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Old 11-13-2012, 10:54 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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November 29: The UN will vote to recognize Palestine as a "state."

Currently, Palestine is a non-member observer entity in the UN.

The Palestinians have pressed forth to introduce a measure to upgrade them in the UN's eyes to a non-member observer state.

While being upgraded from non-member observer entity to non-member observer state doesn't sound like much, it does provide Palestine an opportunity to actually contribute and perform within the UN.

Most damning, of course, is that it would tell Israel and the United States that their treatment of Palestine is tantamount to suppression of what should be a legitimate, free country. An act bordering on apartheid, which the ICC (run by the UN, which could soon include Palestine) as "inhuman acts committed for the purpose of establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group of persons over any other racial group of persons and systematically oppressing them." I don't regard that as a possibility.

But essentially, this has the ability to be a game changer in favor of two-state negotiations in favor of the Palestinian people, as opposed to the Likud/GOP alliance, which does not want any such two-state solution. All the facts on the ground right now favor Israel, as they expand their land, take more of the Palestinian land, and pretend with each passing year that the '67 borders with agreed-upon land swaps is some crime against Israel's humanity.

The only real arrow in Palestine's quiver is international opinion. And this particular vote in the UN cannot be unilaterally shot down by the United States, so it is sure to be voted on, and sure to be passed by roughly 75% of the UN.

As such, the United States and Israel are, understandably, freaking the **** out. The US is threatening to withdraw funding for much of the UN. Israel is threatening to discard the Oslo Accord, which allowed Palestine self-governance. This could potentially mean apartheid in everything but name.

So things are going to get really, really fascinating.

I ultimately think that Israel and the US' bark is worse than their bite. Obama prides himself on effective diplomacy which cannot happen if he's going to war with the UN. Israel's Netanyahu is far less concerned with international opinion, but doesn't want Israel to end up on the wrong side of the distinction between internationally frowned-upon to internationally despised. Though he may be heading that way anyway.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...rver-state-bid

Palestinians Defy Obama With UN ‘Observer State’ Bid
By Flavia Krause-Jackson
on November 08, 2012

Palestinians defied newly re-elected U.S. President Barack Obama by pushing ahead with a second statehood bid at the United Nations that will raise their profile at the world body and highlight the stagnation of the Mideast peace process.

The Palestinian Authority yesterday circulated a resolution to put the Palestine Liberation Organization on a par with the Holy See, according to a draft that will be put to a vote in the UN’s 193-member General Assembly, where the initiative has enough support to pass and the U.S. lacks veto power.

The latest steps by the Palestinians present Obama with his first foreign-policy challenge three days after he won a second term. A year ago, the Palestinians abandoned an attempt to be recognized as a full member state through the Security Council after Obama indicated the U.S. would use its veto there.

The PLO, which currently is an observer “entity,” is seeking a nonmember “observer state status,” according to the draft obtained by Bloomberg News.

By resurrecting the statehood issue in the General Assembly, the Palestinian leadership is trying to force the White House to pay attention to a moribund Palestinian-Israeli peace process that has dropped off the list of foreign-policy priorities for Obama.

In doing so, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas is jeopardizing relations with Obama, as well as about $500 million in U.S. economic and security aid that members of Congress have threatened to cut if Palestinians proceed at the UN.

Issue Fades

The Palestinians have seen their cause fall into relative obscurity internationally since formal peace talks with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s government were frozen two years ago.

Peace talks stumbled over the issue of Jewish settlements in the West Bank, which Israel captured from Jordan in the 1967 Six-Day War. Abbas said he wouldn’t return to negotiations unless Israel froze all settlement construction in the West Bank and east Jerusalem. Netanyahu has refused to renew a 10-month freeze on construction that expired in 2010.

Abbas will present the resolution in person in New York, according to a UN official speaking on condition of anonymity. A vote is expected to take place by the end of the month, the official said.

Still, the move isn’t without risks.

When the Palestinian Authority was accepted last year into the UN cultural agency UNESCO, best known for its designation of “world heritage” sites, the U.S. response was to cut off funding that provides almost a quarter of the agency’s budget.

The U.S. has said that American law would require similar cutoffs for any UN agency that grants the Palestinians the same status as member states.

International Criminal Court

The upgrade may open the door for Palestinians to join other UN agencies, including the International Criminal Court, where they could ask for Israel to be tried for war crimes.

“Israel’s main worry is the ICC,” Palestinian chief negotiator Saeb Erakat said in an Oct. 24 interview. “They don’t want me to have a sword on their neck.”

The initiative could also jeopardize international aid that accounts for about 14 percent of the Palestinians’ gross domestic product and invite retaliatory measures from Israel.

As for the U.S., the administration’s position hasn’t wavered. The U.S. ambassador to the UN, Susan Rice, has said repeatedly that “unilateral actions,” such as the upgrade of the Palestinians’ UN status, would only derail efforts to restart direct peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians.
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:27 PM   #16
stevieray stevieray is offline
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Not gonna end well. Hopefully Israel sends a very strong message
I have no doubt.
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:05 PM   #17
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Hopefully, every last supporter of Hamas is executed.


"Hamas, meanwhile, warned it would strike deeper inside Israel with Iranian-made Fajr-5 rockets, acknowledging for the first time it has such longer-range weapons capable of hitting targets some 47 miles (75 kilometers) away. Tel Aviv is 40 miles (70 kilometers) from Gaza.

By nightfall Thursday, Hamas said it had fired more than 350 rockets into Israel. Israel, which estimates Gaza militants have as many as 12,000 rockets, said some 220 rockets struck the Jewish state and another 130 were intercepted by an anti-missile shield."


http://news.yahoo.com/hamas-targets-...234140732.html
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:09 PM   #18
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We should give them our place in the UN. Freaking joke.
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:11 PM   #19
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Then they'll take all of our guns away the next day, right?
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:19 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
The UN was a big cause in this war back in the day.

Regardless, I still have to wonder why they think they should be elected to determine who is state or not.

Are you referring to the partition?
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:26 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Israel is calling up it's reservists. I think palestinians are about to be recognized in a way they probably don't want but definitely deserve.

I would have agreed with this up until recently, I've since one a 180.
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:39 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by LOCOChief View Post
I would have agreed with this up until recently, I've since one a 180.
Talk to me. What's turned you around?
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:16 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Talk to me. What's turned you around?
I'm new to this and admittedly not very knowledgeable on the facts and history but I'm trying to change that.
My thinking is with the British / French mandate, the UN Partition, The 6 day war that was initiated by Israel that it was a Zionist invasion and occupation of Palestinians territory.

I don't know the history prior to WW1, but do understand that the area was part of the Ottoman Empire for 600+ years prior.

I don't know what justification Israel has for claiming this territory as their own.
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:22 AM   #24
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The amount of ****s given
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:33 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by LOCOChief View Post
I'm new to this and admittedly not very knowledgeable on the facts and history but I'm trying to change that.
My thinking is with the British / French mandate, the UN Partition, The 6 day war that was initiated by Israel that it was a Zionist invasion and occupation of Palestinians territory.

I don't know the history prior to WW1, but do understand that the area was part of the Ottoman Empire for 600+ years prior.

I don't know what justification Israel has for claiming this territory as their own.
Well, first of all, when I say the palestinians deserve the beatdown they're about to get, I'm mainly talking about the militants who continue to lob rockets into Israel from Gaza even after Israel has withdrawn both it's troops and it's settlements. I'm also talking about other palestinians in Gaza who support the militants or allow them to continue to run the show.

WRT to the Six Day War, Israel struck first, but they did so only because Egypt had taken several steps indicating that an attack was imminent. Among Egypt's actions:

Quote:
  • announced a policy of hostility to Israel
  • put its military forces on maximum alert
  • expelled the UN Emergency force from the Sinai border area
  • strengthened its forces on the border with Israel
  • announced the closure of the Straits of Tiran to Israeli ships
  • formed mutual support treaties with Iraq, Jordan and Syria
I don't know whether the creation of Israel was a mistake or not. But like with the American Indian and US territory, it's ancient history now and Israel is a fact of life. 60+ year old grievances don't justify the terrorism and rocket attacks that palestinians continue to launch against Israel. Israelis would like nothing better than to live in peace next to their Arab neighbors. And if those Arab neighbors are unwilling to give the palestinian population a home, Israel has shown that they are willing to live peacefully next to a palestinian state. Unfortunately, there are a lot of palestinians who don't have peace on their minds.
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:35 AM   #26
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I’m not anti Semitic and certainly not pro Palestinian (no dog in the hunt) but if I had a foreign occupant force in my backyard I’d be taking shots at them. If I understood what rights the Jewish people feel they have to this land I might think differently. I haven’t found the answer to this so maybe someone can enlighten me.
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:35 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOCOChief View Post
I'm new to this and admittedly not very knowledgeable on the facts and history but I'm trying to change that.
My thinking is with the British / French mandate, the UN Partition, The 6 day war that was initiated by Israel that it was a Zionist invasion and occupation of Palestinians territory.

I don't know the history prior to WW1, but do understand that the area was part of the Ottoman Empire for 600+ years prior.

I don't know what justification Israel has for claiming this territory as their own.
Read The Thousand Year War. It's written more for a young high-schooler but it still has great information and is not a tome. It will fill in information you've never heard. You can get it cheap used too.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Thousand-Y.../dp/0942617320

Also can read about Lawrence of Arabia. If you don't have much time, there's a decent summary on the PBS site. Section on Emerging Middle East is decent.

http://www.pbs.org/lawrenceofarabia/

You can use that in conjunction with watching the old movie which just makes events real. It at least shows the betrayal by the British to the Arabs which T.E. Lawrence witnessed because he worked for British intel and fought with the Arabs. It's actually a great flick.

Then watch the movie "Exodus" to see it from the Jewish side, which shows how they were friends with Arabs and how the UN partition divides them.

Remember the UN was spawned by the US originally. It replaced progressive Wilson's League of Nations.
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:36 AM   #28
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There is no Palestine anymore, only the fighting ragheads that think they should go back in time and re-create it.
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:37 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by ROYC75 View Post
There is no Palestine anymore, only the fighting ragheads that think they should go back in time and re-create it.
Not if the UN has its way.
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:38 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Well, first of all, when I say the palestinians deserve the beatdown they're about to get, I'm mainly talking about the militants who continue to lob rockets into Israel from Gaza even after Israel has withdrawn both it's troops and it's settlements. I'm also talking about other palestinians in Gaza who support the militants or allow them to continue to run the show.

WRT to the Six Day War, Israel struck first, but they did so only because Egypt had taken several steps indicating that an attack was imminent. Among Egypt's actions:



I don't know whether the creation of Israel was a mistake or not. But like with the American Indian and US territory, it's ancient history now and Israel is a fact of life. 60+ year old grievances don't justify the terrorism and rocket attacks that palestinians continue to launch against Israel. Israelis would like nothing better than to live in peace next to their Arab neighbors. And if those Arab neighbors are unwilling to give the palestinian population a home, Israel has shown that they are willing to live peacefully next to a palestinian state. Unfortunately, there are a lot of palestinians who don't have peace on their minds.

Bingo ...... well put, I didn't want to take the time to post all the crap about Palestine or Israel.
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