooter stopped when his magazine jammed and he had to reload? i think some of those he hadn't shot yet jumped on him when he tried to reload, iirc...

they couldn't have done that if his 30 round magazine had functioned properly (or was it the gunn jamming, idk)...

i think limiting magazine size would make a difference and personally i see no compelling reason to not limit them...

enthusiasts can be licensed or use their high capacity magazines at licensed gun ranges where they are stored securely...

most hunters don't really need more than 7 or 8 rounds to kill a deer or an elk, or so i'm told...

i guess i'm saying don't ban high capacity magazines but put reasonable limits on their use so that they are so easily available to people who want to put them to their intended use, which is to kill lots of people fast...

same with military grade assault weapons...

licensing and reasonable limitations on use can be employed to reduce the impact on gun enthusiasts or collectors...

for example, assault weapons are not generally needed in the urban environment and possession in public of such without a permit or license and not at an approved gun range or the like should be illegal...

in rural areas, not so much of a problem, but newly purchased assault weapons and possibly other guns could still be registered or subject to some sort of permit process without taking anybody's guns away or outright banning them...
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:56 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by InChiefsHell View Post
It's a stupid argument anyway because law abiding citizens (99% of gun owners) don't use large capacity magazines for mayhem. Limit them, and the only people affected are the good guys.
i see that argument a lot, but is it really accurate?

if large capacity magazines are legal under some sort of licensing or permit process, the good guys will still be able to have and use them but the bad guys would no longer be able to buy them at any gun store or online...

and possessing them outside of the home without the necessary license/permit would be illegal, directly affecting criminals and the gangsters who carry them around shooting at people...

so the people who would be significantly affected are the bad guys, not the good guys...
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
true, but the question for me was speed loading and whether a bigger magazine allows for faster shooting for longer periods...

it didn't look like any of the demonstrations involved magazines greater than 8 rounds (the first pistol held eight)...

if the point is that a very small number of people in the world can load and fire faster than a semi-automatic then i completely agree...

if the point is that larger capacity magazines don't matter because these few experts who've spent their lives learning to load and fire can outperform a semi-automatic, then i disagree...

Im confused. All my pistols that have a magazine are semi automatic. I dont know of a magazine fed pistol that is not a semi automatic.

Revolvers can be reloaded with a speed loader, a device that holds 5 or six rounds in position to rapidly allow the shooter to reload. Would those fall under your planned ban as well?

Most shotguns will hold 6 or 7 rounds with one chambered and the balance in the magazine. The magazine is not removable. What are your thoughts on the current supply of shotguns?
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:20 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
someone could get pretty fast, but wasn't gabby's shooter stopped when his magazine jammed and he had to reload? i think some of those he hadn't shot yet jumped on him when he tried to reload, iirc...

they couldn't have done that if his 30 round magazine had functioned properly (or was it the gunn jamming, idk)...

i think limiting magazine size would make a difference and personally i see no compelling reason to not limit them...

enthusiasts can be licensed or use their high capacity magazines at licensed gun ranges where they are stored securely...

most hunters don't really need more than 7 or 8 rounds to kill a deer or an elk, or so i'm told...

i guess i'm saying don't ban high capacity magazines but put reasonable limits on their use so that they are so easily available to people who want to put them to their intended use, which is to kill lots of people fast...

same with military grade assault weapons...

licensing and reasonable limitations on use can be employed to reduce the impact on gun enthusiasts or collectors...

for example, assault weapons are not generally needed in the urban environment and possession in public of such without a permit or license and not at an approved gun range or the like should be illegal...

in rural areas, not so much of a problem, but newly purchased assault weapons and possibly other guns could still be registered or subject to some sort of permit process without taking anybody's guns away or outright banning them...
The most common pistol malfunction is a "stovepipe" and is not usually related to magazine size. Just a point of information as you design the ban. Stovepipes can occur usually as a result of poor firearm care and cleaning or using subpar ammunition.

Re "enthusiasts" and requirement of this permit/license for a magazine. Would a rural resident such as I be allowed to own, keep, and use my semiautomatic rifle with a 30 round magazine without the new license? If said rifle is stocked with a wood stock and is not black and spooky looking will it fall in the same requirements? Will this apply to all currently owned civilian firearms or just new purchases? Can I keep my magazines at home or do I need to drive to the magazine bank and check them out when I want to use them?

What is a "military grade assault weapon"? I would assume, and I know that is not a good idea, that a weapon so described is capable of fully automatic operation. Those are currently very highly regulated. Civilian "assault weapons" as usually referred to are no more than a gun that looks like a military weapon but has no functions that exceed a common semi auto Ruger Mini 14. Would we regulate a Mini 14 different than a Larue OBR 5.56?

Will we see regulations that are different for the city dweller than say a small town resident or someone with a rural address?

Just asking.....
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:22 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
someone could get pretty fast, but wasn't gabby's shooter stopped when his magazine jammed and he had to reload? i think some of those he hadn't shot yet jumped on him when he tried to reload, iirc...

they couldn't have done that if his 30 round magazine had functioned properly (or was it the gunn jamming, idk)...

i think limiting magazine size would make a difference and personally i see no compelling reason to not limit them...
Those 100rd cylinder magazines are garbage and jam all the time. It was one of those that jammed up on the shooter in Aurora.

I disagree where limiting magazine size would make a difference. I am not a competition shooter by any stretch of the imagination and I can tell you that *I* can drop a magazine and reload in a second or two.

Quote:
same with military grade assault weapons...
I am purposely not quoting the rest of this post because the statement quoted above is one of, if not the biggest, problem in having this conversation. The rifles that would be banned are in no way shape or form "military grade assault weapons".

Military grade assault weapons feature select fire (fully auto - burst) while the rifles targeted by this ban are not. They are only semi-auto rifles that fire a single round with a single pull of the trigger. Military grade assault weapons have been banned for quite some time already.

As an example... the Ruger Mini-14 ranch rifle is not on the banned rifles list. My Ruger Mini-14 Ranch Tactical, which has the exact same action as the base Ranch model, would be banned. It would be banned strictly and only because it has a pistol grip and a collapsible stock.

Why is mine a "military grade" weapon when it has the exact same function as the base model which will go unaffected by this law?
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:25 PM   #12
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Those 100rd cylinder magazines are garbage and jam all the time. It was one of those that jammed up on the shooter in Aurora.

I disagree where limiting magazine size would make a difference. I am not a competition shooter by any stretch of the imagination and I can tell you that *I* can drop a magazine and reload in a second or two.



I am purposely not quoting the rest of this post because the statement quoted above is one of, if not the biggest, problem in having this conversation. The rifles that would be banned are in no way shape or form "military grade assault weapons".

Military grade assault weapons feature select fire (fully auto - burst) while the rifles targeted by this ban are not. They are only semi-auto rifles that fire a single round with a single pull of the trigger. Military grade assault weapons have been banned for quite some time already.

As an example... the Ruger Mini-14 ranch rifle is not on the banned rifles list. My Ruger Mini-14 Ranch Tactical, which has the exact same action as the base Ranch model, would be banned. It would be banned strictly and only because it has a pistol grip and a collapsible stock.

Why is mine a "military grade" weapon when it has the exact same function as the base model which will go unaffected by this law?
My Mini 14 point is faster that your mini 14 point. And I bet it shoots better too! But you win on looks. Mine has years of truck beater marks and a crappy wood stock. Its a draw.
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:26 PM   #13
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I don't shoot regularly. I can change a magazine in under 2 seconds. People who know nothing about a subject should listen more and talk less.
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:32 PM   #14
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I don't shoot regularly. I can change a magazine in under 2 seconds. People who know nothing about a subject should listen more and talk less.
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:43 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
fortunately, most mass killers have not spent a major part of their lives on a gun range and/or are not world champions like those folks...

the chick with the shotgun loaded fast but it still took her a few seconds which could be enough for someone to tackle her before she could resume firing...

or be able to stand up and fire accurately at the killer....
K, you rush someone with a gun. If I have a shotgun and you rush me while I am loading and I cannot get position to fire you are going to end up with the butt of the shotgun upside your head.

Rushing someone with a firearm is very risky and I would say should be the absolute last thing anyone should ever try, contrary to what Hollywood may show us on the TV and all.
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