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Old 11-13-2012, 09:54 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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November 29: The UN will vote to recognize Palestine as a "state."

Currently, Palestine is a non-member observer entity in the UN.

The Palestinians have pressed forth to introduce a measure to upgrade them in the UN's eyes to a non-member observer state.

While being upgraded from non-member observer entity to non-member observer state doesn't sound like much, it does provide Palestine an opportunity to actually contribute and perform within the UN.

Most damning, of course, is that it would tell Israel and the United States that their treatment of Palestine is tantamount to suppression of what should be a legitimate, free country. An act bordering on apartheid, which the ICC (run by the UN, which could soon include Palestine) as "inhuman acts committed for the purpose of establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group of persons over any other racial group of persons and systematically oppressing them." I don't regard that as a possibility.

But essentially, this has the ability to be a game changer in favor of two-state negotiations in favor of the Palestinian people, as opposed to the Likud/GOP alliance, which does not want any such two-state solution. All the facts on the ground right now favor Israel, as they expand their land, take more of the Palestinian land, and pretend with each passing year that the '67 borders with agreed-upon land swaps is some crime against Israel's humanity.

The only real arrow in Palestine's quiver is international opinion. And this particular vote in the UN cannot be unilaterally shot down by the United States, so it is sure to be voted on, and sure to be passed by roughly 75% of the UN.

As such, the United States and Israel are, understandably, freaking the **** out. The US is threatening to withdraw funding for much of the UN. Israel is threatening to discard the Oslo Accord, which allowed Palestine self-governance. This could potentially mean apartheid in everything but name.

So things are going to get really, really fascinating.

I ultimately think that Israel and the US' bark is worse than their bite. Obama prides himself on effective diplomacy which cannot happen if he's going to war with the UN. Israel's Netanyahu is far less concerned with international opinion, but doesn't want Israel to end up on the wrong side of the distinction between internationally frowned-upon to internationally despised. Though he may be heading that way anyway.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...rver-state-bid

Palestinians Defy Obama With UN ‘Observer State’ Bid
By Flavia Krause-Jackson
on November 08, 2012

Palestinians defied newly re-elected U.S. President Barack Obama by pushing ahead with a second statehood bid at the United Nations that will raise their profile at the world body and highlight the stagnation of the Mideast peace process.

The Palestinian Authority yesterday circulated a resolution to put the Palestine Liberation Organization on a par with the Holy See, according to a draft that will be put to a vote in the UN’s 193-member General Assembly, where the initiative has enough support to pass and the U.S. lacks veto power.

The latest steps by the Palestinians present Obama with his first foreign-policy challenge three days after he won a second term. A year ago, the Palestinians abandoned an attempt to be recognized as a full member state through the Security Council after Obama indicated the U.S. would use its veto there.

The PLO, which currently is an observer “entity,” is seeking a nonmember “observer state status,” according to the draft obtained by Bloomberg News.

By resurrecting the statehood issue in the General Assembly, the Palestinian leadership is trying to force the White House to pay attention to a moribund Palestinian-Israeli peace process that has dropped off the list of foreign-policy priorities for Obama.

In doing so, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas is jeopardizing relations with Obama, as well as about $500 million in U.S. economic and security aid that members of Congress have threatened to cut if Palestinians proceed at the UN.

Issue Fades

The Palestinians have seen their cause fall into relative obscurity internationally since formal peace talks with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s government were frozen two years ago.

Peace talks stumbled over the issue of Jewish settlements in the West Bank, which Israel captured from Jordan in the 1967 Six-Day War. Abbas said he wouldn’t return to negotiations unless Israel froze all settlement construction in the West Bank and east Jerusalem. Netanyahu has refused to renew a 10-month freeze on construction that expired in 2010.

Abbas will present the resolution in person in New York, according to a UN official speaking on condition of anonymity. A vote is expected to take place by the end of the month, the official said.

Still, the move isn’t without risks.

When the Palestinian Authority was accepted last year into the UN cultural agency UNESCO, best known for its designation of “world heritage” sites, the U.S. response was to cut off funding that provides almost a quarter of the agency’s budget.

The U.S. has said that American law would require similar cutoffs for any UN agency that grants the Palestinians the same status as member states.

International Criminal Court

The upgrade may open the door for Palestinians to join other UN agencies, including the International Criminal Court, where they could ask for Israel to be tried for war crimes.

“Israel’s main worry is the ICC,” Palestinian chief negotiator Saeb Erakat said in an Oct. 24 interview. “They don’t want me to have a sword on their neck.”

The initiative could also jeopardize international aid that accounts for about 14 percent of the Palestinians’ gross domestic product and invite retaliatory measures from Israel.

As for the U.S., the administration’s position hasn’t wavered. The U.S. ambassador to the UN, Susan Rice, has said repeatedly that “unilateral actions,” such as the upgrade of the Palestinians’ UN status, would only derail efforts to restart direct peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians.
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:11 PM   #196
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Never forget, the media is not interested in the truth, they are interested in telling a story. Stay strong.
The media here is not anti-Israel.
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:18 PM   #197
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
The media here is not anti-Israel.
Really?
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:31 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
The media here is not anti-Israel.

The vioces in your head told you that. Of course they probably told you that you're not either.
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:35 PM   #199
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Really?
Do you think Fox News is anti-Israel?
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:37 PM   #200
Nafman87 Nafman87 is offline
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Do you think Fox News is anti-Israel?
No. Fox News is not. CNN BBC they are definitely
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:39 PM   #201
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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I don't define “anti-Israel” as hostility merely to a particular Israeli policy or leader, but to Israel itself. That's what it means. I see little evidence for the the latter, than the former..

Tell me why some American Jews here don't always take the side of Israel on certain policies or leaders?
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:39 PM
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:41 PM   #202
RedNeckRaider RedNeckRaider is offline
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Do you think Fox News is anti-Israel?
No FOX news (using the term news loosely) is anti reality~
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:45 PM   #203
Nafman87 Nafman87 is offline
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Do you think Fox News is anti-Israel?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I don't define “anti-Israel” as hostility merely to a particular Israeli policy or leader, but to Israel itself. That's what it means. I see little evidence for the the latter, than the former..

Tell me why some American Jews here don't always take the side of Israel on certain policies or leaders?
Because American Jews watch the same news that you do, and don't get the full truth. I have seen many anerican Jews who have never been to Israel not take Israel's side, then they come on a visit for the first time and see the truth.
I recommend u do the same. Come to Israel, it is a beautiful country.
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:49 PM   #204
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Because American Jews watch the same news that you do, and don't get the full truth. I have seen many anerican Jews who have never been to Israel not take Israel's side, then they come on a visit for the first time and see the truth.
I recommend u do the same. Come to Israel, it is a beautiful country.
To know the truth requires knowing the whole history—including before WWII.
But I don't watch our msm much.

Love to go, but not in the current environment. Been to Egypt though. But I do have liberal Jewish friends who have been there ( who have criticized it at times) and work with two sometimes, who are from there.


BTW, did you see the controversial tweet by Murdoch:

“Why Is Jewish owned press so consistently anti-Israel in every crisis?”
http://www.truthdig.com/eartothegrou...roversy_20121/
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:53 PM   #205
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Oh, and as far as I've heard, Israelis argue, fight and disagree on their own govt regularly.
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:57 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
So you've turned a blind eye to settlement expansion.

Well, we've all got our ways of coping with cognitive dissonance.



Not necessarily.

Israel doesn't need the Palestinians to recognize their existence for them to exist.

Palestine needs Israel to recognize their existence for them to actually exist.

That's the difference.



Doesn't change the fact that the responses are legitimately viewed as disproportional.



Hamas doesn't want peace with Israel. A two-state solution means they end up out of power eventually.

A constant state of conflict is needed to keep them in power.
Direckshun is a supporter of the Hamas terrorists. Big surprise.
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:59 PM   #207
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Some of us have at least a remedial appreciation of your situation. We apologize for the Direckshuns among us. Good luck to you and all the other peace seekers in the area and may you and yours remain safe.
This^
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:59 PM   #208
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Oh, and as far as I've heard, Israelis argue, fight and disagree on their own govt regularly.
No way!
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:00 PM   #209
Nafman87 Nafman87 is offline
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Oh, and as far as I've heard, Israelis argue, fight and disagree on their own govt regularly.
Ya it's called democracy
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Old 11-19-2012, 03:00 PM   #210
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Ya it's called democracy
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