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Old 11-13-2012, 09:54 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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November 29: The UN will vote to recognize Palestine as a "state."

Currently, Palestine is a non-member observer entity in the UN.

The Palestinians have pressed forth to introduce a measure to upgrade them in the UN's eyes to a non-member observer state.

While being upgraded from non-member observer entity to non-member observer state doesn't sound like much, it does provide Palestine an opportunity to actually contribute and perform within the UN.

Most damning, of course, is that it would tell Israel and the United States that their treatment of Palestine is tantamount to suppression of what should be a legitimate, free country. An act bordering on apartheid, which the ICC (run by the UN, which could soon include Palestine) as "inhuman acts committed for the purpose of establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group of persons over any other racial group of persons and systematically oppressing them." I don't regard that as a possibility.

But essentially, this has the ability to be a game changer in favor of two-state negotiations in favor of the Palestinian people, as opposed to the Likud/GOP alliance, which does not want any such two-state solution. All the facts on the ground right now favor Israel, as they expand their land, take more of the Palestinian land, and pretend with each passing year that the '67 borders with agreed-upon land swaps is some crime against Israel's humanity.

The only real arrow in Palestine's quiver is international opinion. And this particular vote in the UN cannot be unilaterally shot down by the United States, so it is sure to be voted on, and sure to be passed by roughly 75% of the UN.

As such, the United States and Israel are, understandably, freaking the **** out. The US is threatening to withdraw funding for much of the UN. Israel is threatening to discard the Oslo Accord, which allowed Palestine self-governance. This could potentially mean apartheid in everything but name.

So things are going to get really, really fascinating.

I ultimately think that Israel and the US' bark is worse than their bite. Obama prides himself on effective diplomacy which cannot happen if he's going to war with the UN. Israel's Netanyahu is far less concerned with international opinion, but doesn't want Israel to end up on the wrong side of the distinction between internationally frowned-upon to internationally despised. Though he may be heading that way anyway.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...rver-state-bid

Palestinians Defy Obama With UN ‘Observer State’ Bid
By Flavia Krause-Jackson
on November 08, 2012

Palestinians defied newly re-elected U.S. President Barack Obama by pushing ahead with a second statehood bid at the United Nations that will raise their profile at the world body and highlight the stagnation of the Mideast peace process.

The Palestinian Authority yesterday circulated a resolution to put the Palestine Liberation Organization on a par with the Holy See, according to a draft that will be put to a vote in the UN’s 193-member General Assembly, where the initiative has enough support to pass and the U.S. lacks veto power.

The latest steps by the Palestinians present Obama with his first foreign-policy challenge three days after he won a second term. A year ago, the Palestinians abandoned an attempt to be recognized as a full member state through the Security Council after Obama indicated the U.S. would use its veto there.

The PLO, which currently is an observer “entity,” is seeking a nonmember “observer state status,” according to the draft obtained by Bloomberg News.

By resurrecting the statehood issue in the General Assembly, the Palestinian leadership is trying to force the White House to pay attention to a moribund Palestinian-Israeli peace process that has dropped off the list of foreign-policy priorities for Obama.

In doing so, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas is jeopardizing relations with Obama, as well as about $500 million in U.S. economic and security aid that members of Congress have threatened to cut if Palestinians proceed at the UN.

Issue Fades

The Palestinians have seen their cause fall into relative obscurity internationally since formal peace talks with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s government were frozen two years ago.

Peace talks stumbled over the issue of Jewish settlements in the West Bank, which Israel captured from Jordan in the 1967 Six-Day War. Abbas said he wouldn’t return to negotiations unless Israel froze all settlement construction in the West Bank and east Jerusalem. Netanyahu has refused to renew a 10-month freeze on construction that expired in 2010.

Abbas will present the resolution in person in New York, according to a UN official speaking on condition of anonymity. A vote is expected to take place by the end of the month, the official said.

Still, the move isn’t without risks.

When the Palestinian Authority was accepted last year into the UN cultural agency UNESCO, best known for its designation of “world heritage” sites, the U.S. response was to cut off funding that provides almost a quarter of the agency’s budget.

The U.S. has said that American law would require similar cutoffs for any UN agency that grants the Palestinians the same status as member states.

International Criminal Court

The upgrade may open the door for Palestinians to join other UN agencies, including the International Criminal Court, where they could ask for Israel to be tried for war crimes.

“Israel’s main worry is the ICC,” Palestinian chief negotiator Saeb Erakat said in an Oct. 24 interview. “They don’t want me to have a sword on their neck.”

The initiative could also jeopardize international aid that accounts for about 14 percent of the Palestinians’ gross domestic product and invite retaliatory measures from Israel.

As for the U.S., the administration’s position hasn’t wavered. The U.S. ambassador to the UN, Susan Rice, has said repeatedly that “unilateral actions,” such as the upgrade of the Palestinians’ UN status, would only derail efforts to restart direct peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians.
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:48 AM   #181
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
The first and most important reason that can't work is the palestinian side has no interest in peace according to those terms.
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
What makes you think that the Palestinians and Hamas would accept that?
So you'd be down for it?
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Old 11-19-2012, 07:59 AM   #182
KILLER_CLOWN KILLER_CLOWN is offline
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Originally Posted by stevieray View Post
no, sorry.
This happened at the cross.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:06 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by KILLER_CLOWN View Post
This happened at the cross.
how do you come to that conclusion?
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:32 AM   #184
Donger Donger is offline
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
So you'd be down for it?
What makes you think that the Palestinians and Hamas would accept what you proposed?
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:44 AM   #185
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
So you'd be down for it?
You haven't established what the land swaps would be. But that's not important because we know that the palestinians don't want peace.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:20 AM   #186
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Meanwhile, the peace loving people of Gaza rocket fire two schools as a sign they would love a sit down and tea with their Jewish friends....

http://www.timesofisrael.com/all-eye...und-incursion/

http://www.timesofisrael.com/all-eye...und-incursion/
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:57 AM   #187
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You are pretty amusing yourself Direckshun. The fact that you cannot tell the difference between collateral damage and intentionally targeting women and children is very telling.

Israel is not perfect, but they are on the right side of this conflict.

You can be a Muslin and live peacefully in Israel. Can you be a Jew and survive Gaza?
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:03 PM   #188
Nafman87 Nafman87 is offline
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I have been on this site for a while just reading threads and posts by other people. I am a huge chiefs fan that lives in Israel. I served in the Israeli army for 3 years as a tank driver and a medic.
It makes me sad to see how people really can't see the truth in the Israeli Palestinian situation. The Israeli citizens in the south are constantly living in fear because of all the rockets that Hamas has been shooting at their homes, schools, places of work, public parks.

Believe me Israel would love nothing more than live in peace with the Palestinians. I was in the previous operation in gaze in 2009 and am waiting to get the call for reserves any day now.

Unlike Hamas we don't use our woman and children as human shields. We are defending our country just like any other country would in our situation.
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:10 PM   #189
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy View Post
You are pretty amusing yourself Direckshun. The fact that you cannot tell the difference between collateral damage and intentionally targeting women and children is very telling.

Israel is not perfect, but they are on the right side of this conflict.

You can be a Muslin and live peacefully in Israel. Can you be a Jew and survive Gaza?
Not to mention the fact that collateral damage is what it is not because of carelessness or indifference on the part of the Israelis but because Hamas intentionally uses civilians as shields in a conscious effort to increase such damage.
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:13 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by Nafman87 View Post
I have been on this site for a while just reading threads and posts by other people. I am a huge chiefs fan that lives in Israel. I served in the Israeli army for 3 years as a tank driver and a medic.
It makes me sad to see how people really can't see the truth in the Israeli Palestinian situation. The Israeli citizens in the south are constantly living in fear because of all the rockets that Hamas has been shooting at their homes, schools, places of work, public parks.

Believe me Israel would love nothing more than live in peace with the Palestinians. I was in the previous operation in gaze in 2009 and am waiting to get the call for reserves any day now.

Unlike Hamas we don't use our woman and children as human shields. We are defending our country just like any other country would in our situation.
Some of us have at least a remedial appreciation of your situation. We apologize for the Direckshuns among us. Good luck to you and all the other peace seekers in the area and may you and yours remain safe.
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:53 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by Nafman87 View Post
I have been on this site for a while just reading threads and posts by other people. I am a huge chiefs fan that lives in Israel. I served in the Israeli army for 3 years as a tank driver and a medic.
It makes me sad to see how people really can't see the truth in the Israeli Palestinian situation. The Israeli citizens in the south are constantly living in fear because of all the rockets that Hamas has been shooting at their homes, schools, places of work, public parks.

Believe me Israel would love nothing more than live in peace with the Palestinians. I was in the previous operation in gaze in 2009 and am waiting to get the call for reserves any day now.

Unlike Hamas we don't use our woman and children as human shields. We are defending our country just like any other country would in our situation.

Very cool. What do you see are the obviously biggest obstacles to peace?
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Old 11-19-2012, 01:08 PM   #192
Nafman87 Nafman87 is offline
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Very cool. What do you see are the obviously biggest obstacles to peace?
Israel is surrounded by enemies. From the north to the south to the east. All we want us peace. We want to be able to live our life not having to worry that at any moment we will be attacked by Gaza or Lebanon or Syria or Iran or Egypt. And so on and so on. If the Arab countries would just learn to live with the fact that us, the Jews, also deserve a country where we can live in peace. Then there will be peace.

For some reason the world always makes us look like the bad guys. It's crazy that these terrorists in Gaza can shoot rockets at our civilians for years. Then once the IDF finally defends its country we are the bad guys.
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Old 11-19-2012, 01:17 PM   #193
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by Nafman87 View Post
Israel is surrounded by enemies.
Why do you want to live there, if that's the case? Doesn't seem like you're ever going to be able to live your life free from attack.
That stems from the history of the area, not because of who you are.


Quote:
For some reason the world always makes us look like the bad guys. It's crazy that these terrorists in Gaza can shoot rockets at our civilians for years. Then once the IDF finally defends its country we are the bad guys.
I don't think the "world" makes you look like the bad guys. That's a broad brush.
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Old 11-19-2012, 01:35 PM   #194
Nafman87 Nafman87 is offline
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Why do you want to live there, if that's the case? Doesn't seem like you're ever going to be able to live your life free from attack.
The stems from the history of the area, not because of who you are.


I don't think the "world" makes you look like the bad guys. That's a broad brush.
I live here because I am a Zionist and believe that Israel is the Jewish state. There are many Arabs that live in peace Amongst us. Then there are the terrorists who commit acts of terror on innocent civilians. Whether it be suicide bombers or shooting missiles at us. What most of the world don't know is that there are attempts at terror attacks weekly that are caught in time by the IDF.

I will never leave this country because I believe that one day we can live in peace.

You are right, I overreacted by saying the whole world makes us look bad. The fact is that I just don't understand how ppl some ppl can call us the terrorists or "the bad ones" in this situation.

We sit quietly while we are bombed for years. Then one day we can't take it anymore, and we finally fight back. We are the victims here.

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Old 11-19-2012, 02:09 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by Nafman87 View Post
I live here because I am a Zionist and believe that Israel is the Jewish state. There are many Arabs that live in peace Amongst us. Then there are the terrorists who commit acts of terror on innocent civilians. Whether it be suicide bombers or shooting missiles at us. What most of the world don't know is that there are attempts at terror attacks weekly that are caught in time by the IDF.

I will never leave this country because I believe that one day we can live in peace.

You are right, I overreacted by saying the whole world makes us look bad. The fact is that I just don't understand how ppl some ppl can call us the terrorists or "the bad ones" in this situation.

We sit quietly while we are bombed for years. Then one day we can't take it anymore, and we finally fight back. We are the victims here.
Never forget, the media is not interested in the truth, they are interested in telling a story. Stay strong.
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