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Old 01-11-2013, 08:13 AM  
notorious notorious is offline
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Is an assault weapons ban out of reach?


Gun control debate: Is an assault weapons ban out of reach?


http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/...094810128.html

Vice President Joe Biden announced Thursday that he will recommend new gun control measures to President Barack Obama, which include more comprehensive background checks on gun buyers and limits on the sizes of ammunition magazines. The proposal could lead to the most significant move on guns in 20 years, but one regulation highly coveted by gun control advocates was notably missing: a ban on assault weapons.

In 1994, President Bill Clinton managed to push through a sweeping ban on certain kinds of semi-automatic weapons, dealing a crushing blow to the National Rifle Association and other gun lobbyists and sparking a political backlash that helped Republicans reclaim the House and Senate for the first time in 50 years.

That ban, which expired 10 years later in 2004, is still seen as the gold standard by many gun control advocates, who have been fighting in vain to get it reinstated—with some modifications—for years. Since the horrific Dec. 14 school shooting in Newtown, Conn., that left 20 first graders dead and sparked a national conversation about the nation's gun violence problem, many advocates think they see their chance.

"It is time to pass an enforceable and effective assault weapons ban," New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, the leading gun control advocate in the nation, said in a press conference after the shooting. Democratic lawmakers on Capitol Hill quickly introduced legislation to ban the weapons in late December.

But Biden's omission of the ban from his description of his package of proposals on Thursday suggests an assault weapons ban is out of reach. (It's still possible that the ban could be included in Biden's final proposal, which will be announced Tuesday, and both Biden and Obama have voiced support for the ban on other occasions in the past few weeks.) A lot has changed since 1994—including public opinion,the legal landscape and the political might of the NRA.

"I don't think a ban on assault weapons—which is a ban on some of the most popular rifles in America—is likely to get support," said Adam Winkler, a UCLA law professor and Second Amendment expert. "The 1994 ban was widely recognized to be ineffective and to be riddled with loopholes."

Because the Clinton-era ban focused on cosmetic features of semi-automatic weapons—such as whether the weapon had bayonet slugs—manufacturers could easily remove those features and produce legal guns that were functionally identical to the banned weapons. These loopholes gave the ban a bad rap, making it ineffective on top of being politically toxic.

Another change since the 90s-era ban is that many semi-automatic weapons are more popular now, including the Bushmaster AR-15 rifle used in the Newtown shooting, which is one of the best selling rifles in America. There are at least 3 million AR-15-type rifles in America today, and semi-automatic handguns have overtaken revolvers as the most popular handguns. (Gun ownership on the whole, however, is down since 1994.)

Meanwhile, public opinion on gun control shifted as violent crime started falling in the late 90s. Starting in about 2000, fewer and fewer Americans expressed interest in stricter gun control laws: 78 percent favored stricter gun laws in 1990 compared to only 44 percent between 2010 and 2012.

The majority of Americans would not favor the banning of certain kinds of weapons altogether, such as the assault weapons ban. In 2001, 59 percent of Americans favored that ban, but now the number has dropped to 44 percent.

Some of this public opinion shift may be due to the efforts of the NRA, which has grown more powerful since its defeat in the 90s. "The NRA has about a million more members than it did before and it's got 20 more years' experience on the issue," said David Kopel, an adjunct law professor at New York University and research director at the conservative think tank the Independence Institute.

The NRA told Politico that it has gained 100,000 new members since the Newtown shooting.

Even if gun control advocates were able to pass an assault weapons ban, it would most certainly face a legal challenge.

In a recent U.S. Supreme Court decision, a majority of justices ruled that the government cannot ban an entire class of weapons (in this case, handguns) that are commonly used by law abiding gun owners for legitimate reasons, such as self defense. The government could argue that semi-automatic weapons are not commonly used for self defense, but it's still unclear how the Supreme Court might rule.

The news isn't all gloomy for the gun control side, though. If Obama is able to limit magazine sizes or expand gun background checks, it will still represent one of the biggest gun control victories in decades, and a huge departure from the near political silence on the issue over the past few years. And there's some evidence that the public would be more supportive of such a move since the shooting re-ignited the debate. A Gallup poll taken a week after the Newtown shooting found that 58 percent of Americans wanted gun laws to be stricter, a big jump from the 44 percent who said the same when polled a few months earlier.

And the proposals that Biden said he will present to the president have broad public support. A majority of Americans support requiring background checks for all gun buyers, which would happen if Congress closes the current gun show loophole that allows about 40 percent of firearms to be sold without a background check. Most people also said they would support banning ammunition magazines that carry more than 10 bullets.

Last edited by notorious; 01-11-2013 at 08:18 AM..
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Old 01-11-2013, 06:21 PM   #46
RaiderH8r RaiderH8r is offline
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Who cares about what Feinstein proposes. The votes simply aren't there. There is not some complicated master-plan to get things passed, they don't have the votes, and the gun-control folks who thought they finally might have a chance are only now beginning to realize it.

They will never have the votes, because every state has 2 senators, and there are just too many rural states. Dems do have the capability of winning a rural senate seat here and there (and therefore, are able to control the chamber), but virtually every single one of those rural state dems are A-rated by the NRA.

Heidi Heitkamp (who just won in ND) just recently came out against the AWB and vowed to vote against it. There's no way in hell a guy like Begich, who faces a tough re-election in Alaska, is going to vote for it either. Tester from MT? Forget about it. There are no anti-gun Republicans on the other side. Hell, I don't think even Harry Reid would vote for it, he's not stupid and he came damned close to getting scalped by a raving nutbag last time.

Its really not complicated. Who knows long-term about the house, perhaps one day that might flip over to supporting new gun control laws, but the Senate is the unbreachable bulwark.
Make senate Dems take a vote, I dare them here's the casualty list for this year:

Laundrieu-LA
Baucus-MT
Begich-AK
Pryor-VA
Johnson-SD
Warner-VA
And it puts whoever runs to replace Rockefeller in WV in a box.

Joe Manchin can't take that vote, Tester, Heitkamp, Donnelly can't either. Bennett and Udall would struggle in CO. Just puts the Ds entire western strategy at risk so yeah, call the vote ****ers.
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Old 01-11-2013, 07:00 PM   #47
Aries Walker Aries Walker is offline
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I'd be fine if the assault weapons ban was abandoned, in favor of concentrating on the universal background checks, limits on magazine sizes, and especially more stringent mental health checks.
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Old 01-11-2013, 07:30 PM   #48
RedNeckRaider RedNeckRaider is offline
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Originally Posted by Aries Walker View Post
I'd be fine if the assault weapons ban was abandoned, in favor of concentrating on the universal background checks, limits on magazine sizes, and especially more stringent mental health checks.
You are a knee jerk clown, the fact you have to list limits on magazines shows you are nothing more than the fashionable ****head trying to sound reasonable~
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:05 PM   #49
Iowanian Iowanian is offline
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Originally Posted by Aries Walker View Post
I'd be fine if the assault weapons ban was abandoned, in favor of concentrating on the universal background checks, limits on magazine sizes, and especially more stringent mental health checks.
I'd be fine with you leaving my gun rights alone, not worrying about my magazine size.....and focus on punishing criminals.

If this country is serious about stopping violent crime, it will start throwing away violent criminals forever. Keep those repeat assholes off the streets and we'll all be better, and when mental health professionals deem a lunatic to be an un-savable lunatic....well bye.
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:10 PM   #50
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When the gubment decided drunk driving was getting out of hand, it didn't ban alcohol or driving.They showed survivors and victims. They drilled safety into our minds. They let everyone know the penalties would be stiffer if convicted. Everyone rallyed together. Bans seperate sides.

The networks need to stop making mass shooters into mini-celebrities. Every network needs to let everyone know that they will not put your name in the media when you go on a killing spree. Nobody will here your sob story. ****youverymuch.
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:16 PM   #51
CrazyPhuD CrazyPhuD is offline
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Originally Posted by notorious View Post
..

Biden: ‘No silver bullet’ against gun violence


A copy of the book Vice President Joe Biden said on Friday he was “shooting for Tuesday” to get President Barack Obama his recommendations on how to battle an epidemic of gun violence and warned “there’s no silver bullet” to stop the killing.

Biden was meeting in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building adjacent to the White House with executives from video game companies whose products have often been blamed for making players insensitive to real-world violence.

"I come to this meeting with no judgment. You all know the judgment other people have made," Biden said. (He did not elaborate, but one attendee brought a copy of the book “Grand Theft Childhood: The Surprising Truth About Violent Video Games.” A summary is here.)

The vice president has been meeting with government officials, gun-violence victims and their advocates, retailers, Hollywood executives and groups like the National Rifle Association that advocate gun rights.

He said earlier this week that he hoped to get his report—commissioned in the aftermath of the elementary school slaughter in Newtown, Conn.—to Obama on Tuesday. His advice is expected to reinforce Obama's calls for Congress to renew the assault weapons ban, toughen background checks and impose new restrictions on purchases of high-capacity ammunition magazines.

"I'm shooting for Tuesday. I hope I get it done by then,” he said on Friday, cautioning that "we know that there's no silver bullet."

Biden asked whether a “coarsening of our culture” might be partly to blame, but added: "I do not know the answer to that question."






God Bless Biden. He either has a sick sense of humor or just doesn't know any better.
Actually there is a silver bullet for stopping gun violence. Stop ****ing banning shit.

Alcohol....banned in 1920
People started shooting the **** out of other people to smuggle illegal booze.
Alcohol...unbanned in 1933
Gangster crime drops

1960s people are going all free love and drug experimentation....
1970 Controlled substance act passed to ban possession etc.
1973 DEA founded
and in the 1980s the drug wars start that run today.

How many inner city people are shot every day in drug related violence? How much of that would disappear if instead of prohibition we established a stance of regulation and addiction treatment.

Because it's not drugs or booze that's the problem it's ****ing addiction. If we spent the trillions of dollars we spent on the drug war treating addiction how many fewer people would be dead today?

You want the silver bullet, there it is, stop banning shit. The problem is, people enjoy telling someone else what they should and should not do.
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:38 PM   #52
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
If it was me I would go all high-tech and use this for multiple things...

1. Biometric National ID Card with person's important personal information
a. Name, SSN, address, DOB etc
b. Criminal history that can be updated in real time
c. Military history
d. immigration history
e. drivers\insurance\motor vehicle history
In order to buy a gun (private or through FFL), vote, etc all you have to scan the card and it will instantly run a check to see if you are eligible etc etc...
That type of thing has been nullified by states and not enforced. It's another bad, tyrannical idea.
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:40 PM   #53
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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They want to give Biden something to do to get in the news. They're afraid Hillary might not be a good candidate in the next election, and so they're trying to make Biden look like he's competent and can take the lead on something.

All they need to come out of it is a couple of small regulations and then they can say Biden was a success at something.
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Old 01-12-2013, 04:40 AM   #54
CoMoChief CoMoChief is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
If it was me I would go all high-tech and use this for multiple things...

1. Biometric National ID Card with person's important personal information
a. Name, SSN, address, DOB etc
b. Criminal history that can be updated in real time
c. Military history
d. immigration history
e. drivers\insurance\motor vehicle history
In order to buy a gun (private or through FFL), vote, etc all you have to scan the card and it will instantly run a check to see if you are eligible etc etc...
Nice try Hitler
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