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Old 12-19-2012, 01:43 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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A gun control law that would actually work?

I'd say so.

A rundown of the idea:
  • A ban on firearms -- rifle or pistol -- that can hold more than six bullets.
  • A ban on firearms with detachable magazines.
Aggressive measures, sure. But one that would considerably slow down future rampages.

I don't know if that'd include buybacks on those kinds of firearms already out in the market, but to piss off the absolute maximum of the anti-gun control folks among us, let's go with that.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/...y-work/266342/

A Gun Control Law That Would Actually Work
By Robert Wright
Dec 17 2012, 10:03 AM ET Comment

The AR-15 is getting its fifteen minutes of fame. Whole articles in major newspapers are devoted to the rifle that Adam Lanza used in the Newtown shooting, as the nation begins to debate restoring the ban on "assault weapons."

But the assault weapons issue is a red herring.

First of all, there's no clear and simple definition of an assault weapon, and this fact has in the past led to incoherent regulation. The defunct 1994 assault weapons ban, according to the Wall Street Journal, outlawed "semiautomatic rifles that accepted detachable magazines and possessed at least two other characteristics, including a protruding pistol grip, flash suppressor or threaded barrel or a folding or telescoping stock." Um, how important was it whether the gun Lanza used had a "flash suppressor"? And, by sacrificing that and a few other such features ("protruding pistol grip," etc.), a mass killer gets to keep his detachable magazine, for rapid reloading?

Second, focusing on assault weapons--or even rifles in general--distracts from the important issue of magazine capacity in pistols. It's true that if you had taken away Lanza's AR-15, he wouldn't have had a rifle that could fire 30 rounds without reloading. However, he was also carrying two pistols--a Glock 20 and a Sig Sauer P226--each of which can fire 15 rounds without reloading. And, actually, since two pistols are less conspicuous than a rifle, they're a more effective way to get 30 rounds of continuous fire into lots of public settings.

Imagine the following world, which it's within our power to create: It's illegal to sell or possess a firearm--rifle or pistol--that can hold more than six bullets. And it's illegal to sell or possess a firearm with a detachable magazine. In other words, once a shooter exhausted the six rounds, he couldn't just snap in another six-round magazine; he'd have to put six more bullets in the gun one by one.

In this world, a significant number of those 20 Newtown first graders would almost certainly be alive. Lanza reportedly fired six bullets from his AR-15 just to get inside the locked school. So, in the alternative universe I just described, he would then have to more or less exhaust one of his two pistols to kill the principal and school psychologist he encountered after entering. At that point, as he headed for the classrooms, he'd have six more rapid-fire bullets left, after which he'd have to reload his guns bullet by bullet.

Is there a single legitimate use of firearms that requires more than six rounds of continuous fire? Certainly not hunting. And not any sort of self-defense that's realistically imaginable, unless you've recently antagonized a Mexican drug cartel.

As the gun lobby gears up to battle proposals such as this one, you'll hear a lot about the fact that mass killings are actually a drop in the bucket of total homicides. True. But mass killings take a disproportionate toll on the nation psychologically and spiritually. Thirty individual people dying in isolated assaults in various cities is a horrible thing, but it doesn't terrify our children, and it doesn't turn our schools into bunkers.

The sort of law I'm describing would make lots of current guns illegal. (I actually own one.) So you'd have to phase the law in over a couple of years, and, to overcome political resistance, you might have to compensate gun owners for surrendering newly illegal guns--or for having them altered to comply with the law. And, even then, the resistance would be very, very strong. It might even turn out to be insurmountable. But if the question is "What could we do that would greatly reduce the scale of mass killings while preserving the right of Americans to use firearms for legitimate purposes," this, it seems to me, is a real answer.

Update, 12/17 4:25 p.m.: More than one commenter has noted that most handguns currently manufactured would be illegal under my proposal. True. (As I noted in the final paragraph, I own such a gun.) And on Twitter, @drgitlin has noted something I didn't realize: A revolver, which would be clearly legal under my proposal, can be loaded fairly quickly with a "speedloader." Well, if speedloaders are indeed so speedy that they're the functional equivalent of detachable magazines, they could be banned. And as for the fact that most or all non-revolver pistols would be illegal under my proposal: You'd be surprised how fast gun manufacturers would fill this void by designing semi-automatics that could hold a maximum of six bullets and could only be loaded one bullet at a time. I'm not saying this makes my proposal politically feasible; the number of existing owners of conventional semi-automatic pistols (i.e. semi-automatics with detachable magazines) might create insurmountable resistance to it, as I noted in the final paragraph. Still, governments do have the power to ban things that exist, and in this case creating substitutes that complied with the new law would be very doable. And, even if banning detachable magazines in pistols does prove politically infeasible, that doesn't mean we can't make real progress by doing the politically easier thing of banning all magazines, for both rifles and handguns, that hold more than six bullets. And it's a trivial matter for manufacturers to create magazines that would fit existing guns and comply with that law. In any event, we shouldn't be fooled into thinking that another ban on "assault weapons" is by itself significant progress.
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:14 PM   #61
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It's NOT A DIRE SITUATION. There are over 300,000,000 people in this country. Less than 100 have died in mass shootings this year.

Has anybody taken a shot at you this week? This year? Ever? Guess what - THAT'S MOST OF US.

Stop letting the media scare the shit out of you. There is not a psycho with a machine gun lurking around every corner. Guns are not littering the streets.

****.

I saw 50 of these scary guys on the way to the grocery store, hold me!
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:15 PM   #62
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This would be effective the same way that a ban on cars would reduce car accidents.

This "solution" is unacceptable.
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:16 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Carlota69 View Post
Well whatever he has, its has magazines and holds a shit ton of ammo...He is mental and will lose it someday. He shouldnt be able to purchase whatever he has with his history. but he can. Thats not good.
If you really feel that he's a danger, you can report it anonymously to the ATF.

http://www.atf.gov/contact/
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:17 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by notorious View Post
Tell the police and give them his full name. They will tell you if there is anything they can do.

Yes, and AK-47 is a semi-automatic rifle. Usually 16" barrel with a gas-piston system. Loved for is ruggedness and reliability.
He's buddies with a number of policemen. Im telling you its complicated, just as complicated as the conversation itself.

But we all know, one day, he'll lose it..and he may come here and blow us all away. he has the means to do it.
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:18 PM   #65
KILLER_CLOWN KILLER_CLOWN is offline
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Originally Posted by Carlota69 View Post
He's buddies with a number of policemen. Im telling you its complicated, just as complicated as the conversation itself.

But we all know, one day, he'll lose it..and he may come here and blow us all away. he has the means to do it.
You could always move.
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:18 PM   #66
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The AK-47 can be purchased legally if it's just semi. But if has the one where he can flip the switch to full you might wanna call the cops.
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:19 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by frazod View Post
"Guns on the streets" is almost as ****tardedly annoying as "bring 'em to justice."

If you have one street, and law abiding citizens living on it collectively own 100 firearms, which are all securely stored and have never been used in a crime (as opposed to being propped up on the curbs next to their mailboxes), I really don't see a problem with it.

However, if you have a carload of miscreant gangbangers driving down the same street in a car with four guns, actually shooting up the neighborhood because they're trying to bust a cap in Leroy's ass but Leroy ain't home and they can't hit anything anyway, that's a problem.
Quit whining like hcf does about clips
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:19 PM   #68
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Another thing that annoys me is this reference to "finally, we're going to have a conversation about guns"

Are you F'ing kidding me? We've had a conversation, repeatedly, over and over again, for decades. We have a conversation every time a shooting happens.

I bet if nothing is passed over the next two years, the left will lament our reluctance to ever have a conversation. Folks, the lack of action is not evidence that we refused to have a conversation. Just because your side loses does not mean the battle of ideas was never waged.

If, once again, no new gun control laws are passed, and politicians see no consequence (or more likely, a reward) for inaction, then that is the will of the voters, and you need to be able to take "no" for an answer.
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:19 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by KILLER_CLOWN View Post
You could always move.
Yeah quitting my job would work...
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:21 PM   #70
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Yeah quitting my job would work...
Transfer somewhere else? You are a disc Jockey right? I'm sure most female DJ's have stalkers.....not sure how long you've dealt with it. If i really thought someone was batshit crazy and packing serious heat I would either turn him in or move along.
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:24 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Carlota69 View Post
He's buddies with a number of policemen. Im telling you its complicated, just as complicated as the conversation itself.

But we all know, one day, he'll lose it..and he may come here and blow us all away. he has the means to do it.
This suggestion sucks, but would you feel more comfortable being equipped to fight back?


I am not trying to put you on the spot, but I have been in a similar situation with a local around here that was a ticking time-bomb. He wanted to learn how to fly (I'm an instructor) and he was constantly contacting me about it even though I told him that he wasn't in the proper condition to take lessons.

He finally got caught while drunk in his car and a loaded revolver in the passenger seat. He had mental issues, drug issues, etc. This all happened before I had my CCL, and every time I saw him I felt helpless.

Things are a lot different now.
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:24 PM   #72
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Another thing that annoys me is this reference to "finally, we're going to have a conversation about guns"

Are you F'ing kidding me? We've had a conversation, repeatedly, over and over again, for decades. We have a conversation every time a shooting happens.

I bet if nothing is passed over the next two years, the left will lament our reluctance to ever have a conversation. Folks, the lack of action is not evidence that we refused to have a conversation. Just because your side loses does not mean the battle of ideas was never waged.

If, once again, no new gun control laws are passed, and politicians see no consequence (or more likely, a reward) for inaction, then that is the will of the voters, and you need to be able to take "no" for an answer.
Having a conversation about gun control is like having a conversation about abortion.

One side wants it completely banned and the other side wants no restrictions.

Of course there is people in the middle like myself that would like reasonable solutions but they are usually shouted down by the idiots on both sides.
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:25 PM   #73
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Good thing no one has thought of the idea of a speed-loader for revolvers.

Oh wait....
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:27 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by KILLER_CLOWN View Post
Transfer somewhere else? You are a disc Jockey right? I'm sure most female DJ's have stalkers.....not sure how long you've dealt with it. If i really thought someone was batshit crazy and packing serious heat I would either turn him in or move along.
Ok, youre missing the point: First of all the guy with all the guns is a co-worker, who has ties with the police dept. Why should it be me quitting my job and going on unemployment instead of him not being able to purchase a zillion rounds of ammo for his semi automatics with his mental illness history??? Havent we established that people killing people in massacres are usually a little nutty and everyone around knew?? So why are we talking about me losing my ablitiy to earn a living instead of this guy losing his guns with his crazy ****ing past???

Secondly, I would like the oppurtunity to puirchase a gun if I need to if I ever get a stalker that scares me enough to do it. I am all for the 2 nd ammendment. I am all for the right to bear arms. Im just not sure that people with menatl illnesses should be able to purchase guns so easily.
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:28 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
Having a conversation about gun control is like having a conversation about abortion.

One side wants it completely banned and the other side wants no restrictions.

Of course there is people in the middle like myself that would like reasonable solutions but they are usually shouted down by the idiots on both sides.
AMEN.
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