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Old 11-13-2012, 09:54 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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November 29: The UN will vote to recognize Palestine as a "state."

Currently, Palestine is a non-member observer entity in the UN.

The Palestinians have pressed forth to introduce a measure to upgrade them in the UN's eyes to a non-member observer state.

While being upgraded from non-member observer entity to non-member observer state doesn't sound like much, it does provide Palestine an opportunity to actually contribute and perform within the UN.

Most damning, of course, is that it would tell Israel and the United States that their treatment of Palestine is tantamount to suppression of what should be a legitimate, free country. An act bordering on apartheid, which the ICC (run by the UN, which could soon include Palestine) as "inhuman acts committed for the purpose of establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group of persons over any other racial group of persons and systematically oppressing them." I don't regard that as a possibility.

But essentially, this has the ability to be a game changer in favor of two-state negotiations in favor of the Palestinian people, as opposed to the Likud/GOP alliance, which does not want any such two-state solution. All the facts on the ground right now favor Israel, as they expand their land, take more of the Palestinian land, and pretend with each passing year that the '67 borders with agreed-upon land swaps is some crime against Israel's humanity.

The only real arrow in Palestine's quiver is international opinion. And this particular vote in the UN cannot be unilaterally shot down by the United States, so it is sure to be voted on, and sure to be passed by roughly 75% of the UN.

As such, the United States and Israel are, understandably, freaking the **** out. The US is threatening to withdraw funding for much of the UN. Israel is threatening to discard the Oslo Accord, which allowed Palestine self-governance. This could potentially mean apartheid in everything but name.

So things are going to get really, really fascinating.

I ultimately think that Israel and the US' bark is worse than their bite. Obama prides himself on effective diplomacy which cannot happen if he's going to war with the UN. Israel's Netanyahu is far less concerned with international opinion, but doesn't want Israel to end up on the wrong side of the distinction between internationally frowned-upon to internationally despised. Though he may be heading that way anyway.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...rver-state-bid

Palestinians Defy Obama With UN ‘Observer State’ Bid
By Flavia Krause-Jackson
on November 08, 2012

Palestinians defied newly re-elected U.S. President Barack Obama by pushing ahead with a second statehood bid at the United Nations that will raise their profile at the world body and highlight the stagnation of the Mideast peace process.

The Palestinian Authority yesterday circulated a resolution to put the Palestine Liberation Organization on a par with the Holy See, according to a draft that will be put to a vote in the UN’s 193-member General Assembly, where the initiative has enough support to pass and the U.S. lacks veto power.

The latest steps by the Palestinians present Obama with his first foreign-policy challenge three days after he won a second term. A year ago, the Palestinians abandoned an attempt to be recognized as a full member state through the Security Council after Obama indicated the U.S. would use its veto there.

The PLO, which currently is an observer “entity,” is seeking a nonmember “observer state status,” according to the draft obtained by Bloomberg News.

By resurrecting the statehood issue in the General Assembly, the Palestinian leadership is trying to force the White House to pay attention to a moribund Palestinian-Israeli peace process that has dropped off the list of foreign-policy priorities for Obama.

In doing so, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas is jeopardizing relations with Obama, as well as about $500 million in U.S. economic and security aid that members of Congress have threatened to cut if Palestinians proceed at the UN.

Issue Fades

The Palestinians have seen their cause fall into relative obscurity internationally since formal peace talks with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s government were frozen two years ago.

Peace talks stumbled over the issue of Jewish settlements in the West Bank, which Israel captured from Jordan in the 1967 Six-Day War. Abbas said he wouldn’t return to negotiations unless Israel froze all settlement construction in the West Bank and east Jerusalem. Netanyahu has refused to renew a 10-month freeze on construction that expired in 2010.

Abbas will present the resolution in person in New York, according to a UN official speaking on condition of anonymity. A vote is expected to take place by the end of the month, the official said.

Still, the move isn’t without risks.

When the Palestinian Authority was accepted last year into the UN cultural agency UNESCO, best known for its designation of “world heritage” sites, the U.S. response was to cut off funding that provides almost a quarter of the agency’s budget.

The U.S. has said that American law would require similar cutoffs for any UN agency that grants the Palestinians the same status as member states.

International Criminal Court

The upgrade may open the door for Palestinians to join other UN agencies, including the International Criminal Court, where they could ask for Israel to be tried for war crimes.

“Israel’s main worry is the ICC,” Palestinian chief negotiator Saeb Erakat said in an Oct. 24 interview. “They don’t want me to have a sword on their neck.”

The initiative could also jeopardize international aid that accounts for about 14 percent of the Palestinians’ gross domestic product and invite retaliatory measures from Israel.

As for the U.S., the administration’s position hasn’t wavered. The U.S. ambassador to the UN, Susan Rice, has said repeatedly that “unilateral actions,” such as the upgrade of the Palestinians’ UN status, would only derail efforts to restart direct peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians.
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Old 11-16-2012, 10:02 AM   #46
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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What foreign invaders? Jews were already there before Israel was created.
They were also content to live side by side with Arabs. They original indigenous ones called Sephardic Jews, came back when Queen Isabella kicked them out of Spain. They were not political. Then the ones who came due to Herzl's movement were not a big number and a minority. Even they lived side by side on land purchased. Their numbers swelled with what are called white European Ashkenazi Jews after WWII. These are not the same indigenous semite Jews of the area but converts to Judaism. This is part of the problem too, because they're seen as outsiders.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:05 AM   #47
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:09 AM   #48
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The Palestinians should have their own state.

Its just too bad they elect parties like Hamas to represent them.

If the Hamas covenant didn't specifically state:

1) Negotiations are a waste of time

2) There can be no peace with Israel

3) The mandate is to destroy Israel

4 ) The ONLY solution is Jihad, there can be no agreements


If their own mandate didn't have these things, they would not only have their own state but they could've spent the last decades improving their citizen's lives instead of spending their time and energy continuing a futile war against Israel.

I am all for Palestine having its own state but they also need to take responsibility for controlling a state. This includes stopping people from firing rockets into Israel.

If the state is controlled by Hamas, and Hamas is at war with Israel, what is the point? That is pretty much why there isn't a state right now....It all comes back to the 1988 Charter which they are not able/willing to part with.

God help them (and us).
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:44 PM   #49
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Screw Palestine, IMHO, there is no Palestine anymore. They have had their chances for so long now since 1948 it's reprehensible to think they should have a state after the death and destruction by those raghead Arabs.

Tell them to go back to Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq, they treated them so well during the years they occupied the WB and the Gaza. Stupid idiots couldn't even see things then that they were screwed, but yet they still want to back them for a fight they do not deserve to have.

Here is the deal, When you are given your state, and you are not happy because you want the whole damn pie, you stage war and announce death to Israel, you get what you get. Idiocy!
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:03 PM   #50
Pawnmower Pawnmower is offline
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Originally Posted by ROYC75 View Post
Screw Palestine, IMHO, there is no Palestine anymore. They have had their chances for so long now since 1948 it's reprehensible to think they should have a state after the death and destruction by those raghead Arabs.
Well, it isn't really that simple....I mean I do see an argument for what you are saying...AND The reason they do not have a state now is quite simply because the Palestinian people, by and large, refuse to acknowledge Israel and refuse to negotiate with Israel and see Jihad / destruction of Israel as the only solution.

However, the Palestinians have as much of a right to a state as Israel according to the mandate that created Israel.

I believe it would be better to grant them their wish, because as it is now they have ZERO responsibility. Think about it....who gets the blame for the rockets and bombs and martyrs that Palestinians send at Israel?

1) Israel (for not allowing Paelstine a state)

and

2) Hamas and other terrorist organizations (who are actually elected representatives of Palestinians.

The PEOPLE of Paelstine take zero blame in the media and take zero responsibility.

Therefore, we might as well give them a state . Why? That way when the bombs and missiles continue (and they WILL) there will be NO ONE ELSE TO BLAME other than the Palestinians themselves.

Simply put, they need to put up or shut up. They need to take responsibility for their people and as a whole acknowledge that Israel exists and negotiate a peace. They need to abandon the Hamas covenant of 1988. If they continue to elect a government bent on war and with 'zero negotiation' as a platform, then that would be their choice.

If they get a state and continue to launch missiles (which I believe they will) there will be no one else but them.

This logic is similar to why we have to stop meddling in Egypt, Libya, Syria, Lebanon, Tunisia etc....

Let the people determine their fate. If they want war STILL after gaining their freedom, then let them have it and they won't be able to blame anyone but themselves.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:17 PM   #51
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by ROYC75 View Post
Screw Palestine, IMHO, there is no Palestine anymore.
Did you get that idea from reading Joseph Farah at WND?

Quote:
They have had their chances for so long now since 1948 it's reprehensible to think they should have a state after the death and destruction by those raghead Arabs.

Tell them to go back to Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq, they treated them so well during the years they occupied the WB and the Gaza. Stupid idiots couldn't even see things then that they were screwed, but yet they still want to back them for a fight they do not deserve to have.

Here is the deal, When you are given your state, and you are not happy because you want the whole damn pie, you stage war and announce death to Israel, you get what you get. Idiocy!
It's really none of our business. We don't rule the area.
I don't think Israel is always innocent either and we get favorable press for one side.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:32 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by ROYC75 View Post
Screw Palestine, IMHO, there is no Palestine anymore. They have had their chances for so long now since 1948 it's reprehensible to think they should have a state after the death and destruction by those raghead Arabs.

Tell them to go back to Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq, they treated them so well during the years they occupied the WB and the Gaza. Stupid idiots couldn't even see things then that they were screwed, but yet they still want to back them for a fight they do not deserve to have.

Here is the deal, When you are given your state, and you are not happy because you want the whole damn pie, you stage war and announce death to Israel, you get what you get. Idiocy!
Bite your tongue, Raghead? It's quite conceivable Jesus wore such, check yourself.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:41 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by KILLER_CLOWN View Post
Bite your tongue, Raghead? It's quite conceivable Jesus wore such, check yourself.
raghead is an ethnic slur in common parlance...

pretty overt prejudice there...
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Old 11-16-2012, 03:40 PM   #54
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I'm new to this and admittedly not very knowledgeable on the facts and history but I'm trying to change that.
My thinking is with the British / French mandate, the UN Partition, The 6 day war that was initiated by Israel that it was a Zionist invasion and occupation of Palestinians territory.

I don't know the history prior to WW1, but do understand that the area was part of the Ottoman Empire for 600+ years prior.

I don't know what justification Israel has for claiming this territory as their own.
Do you know why Israel acted pre-emptively in 1967?
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Old 11-16-2012, 03:44 PM   #55
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However, there is NO real evidence of Iran being in violation of the IAEA.
Wrong, as you know. Iran is in non-compliance with NPT safeguards, namely the requirement that they prove their nuclear activities are peaceful.

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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
But I don't want to turn this thread topic into a major hijack and then bring Big Dick in to waste my time rehashing the same arguments and documents all over again via his rhetorical questions.
Well, when you blatantly and intentionally lie, sure, I'm going to correct you.
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Old 11-16-2012, 03:56 PM   #56
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Rockets launched at Israel from Sinai

Terrorists in the Sinai Peninsula launched rockets into Israel Friday night.

The rockets fell near an Israeli village on the southern border, causing some damage, but no injuries.

Read the full story: http://www.jpost.com/Headlines/Article.aspx?id=292214


Arab Spring ---- -----!
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Old 11-16-2012, 04:01 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan View Post
Breaking News


Rockets launched at Israel from Sinai

Terrorists in the Sinai Peninsula launched rockets into Israel Friday night.

The rockets fell near an Israeli village on the southern border, causing some damage, but no injuries.

Read the full story: http://www.jpost.com/Headlines/Article.aspx?id=292214


Arab Spring ---- -----!
Yeah this isn't good. I'm nervous about this one popping off into something really big that drags the real countries into it.
That said, every Hamas member and Hamas supporter that dies is one less problem for the world.
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:31 PM   #58
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I will and thank you. And I drew the same conclusion from the UN partition.
It's on TV right now on TCM.

http://www.tcm.com/tcmdb/title/4455/...-synopsis.html
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:48 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
The Palestinians should have their own state.

Its just too bad they elect parties like Hamas to represent them.

If the Hamas covenant didn't specifically state:

1) Negotiations are a waste of time

2) There can be no peace with Israel

3) The mandate is to destroy Israel

4 ) The ONLY solution is Jihad, there can be no agreements


If their own mandate didn't have these things, they would not only have their own state but they could've spent the last decades improving their citizen's lives instead of spending their time and energy continuing a futile war against Israel.

I am all for Palestine having its own state but they also need to take responsibility for controlling a state. This includes stopping people from firing rockets into Israel.

If the state is controlled by Hamas, and Hamas is at war with Israel, what is the point? That is pretty much why there isn't a state right now....It all comes back to the 1988 Charter which they are not able/willing to part with.

God help them (and us).
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:55 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Dylan View Post
Breaking News


Rockets launched at Israel from Sinai

Terrorists in the Sinai Peninsula launched rockets into Israel Friday night.

The rockets fell near an Israeli village on the southern border, causing some damage, but no injuries.

Read the full story: http://www.jpost.com/Headlines/Article.aspx?id=292214


Arab Spring ---- -----!
Egypt winks at the subterfuge, fire the rockets from our lands.... say goodbye to the longstanding accord willed into place by the much maligned Jimmy Carter.

Morsi supports terror, as long as its against israel... goodbye Sadat... the lunatics have taken over.
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