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Old 01-29-2013, 11:19 AM  
Deberg_1990 Deberg_1990 is offline
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Boy Scouts may lift ban on gays

Are you cool with it?




History’s being made this month. Last week, President Barack Obama became the first president to use the term “gay” in reference to sexual orientation in an inauguration speech. And on Monday the Boy Scouts of America — which successfully fought against allowing gays into its ranks all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court in 2000 — said it may reverse its policy next week.

Just last summer BSA had reaffirmed its stand to keep gays out. But it wasn’t a popular move. Membership in BSA is on the decline — and financial support is falling as well. The Merck Company Foundation, Intel Foundation, UPS and United Way have stopped or postponed donations due to the anti-gay policy of the 102-year-old organization.

Two members of the Boy Scouts of America national executive board: Ernst & Young CEO James Turley and AT&T CEO Randall Stephenson have supported dumping the ban on gays in favor of inclusion regardless of sexuality.

Then there are the negative headlines: A lesbian mom was kicked out of her position as a den leader in Ohio. The Eagle Scout application of a California teen who came out was rejected. And last summer, a 19-year-old Eagle Scout in Missouri was fired from his job at a Scout summer camp after he announced he was gay.

Deron Smith, a spokesman for Boy Scouts of America, told me the decision to revisit the policy during a private meeting of the national executive board next week resulted from “a longstanding dialogue within the Scouting family.” As he explained, “Last year, Scouting realized the policy caused some volunteers and chartered organizations which oversee and deliver the program to act in conflict with their missions, principles or religious beliefs.”

Smith stressed that the board may consider lifting the national ban, but that it will remain up to the individual chartering organization whether to allow gays as members and leaders. Troops are sponsored by churches, civic groups and schools. BSA would not force any local chartering institution to accept gays.

That makes the national ruling something of a compromise. BSA’s basically giving local groups permission to make their own decision. Some troops have quietly accepted gays; Minnesota’s largest group of Boy Scouts, the Twin Cities-based Northern Star Council, has had an inclusive policy for 12 years.

Keeping it local makes sense to many parents and adult leaders. “I think it’s a good idea to leave it up to the local troop,” said Ken Mason, assistant scoutmaster of my son’s troop in Overland, Kansas, and the father of two Eagle Scouts.

“The individual troop has a much better sense of who has a positive or negative influence on the boys,” pointed out Glenn Carney, another assistant scoutmaster and dad of two Eagle Scouts.

But making the decision locally also puts a burden on the troop — and its volunteers, Kent Bredehoeft, Scoutmaster and father of two Scouts told me. “BSA relies on volunteers, and this puts the volunteers in a difficult political situation that, without clear BSA policy, takes away their attention from delivering the BSA mission.”

He questioned what kind of support the national office will give local troops “except to say it’s your decision.” Bredehoeft added that the decision will “be a very challenging one.”

Another dad, who preferred to remain anonymous, said as long as any Scout met the requirements, including being reverent and morally straight (that phrase was used before straight had a sexual connotation), his sexual orientation didn’t matter.

Just as reaction nationally is mixed, not every parent liked the idea of a change in policy, however. “I lost my ability to advance in scouting as a young man because of a scoutmaster who was a pedophile,” one dad wrote me in an email. “I am dead set against gays in scouting.”

Allowing openly gay leaders seemed tougher for some parents to accept. One mom, who prefaced her remarks with the belief that homosexuality does not equal pedophilia, still admitted she would worry about the safety of the boys.

“Most of BSA’s constituent parents view this as a safety issue more than a moral issue,” another dad wrote in an email. “I think BSA thinks the notion continues to exist among parents of elementary school age boys, making the decision whether to let their sons join an organization where there will be lots of overnight trips to isolated locations, in the company of relatively few adult leaders, that their sons are more at risk of being molested if those leaders include homosexuals.”

Certainly the reputation of Boy Scouts has been tarnished with reports of molestations and the court-ordered release of secret files, also referred to as the “perversion files,” that listed names of suspected child molesters. BSA has worked hard to protect boys in recent years; since 1987, two-deep leadership has been instituted (which, if followed, protects both boys and adult leaders). Any adult member of Boy Scouts is required to update Youth Protection Training every two years. And any evidence of sexual abuse of a Scout must be reported to the local police.

I hope the issue of allowing gays does not end up destroying the organization. As the mom of a 15-year-old who’s been involved in Scouting since kindergarten, I’ve seen the positive side of Boy Scouts. I’ve seen him develop responsibility and leadership skills. I’ve seen other boys grow and mature.

I asked some of the older Scouts in the troop what they thought of the possible change in policy; they didn’t see a problem. One Eagle Scout bluntly put it, “It’s [anti-gay policy] ridiculous….It’s terribly sad to see limited opportunities for others because of stupid and absurd reasons.”

Another Eagle Scout didn’t think sexual orientation should prevent anyone from the benefits of the Scouting experience, including obtaining his Eagle. But he also wondered how many churches across the country would revoke charters to an organization that allowed an openly gay leader.

One dad who sent me an email summed it up well, I thought, using the Boy Scout Law: ” ‘Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean and Reverent.’ Don’t see anything in there that excludes gays.”


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...mbers-leaders/
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Old 01-30-2013, 05:17 AM   #31
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It'd have to be someone I know. At least that would make me feel a little bit better about it.

But I think scouts are kinda stupid anyways....nothing that a father and son can't learn together out in the woods or on a camping trip etc
Part of it is leadership training. They're in a group, and they're supposed to problem solve together and police each other, help each other, etc. It's not just outdoors and camping skills.
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Old 01-30-2013, 05:26 AM   #32
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Now there will be a position for defrocked priests to have a shot at...
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:36 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Deberg_1990 View Post

Just as reaction nationally is mixed, not every parent liked the idea of a change in policy, however. “I lost my ability to advance in scouting as a young man because of a scoutmaster who was a pedophile,” one dad wrote me in an email. “I am dead set against gays in scouting.”
That's funny. That is exactly why I left the Catholic church. OK, not really. I just wanted to make fun of pedo priests.

Quote:
“Most of BSA’s constituent parents view this as a safety issue more than a moral issue,” another dad wrote in an email. “I think BSA thinks the notion continues to exist among parents of elementary school age boys, making the decision whether to let their sons join an organization where there will be lots of overnight trips to isolated locations, in the company of relatively few adult leaders, that their sons are more at risk of being molested if those leaders include homosexuals.”
There really isn't anything preventing a parent from going along on those trips. Just apathy. If they are really that concerned they can be active in the organization and start putting some time in, instead of dumping their kids onto the leaders, assistant leaders and helpers.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:38 AM   #34
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Only 2% of priests were guilty.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:44 AM   #35
listopencil listopencil is offline
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Originally Posted by CoMoChief View Post
It'd have to be someone I know. At least that would make me feel a little bit better about it.

But I think scouts are kinda stupid anyways....nothing that a father and son can't learn together out in the woods or on a camping trip etc
There are a ton of group activities that the scouts take part in that you can't do with just a father and a son.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:44 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Only 2% of priests were guilty.
Just the tip?
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:55 AM   #37
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BTW isn't there already a gay organization called the 'Man Scouts'??
There is a pro wrestler called "The Man Scout" Jake Manning.




He's also a part of an organization called $5 Wrestling, which is maybe one of the most hilarious things I've ever seen.

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yeah i may be a retard but I'll be the one banging your girlfriend when you're out with your friends.
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:26 PM   #38
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Because that is what a group of Cub Scouts is called?

Cub Scouts:

dens -> pack

Boy Scouts:

patrols -> troop
Woosh! You missed my joke. ( Clue is in my earlier post.)
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:28 PM   #39
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Just the tip?
No, it was a very small percent by actual case. By anonymous survey you may take it to 4%.
It was just that few did it repeatedly to so many boys that it appears as if it was a lot of priests. It wasn't. It's higher among therapists and teachers. Happens in families too. Pedophiles go where children are and in trusted positions.
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:21 PM   #40
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Only 2% of priests were guilty.
Source? Proof? Link? Anything?
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:25 PM   #41
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Source? Proof? Link? Anything?
www.wearenotchildmolesterswearepriests.com

questions?
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:25 PM   #42
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See past threads by using search, covering that in detail with links. People who were here saw them already.
I don't repeat long debates if I can help it but reserve the right to just make a short post on the same essential points.
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:31 PM   #43
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Yes--Not sure if serious. I guess that is a statement, but--not sure if serious.
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:34 PM   #44
Graystoke Graystoke is offline
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Just last summer BSA had reaffirmed its stand to keep gays out. But it wasn’t a popular move. Membership in BSA is on the decline — and financial support is falling as well. The Merck Company Foundation, Intel Foundation, UPS and United Way have stopped or postponed donations due to the anti-gay policy of the 102-year-old organization

Boy Scouts is on the decline because Youth Culture has changed and Parental Involvement is nill.
Hate to say it but the BSA is on its way out. It is a top heavy institution.
I really enjoyed having my boys go through, but at a certain point all the crap rules, more meetings then learning, all the begging for cash got to us.
Letting Gays in isn't going to save them or kill them at this point.
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:35 PM   #45
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
See past threads by using search, covering that in detail with links. People who were here saw them already.
I don't repeat long debates if I can help it but reserve the right to just make a short post on the same essential points.
Yeah. The last thing I'm going to do is go on a wild goose chase looking for your claims that you actually backed up one of your assertions. You refuse to back up any of the shit I call you out on, so I kind of don't feel like taking the time to search for what's likely to be some bullshit post where you think you proved a point.

I take this as--once again, you're full of it.
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