After the fact - KC's smoking ban, three+ years later

[Bowser]

So, now that we have had time to adjust and absorb the smoking ban, how do you feel about it? Was it a good thing, a bad thing, still an unholy infringement on our "civil rights", or do you just not care one way or another?

Poll to come.

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by listopencil

In this case the business owners are the minority. The issue is arising in a place of business, the agency tasked with protecting worker health gives smoking a pass, and there is already a capitalistic mechanism in place offering consumers a choice in the matter. I see it as unnecessary legislation, and an example of the majority unfairly infringing upon the rights of the minority via popular vote.

I can understand how you see it that way. I think that's a reasonable perspective.

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by Phobia

I wonder how many other people we can catch in this net. I'm glad I don't fall into that category. Even though I enjoy smoking bans because I'm selfish, I respect the rights of the business owner more than anything else. I think the guy who pays the bills and has (in many cases) spent thousands of dollars on smoke handling equipment should have the right to determine if he wants to allow smoking in his establishment. If you want to pass a law to grandfather existing establishments in and restrict smoking in new restaurants then at least a potential business owner has a choice whether he wants to invest in your city... I can swallow that pill easier than telling guys who have allowed smoking for years.

I am fine with passing (reasonable) stricter air quality standards if a city wants to. I may not agree with it but at least it has SOME merit to it. In those cases if a business wants to allow smoking they would have to make sure that it never causes them to fall below the legal standard. As you said, they could install equipment to mitigate that or simply choose to not allow smoking.

But smoking bans aren't about air quality they never have been and never will be. They are about one vocal group bullying private businesses by using the violent force of the law. It's reprehensible behavior.

The smoking ban in Austin is GREAT for me. The opportunity to chat up women at a bar goes up exponentially on the smoking patio... but just because it works out for me doesn't make it ok.

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

No, No you don't understand it. You really can be spectacularly dense. The point is that people are fine with supporting laws that don't limit THEIR freedom. The point I made illustrates how different it is when a person is actually affected by an arbitrary action. Like I said, I think a vacation is good for them... so it must be ok right? Hell it doesn't affect me but that doesn't matter because I know what's best for them.

I got the point. Again, it could have been made the way you just made it.

Instead, you banned one of the cooler dudes on the forum because you were pissed.

It would be a really, really dumb way to have a conversation if you were ever interested in actually having one, rather than just screaming and ridiculing.

[listopencil]

Originally Posted by Phobia

I wonder how many other people we can catch in this net. I'm glad I don't fall into that category. Even though I enjoy smoking bans because I'm selfish, I respect the rights of the business owner more than anything else. I think the guy who pays the bills and has (in many cases) spent thousands of dollars on smoke handling equipment should have the right to determine if he wants to allow smoking in his establishment. If you want to pass a law to grandfather existing establishments in and restrict smoking in new restaurants then at least a potential business owner has a choice whether he wants to invest in your city... I can swallow that pill easier than telling guys who have allowed smoking for years.

This thread is really odd for me. We've had smoking bans out here in Cali for quite a while. Every time I discuss it with people that I know (smokers and non smokers) no one seems to be able to come up with a good reason for them. No one seems to actually support the bans. The strongest opposition I've heard is "Well...it's bad for you." I live in NorCal though and we tend to pass it off as a SoCal nanny state thing. I was thinking that you guys who live in KC might have a more lively conversation about it. I didn't vote in the poll because I don't live there. Is there anything to the argument in favor of these bans at all?

[cosmo20002]

Originally Posted by listopencil

This thread is really odd for me. We've had smoking bans out here in Cali for quite a while. Every time I discuss it with people that I know (smokers and non smokers) no one seems to be able to come up with a good reason for them. No one seems to actually support the bans. The strongest opposition I've heard is "Well...it's bad for you." I live in NorCal though and we tend to pass it off as a SoCal nanny state thing. I was thinking that you guys who live in KC might have a more lively conversation about it. I didn't vote in the poll because I don't live there. Is there anything to the argument in favor of these bans at all?

Well, there was an attempt...

[listopencil]

Originally Posted by cosmo20002

Well, there was an attempt...

Should we revisit the issue post bans perhaps?

[Cannibal]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

Yes, your post made it seem as if you were saying I was editing people's posts in THIS thread.

And I'm not a ****ing MOD. That's annoying.

And no I won't unban Dirk. In all likelihood he doesn''t give a shit and my entire point is moot...but hopefully ...maybe... it annoys him enough to make my point stick... even if he still completely disagrees and thinks I am a total douche... at least he'll know how others feel about him when he supports crap like a smoking ban.

You couldn't make the point without banning him, therefore your argument was weak.

[Cannibal]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Well, so much for not having the time to edit posts, amiright.



That's a pretty flimsy excuse to ban somebody. But I do love how you've admitted such. Just another in a long line of ridiculous bullshit you impose upon left leaning posters in DC who disagree with you.

You've got thin skin, a nonexistent fuse, and a commitment to your own infallibility.

All of which just make you a delight.

Good point.

[mlyonsd]

Well anyway, as I said before I can't believe it's illegal for a business owner to allow smoking in his establishment since cigarettes/cigars are legal to begin with.

That said, why not authorize a certain number of permits kind of like liquor licenses and limit them.

Smokers and non-smokers alike would have places to go.

[go bowe]

Originally Posted by mlyonsd

Well anyway, as I said before I can't believe it's illegal for a business owner to allow smoking in his establishment since cigarettes/cigars are legal to begin with.

That said, why not authorize a certain number of permits kind of like liquor licenses and limit them.

Smokers and non-smokers alike would have places to go.

that solution is far too reasonable to have any chance...

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by go bowe

that solution is far too reasonable to have any chance...

I think the best middle of the road solution is for a city to establish air quality standards and enforce those across the board... but if that isn't an option then this would be a pretty solid option as well. I don't like the additional burden placed on private property owners but it certainly does offer a way to reach a reasonable compromise on the issue. Far far better than the bullying that goes on now.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

Plenty calm right now and I still think it's disgusting that you think the way you do.

And the educating of CP continues! Since you are one of the one's who thinks it's fine to strip people's rights arbitrarily... I'll assume you won't have an issue when it happens to you. BYE. see ya in a few days.

This is as far as I've gotten since yesterday, and I already feel the need to light up a smoke. Indoors. Austin, if you were a chick, I'd fellate you.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Originally Posted by 300 Bowler

That's one of the worst examples of moderator abuse I've ever seen on ANY message board.

Shame on you.

**** you. It's his board. Don't like it? Kick rocks.

[stevieray]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

I got the point. Again, it could have been made the way you just made it.

Instead, you banned one of the cooler dudes on the forum because you were pissed.

It would be a really, really dumb way to have a conversation if you were ever interested in actually having one, rather than just screaming and ridiculing.

, you gigantic pussy.

[Mr. Flopnuts]

Originally Posted by frazod

You banned native? That's worth a $20 donation.

Ahh ****. Here comes the super PAC. This place is going to shit...