Home Mail MemberMap Chat (0) Wallpapers
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > The Lounge > D.C.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-22-2012, 09:05 AM  
Direckshun Direckshun is online now
Black for Palestine
 
Direckshun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springpatch
Casino cash: $15249
Raising the retirement age of social security.

A really enlightening piece outlining some solid rebuttals to one of the more popular ideas for reforming social security.

It is often remarked in the media and by the wealthy that the retirement age should be raised. But that's because those who are making the arguments likely love their jobs, are living substantially longer than they were in the 1980s, and make enough bank so that they don't need to rely on social security when they retire.

None of that is true for the lower economic half of society. The lower economic half largely don't work jobs they want to work at forever, they aren't living that much longer than they were in 1980s, and of course will rely on social security when they retire.

The 1980s are worth noting because they were the latest overhaul of social security. People often argue that social security wasn't designed in the 1930s to deal with the 21st century. No... but it was redesigned in the 1980s. Since then, the rich have gotten richer while everybody else has essentially stayed the same.

Another relatively popular solution for social security solution, one that would make the program solvent for the rest of our and our children's lifetimes, would be to simply apply social security taxation to those making over $110,000.

But, of course, the 1% doesn't like that. So they prefer the methodology that hurts the bottom 50% instead.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...etirement-age/

Why rich guys want to raise the retirement age
Posted by Ezra Klein
on November 21, 2012 at 2:14 pm

If youíre the CEO of Goldman Sachs Ė if you have a job that you love, a job that makes you so much money you can literally build a Scrooge McDuck room where you can swim through a pile of gold coins wearing only a topcoat Ė then you should perhaps think twice before saying this:

Quote:
You can look at the history of these things, and Social Security wasnít devised to be a system that supported you for a 30-year retirement after a 25-year career. Ö So there will be things that, you know, the retirement age has to be changed. Maybe some of the benefits have to be affected, maybe some of the inflation adjustments have to be revised. But in general, entitlements have to be slowed down and contained.
Thatís Lloyd Blankfein, CEO of Goldman Sachs, talking to CBS. And heís not saying anything that people, particularly wealthier people with desk jobs, donít say all the time in Washington and New York. So I donít want to just pick on him. But the cavalier endorsement of raising the retirement age by people who really love their jobs, who make so much money they barely pay Social Security taxes, and who are, actuarially speaking, are ensured a long and healthy life, drives me nuts.

If you want talk about cutting Social Security, talk about cutting it. Itís a reasonable point of view. Youíre allowed to hold it.

But ďcuttingĒ Social Security is unpopular and people donít like to talk about it. So folks who want to cut the program have instead settled on an elliptical argument about life expectancy. Social Security, they say, was designed at a time when Americans didnít live quite so long. And so raising the retirement age isnít a ďcut.Ē Itís a restoration of the programís original purpose. It doesnít hurt anything or anyone.

The first point worth making here is that the countryís economy has grown 15-fold since Social Security was passed into law. One of the things the richest society the world has ever known can buy is a decent retirement for people who donít have jobs they love and who donít want to work forever.

The second point worth making is that Social Security was overhauled in the í80s. So the promises the program is carrying out today were made then. And, since the í80s, the idea that weíve all gained so many years of life simply isnít true.

Some of us have gained in life expectancy, of course. As you can see on this graph, since 1977, the life expectancy of male workers retiring at age 65 has risen six years in the top half of the income distribution. But if youíre in the bottom half of the income distribution? Then youíve only gained 1.3 years.



If youíre wealthy, you do have many more years to enjoy Social Security. But if youíre not, you donít. And so making it so people who arenít wealthy have to wait longer to use Social Security is a particularly cruel and regressive way to cut the program.

Itís also a cut thatís particularly tough on people who spend their lives in jobs they donít enjoy.

You know what age most people actually begin taking Social Security? Sixty-five is what most people think. Thatís the lawís standard retirement age. But thatís wrong. Most people begin taking Social Security benefits at 62, which is as early as the law allows you to take them.

When they do that, it means they get smaller benefits over their lifetime. We penalize for taking it early. But they do it anyway. They do it because they donít want to spend their whole lives at that job. Unlike many folks in finance or in the U.S. Senate or writing for the nationís op-ed pages, they donít want to work till they drop.

As Peter Diamond, the Nobel laureate economist and Social Security expert, told Dylan Matthews:

Quote:
What do we know about the people who retire at 62? On average, shorter life expectancy and lower earnings than people retiring at later ages. If anyone stood up and said, ďInstead of doing uniform across the board cuts, letís make them a little worse for people who have shorter life expectancies and lower earnings,Ē theyíd be laughed at. Anything that reduces benefits is going to hurt everybody. Itís going to hit people with short life expectancies, itís going to hit people with high life expectancies. But we should not make it worse for those retiring earliest.
Thatís whatís galling about this easy argument. The people who make it, the pundits and the senators and the CEOs, theyíll never feel it. They donít want to retire at age 65, and they donít have short life expectancies, and theyíre not mainly relying on Social Security for their retirement income. Theyíre bravely advocating a cut theyíll never feel.

But you know what they would feel? Social Security taxes donít apply to income over $110,000. In 2011, Lloyd Blankfeinís total compensation was $16.1 million. That means he paid Social Security taxes on less than 1 percent of his compensation.

If we lifted that cap, if we made all income subject to payroll taxes, the Congressional Budget Office estimates that it would do three times as much to solve Social Securityís shortfall as raising the retirement age to 70. In fact, it would, in one fell swoop, close Social Securityís solvency gap for the next 75 years. That may or may not be the right way to close Social Securityís shortfall, but somehow, it rarely gets mentioned by the folks who think theyíre being courageous when they talk about raising a retirement age theyíll never notice.

Again, I donít mean to pick on Blankfein here. Heís not saying anything unusual, and heís one of the CEOs whoís pretty straightforward about the fact that his taxes are going to need to go up. But he and all these folks who like to talk about raising the Social Security retirement age as if itís a no-brainer need to think harder about why theyíve settled on the cut to Social Security that will concentrate its pain on people who havenít fully shared in the remarkable increase in life expectancy, who donít make much money and who donít love going to their jobs every day.
Posts: 45,497
Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 09:08 AM   #2
Direckshun Direckshun is online now
Black for Palestine
 
Direckshun's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springpatch
Casino cash: $15249
It should be noted that social security is not a driver of the deficit (Medicare is), and is on pace to remain in the black for at least another twenty years before it even comes close to becoming insolvent.
__________________
Posts: 45,497
Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 09:18 AM   #3
Brainiac Brainiac is offline
Veteran
 
Brainiac's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Lenexa, KS
Casino cash: $7711
Believe it or not, I agree with you on this issue. There's no reason to cap the payroll tax at $110,000 of income. It's an incredibly regressive tax.
Posts: 4,406
Brainiac is too fat/Omaha.Brainiac is too fat/Omaha.Brainiac is too fat/Omaha.Brainiac is too fat/Omaha.Brainiac is too fat/Omaha.Brainiac is too fat/Omaha.Brainiac is too fat/Omaha.Brainiac is too fat/Omaha.Brainiac is too fat/Omaha.Brainiac is too fat/Omaha.Brainiac is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 09:25 AM   #4
cdcox cdcox is offline
www.nfl-forecast.com
 
cdcox's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2000
Casino cash: $14208
Yeah, social security could be fixed in an afternoon if both houses of congress would be sensible. I'd favor keeping the payroll tax income over $110K. Raising the age at which benefits kick in is just going to keep old codgers in the work place longer occupying opportunities for younger workers. Of course if older folks want to keep working and have the skills employers are willing to pay for, they have the freedom to keep working.

Medicare is a much tougher nut to crack.
Posts: 31,974
cdcox has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.cdcox has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.cdcox has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.cdcox has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.cdcox has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.cdcox has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.cdcox has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.cdcox has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.cdcox has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.cdcox has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.cdcox has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 09:30 AM   #5
Direckshun Direckshun is online now
Black for Palestine
 
Direckshun's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springpatch
Casino cash: $15249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainiac View Post
Believe it or not, I agree with you on this issue. There's no reason to cap the payroll tax at $110,000 of income. It's an incredibly regressive tax.
We're totally going to run for office together.

I'm already saving money for our bicycle built for two.
__________________
Posts: 45,497
Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 10:29 AM   #6
go bowe go bowe is offline
bye bye bo...
 
go bowe's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: independence
Casino cash: $6716
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
We're totally going to run for office together.

I'm already saving money for our bicycle built for two.
Posts: 30,084
go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.go bowe 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 10:37 AM   #7
Carlota69 Carlota69 is offline
MVP
 
Carlota69's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Las Vegas
Casino cash: $5005
You know what Pisses me off? These assholes in congress and the senate as well as former Presidents make an average of 200k a year plus kick ass medical benefits after they retire, on our backs. Before we go after the average working mans soc sec and Medicare, why don't we Stop paying these ****ers so much money when they a done working??? I love how they talk about how soc sec and Medicare is hurting us, yet they arent willing to cut their retirement? I say we start there, and then see where we a when it comes to "entitlements" (which we have paid into) for the rest of us.
__________________
Women want someone who can make them laugh and protect them. So basically a Clown Ninja.
Posts: 5,974
Carlota69 is too fat/Omaha.Carlota69 is too fat/Omaha.Carlota69 is too fat/Omaha.Carlota69 is too fat/Omaha.Carlota69 is too fat/Omaha.Carlota69 is too fat/Omaha.Carlota69 is too fat/Omaha.Carlota69 is too fat/Omaha.Carlota69 is too fat/Omaha.Carlota69 is too fat/Omaha.Carlota69 is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 11:10 AM   #8
Brainiac Brainiac is offline
Veteran
 
Brainiac's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Lenexa, KS
Casino cash: $7711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
We're totally going to run for office together.

I'm already saving money for our bicycle built for two.
I could never run for office with someone who always votes a straight ticket. It doesn't matter whether or it's a Democrat or a Republican. That mindset is just foreign to me.

Sorry to disappoint. You might try Cosmo or BRC.
Posts: 4,406
Brainiac is too fat/Omaha.Brainiac is too fat/Omaha.Brainiac is too fat/Omaha.Brainiac is too fat/Omaha.Brainiac is too fat/Omaha.Brainiac is too fat/Omaha.Brainiac is too fat/Omaha.Brainiac is too fat/Omaha.Brainiac is too fat/Omaha.Brainiac is too fat/Omaha.Brainiac is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 12:33 PM   #9
Donger Donger is offline
"Think BOOM!"
 
Donger's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 33.675į N 106.475į W
Casino cash: $2030
VARSITY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainiac View Post
Believe it or not, I agree with you on this issue. There's no reason to cap the payroll tax at $110,000 of income. It's an incredibly regressive tax.
I agree.
__________________
I think the young people enjoy it when I "get down," verbally, don't you?
Posts: 77,543
Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012, 12:47 PM   #10
ROYC75 ROYC75 is offline
Time For Your Wake Up Call !!!
 
ROYC75's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Barn Yard
Casino cash: $5393
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlota69 View Post
You know what Pisses me off? These assholes in congress and the senate as well as former Presidents make an average of 200k a year plus kick ass medical benefits after they retire, on our backs. Before we go after the average working mans soc sec and Medicare, why don't we Stop paying these ****ers so much money when they a done working??? I love how they talk about how soc sec and Medicare is hurting us, yet they arent willing to cut their retirement? I say we start there, and then see where we a when it comes to "entitlements" (which we have paid into) for the rest of us.
Posts: 28,003
ROYC75 wants to die in a aids tree fire.ROYC75 wants to die in a aids tree fire.ROYC75 wants to die in a aids tree fire.ROYC75 wants to die in a aids tree fire.ROYC75 wants to die in a aids tree fire.ROYC75 wants to die in a aids tree fire.ROYC75 wants to die in a aids tree fire.ROYC75 wants to die in a aids tree fire.ROYC75 wants to die in a aids tree fire.ROYC75 wants to die in a aids tree fire.ROYC75 wants to die in a aids tree fire.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012, 02:12 PM   #11
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainiac View Post
Believe it or not, I agree with you on this issue. There's no reason to cap the payroll tax at $110,000 of income. It's an incredibly regressive tax.
There's a huge reason to cap it. SS is supposed to be a self-funding, forced pension program with limited wealth transfer characteristics, not welfare. It's not regressive, it's actually progressive as is. Because you shouldn't look at it as if it's a tax that leads to across the board benefits, it's a tax on the working class that leads to a working class specific benefit. High income earners pay a pittance into the program relative to their income, but they receive a pittance out of it too because the program isn't intended for them.

If we're going to go this route, why have SS at all? Why not just expand our welfare programs, raise income taxes and eliminate payroll taxes?
__________________


"I'll see you guys in New York." ISIS Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi to US military personnel upon his release from US custody at Camp Bucca in Iraq during Obama's first year in office.
Posts: 75,744
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012, 02:15 PM   #12
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlota69 View Post
You know what Pisses me off? These assholes in congress and the senate as well as former Presidents make an average of 200k a year plus kick ass medical benefits after they retire, on our backs. Before we go after the average working mans soc sec and Medicare, why don't we Stop paying these ****ers so much money when they a done working??? I love how they talk about how soc sec and Medicare is hurting us, yet they arent willing to cut their retirement? I say we start there, and then see where we a when it comes to "entitlements" (which we have paid into) for the rest of us.
That's fine and I wouldn't have any problem with doing that, except that after we're done we'll find that we're in exactly the same place (within the rounding error) because it would have such a trivial impact on our fiscal condition.
__________________


"I'll see you guys in New York." ISIS Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi to US military personnel upon his release from US custody at Camp Bucca in Iraq during Obama's first year in office.
Posts: 75,744
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012, 02:26 PM   #13
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
Brainwashed
 
BigRedChief's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Swims with fishes
Casino cash: $15266
VARSITY
Social Security is in fine shape. No crisis for now. Medicare is the entitlement thats got to be reined in.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katipan View Post
A blow job isn't a blow job without pre-cum. What then? Just stop all kissing for the rest of the night or until she brushes her teeth? And that's just one example of transfer, I'm sure I could bore you all with more.

What is it about cum anyways? It comes from a sterile environment. You all have it. It doesn't taste like anything.

YOU PEOPLE PLAY WITH ASSHOLES. Suck face with gingivitis. Marinate in yeast infections.

But boy cum, icky. Girl drenches carpet, story for reddit.
Posts: 44,460
BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.BigRedChief is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012, 02:29 PM   #14
Trivers Trivers is offline
Where's My Diet Coke?
 

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Two Rivers, Wisconsin
Casino cash: $1481
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
There's a huge reason to cap it. SS is supposed to be a self-funding, forced pension program with limited wealth transfer characteristics, not welfare. It's not regressive, it's actually progressive as is. Because you shouldn't look at it as if it's a tax that leads to across the board benefits, it's a tax on the working class that leads to a working class specific benefit. High income earners pay a pittance into the program relative to their income, but they receive a pittance out of it too because the program isn't intended for them.

If we're going to go this route, why have SS at all? Why not just expand our welfare programs, raise income taxes and eliminate payroll taxes?
Wait, you are bringing logic into the discussion. That is not allowed by those that think increasing taxes on everything solves all problems.
Posts: 479
Trivers wants to die in a aids tree fire.Trivers wants to die in a aids tree fire.Trivers wants to die in a aids tree fire.Trivers wants to die in a aids tree fire.Trivers wants to die in a aids tree fire.Trivers wants to die in a aids tree fire.Trivers wants to die in a aids tree fire.Trivers wants to die in a aids tree fire.Trivers wants to die in a aids tree fire.Trivers wants to die in a aids tree fire.Trivers wants to die in a aids tree fire.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012, 02:30 PM   #15
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
Social Security is in fine shape. No crisis. Medicare is the entitlement thats got to be reined in.
Medicare is by far the bigger problem, but SS still needs to be fixed. Increasing the retirement age (over a period of years) and increasing the cap number to account for wage inflation is a better solution than the class warfare solution advocated by this article because it better retains the original character of the program.
__________________


"I'll see you guys in New York." ISIS Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi to US military personnel upon his release from US custody at Camp Bucca in Iraq during Obama's first year in office.
Posts: 75,744
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:51 AM.


This is a test for a client's site.
A new website that shows member-created construction site listings that need fill or have excess fill. Dirt Monkey @ https://DirtMonkey.net
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.