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Old 12-26-2012, 06:21 PM  
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Anti-Gun Newspaper Outs Law-Abiding Gun Owners

If this is buried somewhere, I didn't see it. Don't really give a shit if it's a repost, either.

http://www.lohud.com/usatoday/article/1791507

N.Y. newspaper's gun-owner database draws criticism

WHITE PLAINS, N.Y. -- Thousands of people have taken to their computers and phones in rage after The Journal News posted an online database of local gun-permit holders.

The database, legally obtained from the County Clerks' Offices through a Freedom of Information Act request made after the shootings in Sandy Hook, Conn., that left 20 children and eight adults dead, has been called irresponsible, dangerous and leaning toward intimidation by online pundits.

Social media played a big part in the exponential spread of the story, whose map has been recommended more than 20,000 times. Two Facebo

Numerous additional comments relating to the gun-permit map have appeared on posts in other unrelated articles. More than a dozen more people sent private messages via Facebook objecting to the map. The overwhelming majority of comments strongly object to the article.ok posts linking to the article on Sunday garnered 346 comments as of Tuesday evening. That's in addition to 167 comments posted directly to Facebook.com/LoHud since the article was published.

The database also was mentioned in the Drudge Report, Memorandum.com, Breitbart.com, Thegatewaypundit.com, Instapundit, iOwnTheWorld.com and UrbanGrounds, along with Yahoo, ABC News and Fox News, among others.

More than 500 comments -- on both sides of the debate -- accompanied an article on CNN.com Tuesday.

The Journal News is owned by Gannett Co. Inc., which is also the parent company of USA TODAY.

Hundreds of callers have complained, claiming publication of the database put their safety at risk or violated their privacy. Others claimed publication was illegal. Many of the callers were vitriolic and some threatened members of the newspaper staff.

"New York residents have the right to own guns with a permit and they also have a right to access public information," said Janet Hasson, president and publisher of The Journal News Media Group.

Robert Freeman, executive director of the state Committee on Open Government and an expert in the state's Freedom of Information law, has said all government records and data are presumed public unless a specific statute bars their release. Names and addresses are specifically deemed public records, he said.

This is not the first time The Journal News has been criticized for publishing information about gun permits. A similar article in 2006 received similar responses, although social media did not play as large a part in the spread of the article or of the complaints.

"We knew publication of the database would be controversial, but we felt sharing as much information as we could about gun ownership in our area was important in the aftermath of the Newtown shootings," said CynDee Royle, editor and vice president/news.

"People are concerned about who owns guns and how many of them there are in their neighborhoods," she said. "Our Freedom of Information request also sought specifics on how many and what types of weapons people owned. That portion of the request was denied."

Scott F. Williams, 41, of Haddon Heights, N.J., who served in the Marines as a rifleman, was one of the very few callers who agreed to identify themselves and comment on why they called.

"This is what I see," he said. "It's all in the context of the shootings in Newtown ... it gets us all talking about gun control. That people are at a heightened concern makes sense to me. I am a gun owner and a pro-Second-Amendment (person). I try to be rational." He called the newspaper's decision to link to the database "highly Orwellian."

"The implications are mind-boggling," he said. "It's as if gun owners are sex offenders (and) to own a handgun risks exposure as if one is a sex offender. It's, in my mind, crazy."

*****

Welcome to the Peoples Republik of New York, kids. Frankly, I don't know what's worse - the fact that this ****ing liberal rag actually did this, or the fact that some dumbass government official felt it was appropriate to release the information. Outing law abiding citizens guilty of nothing but exercising their constitutional rights - what a disgusting, despicable, dangerous abuse of power and betrayal of the public trust. Sane people don't advertise to their neighbors that they own guns - they don't flash them in the window, they don't have GUNS HERE INQUIRE WITHIN signs in their yards. Just like conceal carry, anonymity is important here. Now any punk who clicks on this site will know where they can go steal a gun. It essentially rings the dinner bell for them - just find a remote house on this list, and if nobody's home, break in and start looking. I guess if these gun owners didn't have alarm systems before, they'd better get one now. And so much for leaving your pistol in the nightstand - now you'll need an expensive safe. Thank God most thieving scumbags who'd steal guns don't read the news (or anything else), but surely somebody's going to take advantage of this, and when it happens, I sure as hell hope these ****ing vermin are held accountable for their irresponsible actions.

If my name and address was on this list..... well, my reaction sure as **** wouldn't be a sternly-worded e-mail.

But of course, these vile twats will hide behind the First Amendment. Gotta love people shitting on Constitution and then hiding behind it when the outrage hits.

And that idiot Direckshun had the balls to complain about the money the NRA raises, when the opposition has the ability to pull crap like this.

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Old 12-31-2012, 12:04 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frazod View Post
It's abused far more often than the Second.

The assholes who posted the map. News networks dedicated to spreading government propaganda and little else. Scum like Fred Phelps. Paparazzi. If any amendment needs a ****ing overhaul, it's this one.
Speech, per the SC, has some restraints on it. Creating imminent danger or inciting to violence are some. Libel and slander. Even obscenity because, afterall, our Framers were referring to political speech. I don't know if it's as many as on the 2nd. I haven't added them all up. But no one needs a govt permit to speech yet.
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Old 12-31-2012, 12:06 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by lostcause View Post
Well, not falsely, no. That was the basis of Holmes decision in Schenck.


The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic. The question in every case is whether the words used are used in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils that Congress has a right to prevent.

The possibility of breaking and entering into a house where the perp would have reason to believe the home owner had guns at his/her disposal is not a substantive evil. The newspaper did not create a clear and present danger in publicizing who had gun permits. Forbes tells us who the richest people in the world are and that would seem to cause a case for breaking and entering, yet its still legal and not despicable or verminous.
Right, those Forbes-list people, I can't image why nobody goes and steals all their shit. I mean, it's just there for the taking, right?

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Old 12-31-2012, 12:07 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by lostcause View Post
I think you're actually foaming at the mouth now.
Much like most of your thoughts, this is one both wrong and stupid.

Try again, window licker.
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Old 12-31-2012, 12:08 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by lostcause View Post
Well, not falsely, no. That was the basis of Holmes decision in Schenck.


The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic. The question in every case is whether the words used are used in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils that Congress has a right to prevent.
I see you used one of the same sources as I. There's also obscenity, lying under oath, slander and libel too.

Quote:
The possibility of breaking and entering into a house where the perp would have reason to believe the home owner had guns at his/her disposal is not a substantive evil. The newspaper did not create a clear and present danger in publicizing who had gun permits. Forbes tells us who the richest people in the world are and that would seem to cause a case for breaking and entering, yet its still legal and not despicable or verminous.
Like I said, turn your sarcasm meter on. ( referring to the original post where you first commented on this point) Just because something is legal, doesn't make it the right thing to do. It was irresponsible of them.
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Old 12-31-2012, 12:11 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Speech, per the SC, has some restraints on it. Creating imminent danger or inciting to violence are some. Libel and slander. I don't know if it's as many as on the 2nd. I haven't added them all up.
Ultimately, they are both vital to a free democracy. They don't always mutually agree, but legislators have decided both need restraints. The Bill of Rights creates a crucial doctrine for this country, but it has been found to require some limitations. Speech and guns are the two most contested of those rights (because inevitably religion gets a free pass).

All of the citizens that were "outed" have every RIGHT to have gun permits and the legal guns that those permits empower them to possess. That newspaper had a clear 1st amendment RIGHT to let people in the area know who had gun permits by courtesy of accessing PUBLIC information. That information being made public in that fashion is timely and pertinent to current discussions, but it is not irresponsible or clearly dangerous.

The right to have guns is not absolute. The right to speech is not absolute. To have a gun permit, in at least New York, means that that particular bit of information is in the public domain. To have that information shared should not shock or upset you in the least.
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Old 12-31-2012, 12:14 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I see you used one of the same sources as I. There's also obscenity, lying under oath, slander and libel too.



Like I said, turn your sarcasm meter on. ( referring to the original post where you first commented on this point) Just because something is legal, doesn't make it the right thing to do. It was irresponsible of them.
Just because making an assault rifle available to a troubled individual is legal, doesn't mean it is the right thing to do. It is irresponsible.
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Old 12-31-2012, 01:31 AM   #82
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No where in the 2nd Amendment does it say we have the right to bear arms WITH A PERMIT. Yet some politicians in certain states added this law. And now you think it's ok for LAW ABIDING gun owners to have their information public because they followed the laws and acquired a permit? You have the right to multiple abortions paid for with tax dollars without a permit. Should that be published in the papers?

Let's turn the tables. Now criminals know who has firearms in their homes. However, he also now knows who DOESN'T have firearms in their house. I see that Cute Suzy doesn't have a gun, according to the newspaper. She'll be easy an easy target!!! *packs up rape kit*

Publishing this information is wreckless and idiotic.
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Old 12-31-2012, 04:50 AM   #83
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Good thing the newspaper didn't publish who does and doesn't have baseball bats, Bowie knives, home invasion alarms, deadbolts, unlicensed firearms, and bloodthirsty Rottweilers.

Was the reporter allowed to publish the list? Yes. Was it responsible of him to do so? Not really. While some nefarious criminal can, if they like, dig in to the public records and compile the information themselves, it makes it a lot easier for them to carry out their evil deeds with all the leg work done for them, and presented neatly in map form. Sort of like how . . . well, a nefarious criminal can kill someone with a brick, but it makes it a lot easier for them to do so with a handy-dandy firearm. Funny how that works out.

Circulating pictures of the reporter's house is just as irresponsible, if not moreso, like being the third hockey player to enter a fight. However, since it will likely end up being an irresponsible reporter just getting his front yard TP'ed nightly for a couple of weeks and a couple of dead chickens in the mail, I can't muster a whole lot of sympathy for him.
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:16 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by lostcause View Post
Just because making an assault rifle available to a troubled individual is legal, doesn't mean it is the right thing to do. It is irresponsible.
That's another topic. You're now acting like a five year old with a copycat post intended as tit-for- tat.
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:18 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by rockymtnchief View Post
No where in the 2nd Amendment does it say we have the right to bear arms WITH A PERMIT.
It's not a natural fundamental right if you need permission.
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:19 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Aries Walker View Post

Circulating pictures of the reporter's house is just as irresponsible, if not moreso, like being the third hockey player to enter a fight. However, since it will likely end up being an irresponsible reporter just getting his front yard TP'ed nightly for a couple of weeks and a couple of dead chickens in the mail, I can't muster a whole lot of sympathy for him.
You need to delete the "more so" part. Knowing who doesn't have a gun, more likely could to more dangerous crimes than a tp'd yard.
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:25 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by lostcause View Post
Ultimately, they are both vital to a free democracy. They don't always mutually agree, but legislators have decided both need restraints. The Bill of Rights creates a crucial doctrine for this country, but it has been found to require some limitations. Speech and guns are the two most contested of those rights (because inevitably religion gets a free pass).

All of the citizens that were "outed" have every RIGHT to have gun permits and the legal guns that those permits empower them to possess. That newspaper had a clear 1st amendment RIGHT to let people in the area know who had gun permits by courtesy of accessing PUBLIC information. That information being made public in that fashion is timely and pertinent to current discussions, but it is not irresponsible or clearly dangerous.

The right to have guns is not absolute. The right to speech is not absolute. To have a gun permit, in at least New York, means that that particular bit of information is in the public domain. To have that information shared should not shock or upset you in the least.
I see you still haven't turned your sarcasm meter on.

As for rights being absolute, that's when other rights conflict with another. But needing a permit? Just wow. We don't have permits for speech, or religion. It's not a right if one needs a permit. That's what a privelege is. That's well beyond the absolute point and encroaches on infringement.

Do you know what infringement means? It means an encroachment on a right.
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Old 12-31-2012, 11:05 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
That's another topic. You're now acting like a five year old with a copycat post intended as tit-for- tat.
ad hominem
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As long as Jesus Christ was the president of the US and approved of it Yes.
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Old 12-31-2012, 04:43 PM   #89
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ad hominem
No that one was about his post behavior. Besides, I never said I, or some others don't resort to it on occasion. Unlike you, it's not my main posting style. ( and usually when it is it's retaliatory like with you ) It's yours.

Now, let's look at what I have actually said: I said you almost exclusively use it and rarely debate points. Like nearly 90% of the time. When you do attempt to argue a point, you change the persons argument or twist for a strawman. You rely on logical fallacies nearly 100% of the time.
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Old 01-01-2013, 12:28 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I see you still haven't turned your sarcasm meter on.

As for rights being absolute, that's when other rights conflict with another. But needing a permit? Just wow. We don't have permits for speech, or religion. It's not a right if one needs a permit. That's what a privelege is. That's well beyond the absolute point and encroaches on infringement.

Do you know what infringement means? It means an encroachment on a right.
Then have issue with the law, not the journalist.
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