SCOTUS to take on allowing Gays to marry. What say you?

[BigRedChief]

There are two cases(DOMA and Proposition 8) to be heard by the SCOTUS this session.

At the base of the question is do gay Americans have the same rights as heterosexual Americans? And if so, do they need their constitutional rights protected at the federal level.

I've never had an openly gay friend, co-worker or family member. I did coach a little league baseball team. On that team I had a player with two Mom's. The players and the parents accepted the kid of the two Mom's as any other player. The other parents let their kids go over to the two Mom's house for sleepovers etc. It wasn't a factor to consider in the slightest.

I don't have any personal experience to know what rights is actually being denied. However, I believe that for whatever reason they were born that way. It's not a choice. You can't pray it out of them. You can't give them therapy and turn them into heterosexuals. They are what they are naturally and we should just accept them.

IMHO, the government/city/state/society have no right to tell it's citizens what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedroom. some of our citizens who they can and who they can't love. Who they can and can't marry. History will not be kind to the discrimination of gays, with cause. It's time to end this era of gay discrimination.

[FD]

I would rather the court not step into this. I support gay marriage but think it should be done at the polls and in the legislatures.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by mlyonsd

If I read that right you think SCOTUS took up the issue so they can eliminate gay marriage across the board?

Allow gay marriage.

And it was the talking heads thinking allow gay marriage. I don't follow the SCOTUS like a groupie. Thats the talking heads job.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by HonestChieffan

And with a ruling from SCOTUS that will go away? Nothing SCOTUS can do will prevent this discrimination you see in your world

It seems to me that you are saying that only I see discrimination against gays? JFC, do you feel discrimination is happening against gays?

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by FD

I would rather the court not step into this. I support gay marriage but think it should be done at the polls and in the legislatures.

What if DOMA applied to black people? Should the courts let it be?

This is why the courts exist. Because polls and legislatures are not infallible, and they often times move against the Constitution, which the courts defend.

[patteeu]

That OP is a butchered version of this controversy. Virtually no one thinks gays don't deserve all the same rights as every other American. The broad question is whether or not same sex marriage is a right. And to be honest, the question in these cases is even narrower than that.

[FD]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

What if DOMA applied to black people? Should the courts let it be?

That would violate the 14th amendment.

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by FD

I would rather the court not step into this. I support gay marriage but think it should be done at the polls and in the legislatures.

Same.

[HonestChieffan]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

It seems to me that you are saying that only I see discrimination against gays? JFC, do you feel discrimination is happening against gays?

Well, according to the gay community it is. I have no idea other than what I read. It seems the big issue is not allowing them to form a legal union between two people, the issue is they want all the same benefits that come from a marriage. Thats a financial issue it seems related to things like spousal benefits and the like.

Im relegated to the point its going to happen. It doesnt affect me in the least. But it wont stop discrimination from continuing in many other ways.

[mcan]

Originally Posted by HonestChieffan

Yea, you are right. Its the same thing

Clearly not the SAME thing. But the REASON why both exist(ed), well they come from the same place. People in the power/majority group think that the people in the no power/minority group are "lesser" in some way and decide that they don't deserve certain things. In the case of whites and blacks, not so long ago, whites decided that blacks shouldn't have the right to make any decisions or live the life they choose because they weren't good people. In the case of men and women for centuries, men decided women weren't smart or capable enough to have careers or make their own choices, in some countries to choose their own husbands, or pick their own leaders. Right now straight people are doing the same garbage to gay people. They don't think gays' relationships are "good" so they don't want to legitimize them. It's pretty simple, actually.

The truth is, this is all about making lines in the sand about morality, and what makes sense. If you murder someone, society takes away your freedom because you a bad person and don't deserve to live in that society anymore. Some people think that being black, or a woman, or being gay is analogous to committing a crime, and are trying to extend that same long arm of the law into their lives. Now, we all know that being black or a woman isn't a crime... It's time the thinking people in this country stand up for gays as well. There's no place for this discrimination in a land that known as freedom.

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by patteeu

That OP is a butchered version of this controversy. Virtually no one thinks gays don't deserve all the same rights as every other American. The broad question is whether or not same sex marriage is a right. And to be honest, the question in these cases is even narrower than that.

Is same sex marriage a right?

Should two black people have a right to get married to each other?

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

What if DOMA applied to black people? Should the courts let it be?

This is why the courts exist. Because polls and legislatures are not infallible, and they often times move against the Constitution, which the courts defend.

If you would insert the word black, mexican, muslim, senior citzens etc. into some of the statements of posters on here instead of gay/homosexual, I wonder if there opinion would be changed?

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by FD

That would violate the 14th amendment.

9th amendment: just because a right is not in the Constitution does not mean it doesn't exist.

I see absolutely no difference in two gay people wanting to get married, and two black people wanting to get married. Do you?

[TrueFanDave]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Unbelievable.

Why is that funny?

I don't give a shit if gays marry.

I don't care who gets marries.

None if it affects me, therefore, I just don't care.

[mcan]

Originally Posted by patteeu

That OP is a butchered version of this controversy. Virtually no one thinks gays don't deserve all the same rights as every other American. The broad question is whether or not same sex marriage is a right. And to be honest, the question in these cases is even narrower than that.

This is a fundamental misunderstanding of what "rights" are. Horrible, horrible misunderstanding.

A "right" is NOT something that the state ALLOWS you to do.


A "right" is something that the state CAN NOT STOP you from doing.

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

My only problem with that is the civil rights issue. We didn't allow the southern states to enslave human beings, discriminate against black in housing, voting laws etc.

The states don't get to decide the freedom of individuals. The federal government and the SCOTUS decide what freedoms the constitution allows its citizens.

We don't allow states to enslave gays or deny them their ability to vote either.

Some states prevent both heterosexuals and homosexuals from entering into same sex marriage. If heterosexuals could do it but not homosexuals (or vice versa), then we'd have an equal protection issue.