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View Poll Results: Should we allow gays the same rights as hetrosexuals?
Yes 68 72.34%
No 8 8.51%
Leave it to the states. Not a federal issue. 17 18.09%
GAZ says FU BRC, you are gay 1 1.06%
Voters: 94. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-09-2012, 10:03 AM  
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
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SCOTUS to take on allowing Gays to marry. What say you?

There are two cases(DOMA and Proposition 8) to be heard by the SCOTUS this session.

At the base of the question is do gay Americans have the same rights as heterosexual Americans? And if so, do they need their constitutional rights protected at the federal level.

I've never had an openly gay friend, co-worker or family member. I did coach a little league baseball team. On that team I had a player with two Mom's. The players and the parents accepted the kid of the two Mom's as any other player. The other parents let their kids go over to the two Mom's house for sleepovers etc. It wasn't a factor to consider in the slightest.

I don't have any personal experience to know what rights is actually being denied. However, I believe that for whatever reason they were born that way. It's not a choice. You can't pray it out of them. You can't give them therapy and turn them into heterosexuals. They are what they are naturally and we should just accept them.

IMHO, the government/city/state/society have no right to tell it's citizens what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedroom. some of our citizens who they can and who they can't love. Who they can and can't marry. History will not be kind to the discrimination of gays, with cause. It's time to end this era of gay discrimination.
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:39 AM   #346
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I'll post this again because you forgot about it before - The same advantages or disadvantages should apply to each marriage. This was where I think the equal protection clause should be applied that I was referring to earlier.

The same goes for people who have children.
OK, well we're not getting anywhere so I'll let it drop. I think the equal protection clause should be applied everywhere, I just don't think it should work the way you think it should work.
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:41 AM   #347
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Where are all the pro slavery people today?
irrelevant

Unless you mean those who want us all on the plantation telling us who to hire, who to fire, and forcible extraction of income for redistribution.
In that case, it would be projection.
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:51 AM   #348
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I've gotta say, I'm impressed with these poll results.
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:57 AM   #349
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Originally Posted by AussieChiefsFan View Post
I've gotta say, I'm impressed with these poll results.
BRC's polls are usually worded in a way that biases the poll. That said, I'd expect a majority here to be in favor of allowing gays to marry so I don't find these results very surprising.
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:01 AM   #350
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
BRC's polls are usually worded in a way that biases the poll. That said, I'd expect a majority here to be in favor of allowing gays to marry so I don't find these results very surprising.
Over my time on this board, I have noticed that most people here aren't the typical republican that hates gay people, but I'm still a little surprised at the real lack of flat out "no" votes.
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:03 AM   #351
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We need to protect the ugly and stupid next. Single people should get access to government benefits as well!

I'm all for gay marriage. I think we need to drop benefits for people who partner up regardless of sexual orientation. A lot of people in the world are single and prefer it that way. They shouldn't be punished for it.
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:06 AM   #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts View Post
We need to protect the ugly and stupid next. Single people should get access to government benefits as well!
For a second there I though you were being real sarcastic.

Quote:
I'm all for gay marriage. I think we need to drop benefits for people who partner up regardless of sexual orientation. A lot of people in the world are single and prefer it that way. They shouldn't be punished for it.
But yeah, you have a good point.
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:08 AM   #353
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Originally Posted by AussieChiefsFan View Post
For a second there I though you were being real sarcastic.

But yeah, you have a good point.
The first line was sarcastic. Then I decided to get serious.
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:09 AM   #354
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Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts View Post
We need to protect the ugly and stupid next. Single people should get access to government benefits as well!

I'm all for gay marriage. I think we need to drop benefits for people who partner up regardless of sexual orientation. A lot of people in the world are single and prefer it that way. They shouldn't be punished for it.
Single people were born that way, just like black people!
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:12 AM   #355
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Single people were born that way, just like black people!
Exactly! Heh, what do you think Pat? Can we find some common ground here? Let's do away with child tax credits, and every other perk married people get. It's a damned entitlement! It needs to go!
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:16 AM   #356
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The first line was sarcastic. Then I decided to get serious.
Haha I was thinking "Wait a second, where's he going with this?"
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:23 AM   #357
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Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts View Post
Exactly! Heh, what do you think Pat? Can we find some common ground here? Let's do away with child tax credits, and every other perk married people get. It's a damned entitlement! It needs to go!
Just get rid of the income tax, and such things wouldn't even need consideration.
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:38 AM   #358
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people . . . . I as much as any man am in favor of the superior position assigned to the white race."

~ Abraham Lincoln, First Lincoln-Douglas Debate, Ottawa, Illinois, Sept. 18, 1858, in The Collected Works of Abraham
Lincoln vol.3, pp. 145-146.

If he did, he would have allowed the south to secede; wouldn't have tried to jail Justice Taney for stating the legislature, not the executive, can suspend Habeas Corpus; wouldn't have shut down printing presses criticizing his war; wouldn't have jailed congressman criticizing his war; wouldn't have shot draft protestors; provoked Fort Sumter into firing first; or invaded Virginia.

The Constitution got in Lincoln's way quite a bit. So I wouldn't call him a big believer in the Constitution. More like Lincoln destroyed the nation philosophically, even if he held it together geographically. Keep living in your fantasy land about Lincoln.

A history hack? A college professor who teaches economic history and is the author of books that unmask Lincoln pointing out what the hagiographers omitted? Obviously, you prefer court historians. This just shows what a statist you really are instead of a classical liberal.

Perhaps you should read, Lerone Bennett, Jr. the longtime executive editor of Ebony magazine and author of Forced into Glory: Abraham Lincoln’s White Dream. He points out some fiction about Lincoln too.

Instead you probably prefer plagiarist Doris Kearns-Goodwin and Spielberg who says his Lincoln was creative license.
First, your quote on Lincoln is not about slavery, at all. You continue to confuse anti slavery with racism. Lincoln did not become less racist until after he saw blacks preform on the battle ground. Just like he supported Colonization up into his presidency. Just like Henry Clay, a big early influence on his political views.

You are lying about history by posting quotes like that trying to imply that Lincoln was pro slavery. No body should believe your history takes when you go out of your way to distort history for your own political views. You are a hack.

The right to secede is not in the constitution. The word secede is not in the constitution. You are again lying. The majority of the country even during the Civil War did not agree that you could secede. The southern states never held a popular vote to secede. There is nothing constitutional about it. And don't you dare mention Nullification. It doesn't apply, Madison never was in favor of secession. You have no understanding of Nullification.

Habeas Corpus was only suspended in Maryland. (as well as the other charges you bring up) The reason was it was a boarder state. Lincoln could not have D.C. be in the Confederate. Are you aware that a confederate friendly mob attacked a train full of troops in Baltimore and tried to burn rail lines? What do you think would have happened if Maryland seceded? Lincoln, and I am sure your hack history doesn't cover this, also pardoned or released the vast majority of those arrested by state authorities. Hardly anyone spent any time in jail. Lincoln shot people? citation needed.

What other lies are you parroting? Ah yes, Lincoln provoked fort Sumter. What are tying to say with this? You don't want the south to have first shot?(yea your not a hack at all) The fort was running low on supplies. Lincoln sent a ship with food and supplies, not arms. Jefferson didn't have to fire on it.

Invasion of Virginia? During a war? And the problem is?

Books. I have Graduate level studies on this subject. Here is a book list for just one class: America's Civil War; Fiery Trial:Abraham Lincoln and Slavery; Pea Ridge:Civil War Battle in the West; Army at Home:Women and the Civil War on the Northern Home Front; The Civil War in Missouri

I don't need your hack, agenda filled internet fringe history.

You are also wrong on Politically correct history.

http://www.salon.com/2013/03/16/the_...the_civil_war/

Die-hard defenders of some version of the Lost Cause today say that the South has always been the victim of “political correctness” in school textbooks, and that this continues to this day. The truth is just the opposite: for decades, publishers of school textbooks went out of their way not to offend delicate Southern sensibilities in their treatment of the Civil War. One longtime publishing executive told me that when he got into the business in the 1960s, it was common to see two different versions of school history textbooks—one for in the Deep South and one for everywhere else, “and the difference was how you treated the Civil War.” By the mid-twentieth century, even textbooks that did not repeat the UDC party line still tiptoed carefully through the minefield. Take this passage, for example, from a widely used 1943 high school history textbook, which depicts a slave-holding South of stately mansions and benevolent slave owners: “The confederates . . . believed they were fighting for the democratic principle of freedom to manage their own affairs, just as the thirteen colonies had fought in the Revolutionary War.” The same textbook describes the Ku Klux Klan as a group that “sometimes” resorted to violence in its effort to retake local governments from the hands of incompetent former slaves. A 1965 textbook used in Alabama public schools taught another key point of the lost cause creed—that slavery was a benign institution: “In one respect, the slave was almost always better off than free laborers, white or black, of the same period [because] the slave received the best medical care which the times could offer.”
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Old 03-28-2013, 08:06 AM   #359
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Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts View Post
Exactly! Heh, what do you think Pat? Can we find some common ground here? Let's do away with child tax credits, and every other perk married people get. It's a damned entitlement! It needs to go!
I could meet you somewhere in the middle, I think. I do think that we should continue to encourage people to partner up for the purpose of having kids and raising them in a two parent homes. But I'm sure there are some "perks" of parenthood/marriage that I'd support getting rid of.

The libertarian position that we should just get government out of marriage altogether is appealing to me on a theoretical level, but I think one of the biggest social problems our country has is having so many kids being raised in broken homes and I'd be a little worried that the libertarian approach might exacerbate that problem. I'm open to the idea though.
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Old 03-28-2013, 09:05 AM   #360
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First, your quote on Lincoln is not about slavery, at all. You continue to confuse anti slavery with racism. Lincoln did not become less racist until after he saw blacks preform on the battle ground. Just like he supported Colonization up into his presidency. Just like Henry Clay, a big early influence on his political views.

You are lying about history by posting quotes like that trying to imply that Lincoln was pro slavery. No body should believe your history takes when you go out of your way to distort history for your own political views. You are a hack.

The right to secede is not in the constitution. The word secede is not in the constitution. You are again lying. The majority of the country even during the Civil War did not agree that you could secede. The southern states never held a popular vote to secede. There is nothing constitutional about it. And don't you dare mention Nullification. It doesn't apply, Madison never was in favor of secession. You have no understanding of Nullification.

Habeas Corpus was only suspended in Maryland. (as well as the other charges you bring up) The reason was it was a boarder state. Lincoln could not have D.C. be in the Confederate. Are you aware that a confederate friendly mob attacked a train full of troops in Baltimore and tried to burn rail lines? What do you think would have happened if Maryland seceded? Lincoln, and I am sure your hack history doesn't cover this, also pardoned or released the vast majority of those arrested by state authorities. Hardly anyone spent any time in jail. Lincoln shot people? citation needed.

What other lies are you parroting? Ah yes, Lincoln provoked fort Sumter. What are tying to say with this? You don't want the south to have first shot?(yea your not a hack at all) The fort was running low on supplies. Lincoln sent a ship with food and supplies, not arms. Jefferson didn't have to fire on it.

Invasion of Virginia? During a war? And the problem is?

Books. I have Graduate level studies on this subject. Here is a book list for just one class: America's Civil War; Fiery Trial:Abraham Lincoln and Slavery; Pea Ridge:Civil War Battle in the West; Army at Home:Women and the Civil War on the Northern Home Front; The Civil War in Missouri

I don't need your hack, agenda filled internet fringe history.

You are also wrong on Politically correct history.

http://www.salon.com/2013/03/16/the_...the_civil_war/

Die-hard defenders of some version of the Lost Cause today say that the South has always been the victim of “political correctness” in school textbooks, and that this continues to this day. The truth is just the opposite: for decades, publishers of school textbooks went out of their way not to offend delicate Southern sensibilities in their treatment of the Civil War. One longtime publishing executive told me that when he got into the business in the 1960s, it was common to see two different versions of school history textbooks—one for in the Deep South and one for everywhere else, “and the difference was how you treated the Civil War.” By the mid-twentieth century, even textbooks that did not repeat the UDC party line still tiptoed carefully through the minefield. Take this passage, for example, from a widely used 1943 high school history textbook, which depicts a slave-holding South of stately mansions and benevolent slave owners: “The confederates . . . believed they were fighting for the democratic principle of freedom to manage their own affairs, just as the thirteen colonies had fought in the Revolutionary War.” The same textbook describes the Ku Klux Klan as a group that “sometimes” resorted to violence in its effort to retake local governments from the hands of incompetent former slaves. A 1965 textbook used in Alabama public schools taught another key point of the lost cause creed—that slavery was a benign institution: “In one respect, the slave was almost always better off than free laborers, white or black, of the same period [because] the slave received the best medical care which the times could offer.”
NOPE
Remember, Lincoln told different audiences different things as a politician.
You already, cited you own hack Marxist historian's book before. The fact that you think doing graduate studies makes you the only authority is laughable. If anything it's more likely to be PC and Marxist. The universities are a problem due to the dominance of left-leaning and/or Marxist professors and programs. Marx was an admirer of Lincoln like yourself and Foner. Foner praised Lincoln for denouncing nullification of the Fugitive Slave Act, which propped up slavery, by northern states because he was claimed to support "the rule of law."

FACT: Lincoln governed as a tyrant. No wonder Foner and your ilk praise him.

Anyhow, time to take this to its own thread.
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Last edited by BucEyedPea; 03-28-2013 at 10:25 AM..
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BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.
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