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Old 11-12-2012, 10:51 AM  
Von Dumbass Von Dumbass is offline
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PFW: Flowers told teammates he would give all the money back if he could just leave

http://www.profootballweekly.com/201...kansas-citys-l

A day before the country voted on Election Day, the Chiefs gave their concession speech for the season following a 1-7 start.

It came off as a conciliatory measure when, three days after an embarrassing 31-13 prime-time loss to the Chargers — their third consecutive double-digit setback — Chiefs head coach Romeo Crennel removed himself as defensive coordinator, promoting Gary Gibbs to that post, and the team cut starting CB Stanford Routt.

A day later, Crennel announced that QB Matt Cassel (who previously had been benched for Brady Quinn) would start again in Week 10 because Quinn was suffering the aftereffects following a Week Eight concussion against the Raiders.

Assuming that the embattled duo of Crennel and GM Scott Pioli are not employing Socratic irony in running their NFL franchise, we only can assume that the first two moves are their contrition for a lost season. The third, their hopeless QB situation, is a symbol of their severe limitations.

“Their QB situation is bad and they really have not upgraded it at all,” a former Chiefs evaluator said. “Not to mention, the playmakers on the roster — Jamaal Charles, Dwayne Bowe, Derrick Johnson, Brandon Flowers, Tamba Hali — they were already there. (Pioli has) added nothing like that. The left tackle (Branden Albert) they complained about — guess what — he is still playing. He was already there.

“(Pioli) gives $60 million to a backup quarterback, then swap him out for Brady Quinn who now has a concussion. They have done nothing to that roster but (screw) it up.”

The Chiefs are bad — not necessarily historically so, but to a shocking degree:

In more than 485 minutes of football this season, including the lone sudden-death victory in New Orleans, the Chiefs have not had a second tick off the clock with a lead on the scoreboard. You have to go back to the pre-World War II days of professional football to find that kind of inefficiency.
The Chiefs committed 29 turnovers through eight games, the most in the NFL at the midpoint of a season in 15 years. They had 28 for the entire 2011 season.
The combined TD-INT ratio of Cassel and Quinn is 6-14. The only team that has so few TD passes is the Dolphins. No team has more interceptions.
Their point differential in 2012 is minus-107. At home, where they have an 0-4 record, it’s minus-46.

When the Chiefs next return to Kansas City in Week 11, an unpleasant sight might be awaiting them. Two banners flew over Arrowhead Stadium the last time they played there, a hard-fought 26-16 loss to the Raiders. One read “Return Hope, Fire Pioli” and the second read, “Blackout Arrowhead 11/18,” the date when the Chiefs face the Bengals. The “blackout” portion encourages fans to wear all black (instead of their traditional game-day red) as a sign of protest for the direction of the team.

The banners were sponsored by a fan-based group, SaveOurChiefs.com, that is frustrated with the miserable start to the season that began with reasonably high expectations but has endured — and for most intents and purposes, ended — with massive disappointment and the futures of Crennel and Pioli very much up in the air.

“It’s as bad as it’s been here,” said Kansas City Star columnist Sam Mellinger, who has been a frequent, caustic critic of the team this season. “The fans are tired. They are tired of not having a quarterback. (The Chiefs) were a chic Super Bowl pick for some people, and this happens. Fans are angry right now, and you can understand why.”

Naturally, Chiefs coaches and players are frustrated, too. A source told PFW that CB Brandon Flowers, who signed a six-year, $49.3 million deal last September, has been telling teammates in the locker room that he would give back all his new money just so he could leave the team.

“I haven’t heard him saying that,” Chiefs LB Derrick Johnson told PFW. “Brandon Flowers isn’t a problem guy — let’s just get that out there.

“His locker is right by mine. He’s one of our better players on defense. I didn’t know he said that. He does his talking on Sundays on the field. That’s all we ask of him.”

Even with talented players on the roster such as Flowers, the Chiefs have not been able to win. Earlier in the season, after Cassel was injured in the 9-6 loss to the Ravens and replaced by Quinn, ORT Eric Winston launched into a postgame tirade, railing against what he said were fans cheering Cassel’s injury, when neutral observers struggled to hear what Winston said he heard. The rant didn’t do wonders for the relationship with the rabid fan base, some of which is calling for heads to roll, namely those of Crennel and Pioli.

“(Pioli) let a Hall of Famer and great locker-room and great community guy in Tony (Gonzalez) get out of there,” the former Chiefs evaluator said. “(OG Brian) Waters was a great leader and locker-room guy and community guy and went to New England and played at a Pro Bowl level. There are a lot of mistakes there.”

There’s also the issue of Pioli’s contract, the details of which remain closely guarded. It was reported by other news agencies in October that Pioli had been offered a two-year extension during the offseason, but a well-placed league source told PFW that he might quietly have signed such an extension this summer. Like his mentor, Bill Belichick, the Chiefs’ GM does not speak about his contract status. It’s not known what a potential buyout might cost the team, but it certainly would not come cheaply. Either way, fans remain perhaps even more frustrated with Pioli than anyone else in the organization, and it will be tough for him to retain his job without significant second-half improvement.

“I bet (Chiefs owner) Clark (Hunt) is praying that they finish with three more wins some way, somehow,” a top NFL executive said. “If they go 1-15, he can’t justify (keeping Pioli). But get to 5-11 or 6-10 — they will go get a QB and hope they’ll be fine, try to sell that Kool-Aid.

“That is not the answer either. They need a QB and need a lot of other things on defense, too. I love it when it is third down and (2012 first-round pick Dontari) Poe and Tyson Jackson are sitting on the sideline — how many top-10 picks are sitting on the sideline next to the coach on third down?”

Following the loss to the Raiders, Crennel said, “I understand their frustrations because I’m frustrated myself. What we’re doing — coaches, players — we’re continuing to work to try and get it right. And if they’ll just hang with us, hopefully something will change.”

That was followed by the 18-point loss to the Chargers last Thursday. Monday night they face the Steelers, winners of three consecutive games, in Pittsburgh.

“They have big-play potential every play, and we know what they are capable of,” Johnson said. “We’ve seen it, plenty of it, before.”

Awaiting them is former Chiefs head coach Todd Haley, the Steelers’ offensive coordinator who, according to various reports last week, isn’t afraid to run up the score against the team — and, more specifically, the man, Pioli, with whom he repeatedly butted heads for two years — that fired him prior to Week 15 last season. Fox’s Jay Glazer reported on Sunday that the Chiefs had not yet paid the remainder of Haley’s contract that he was owed.

Following Haley’s ouster last season, Crennel was promoted from defensive coordinator to interim coach, engineering a colossal upset of the 13-0 Packers in a defensive masterpiece. It’s believed that the victory, along with Crennel’s good working relationship with Pioli and the players was what earned him the full-time job in the offseason.

But things have gone south since. After Flowers’ deal, plus long-term contracts for Tamba Hali and Johnson the past two seasons, Pioli deemed re-signing CB Brandon Carr too expensive. Instead, the team let him walk to the Cowboys at an average-per-year salary of $10 million, signed Routt as a Band-Aid (three years, $19.6 million, $4 million guaranteed) and used the franchise tag on WR Dwayne Bowe.

No long-term deal has been signed with Bowe, who is playing on the one-year tender of $9.5 million but is expected to walk in free agency this coming offseason. Joining him could be free-agents-to-be OLT Branden Albert and DE Glenn Dorsey. There has been talk about a long-term deal with Albert, and the team could opt to use the franchise tag on him, but it’s not known if any real progress has been made toward an extension. At the start of the season, per NFLPA figures, the Chiefs were $14.5 million below the salary cap.

Of course, the more pressing issue is whether Pioli will be the one making that decision. Some league sources believe that his strong relationship with Hunt — and how much money Pioli has saved the owner by not spending up to the cap every season — could spare the GM for another season, but others believe that ship has sailed and there’s little he or Crennel can do in the final eight games to save themselves.

The moves of cutting Routt, who was signed since Carr left, and promoting Gibbs (which Crennel said would help him spend more time with the struggling offense) appear on the surface to be last-ditch efforts to do so. But many around the league believe that Pioli has not done enough to warrant a return. If Hunt lets Pioli go, it’s unlikely a new general manager would retain Crennel, as he likely would want to hire his own head coach.

The approval ratings and morale around the team are as low as they’ve been since Pioli’s arrival in 2009. Although the Chiefs are strong candidates to earn the first pick in next year’s draft, there doesn't appear to be a college quarterback in the caliber of Andrew Luck or Robert Griffin III to provide relief — or hope.

“Scott has never been a guy who hits the road hard,” an NFL GM said. “I heard he was out scouting the QB at USC (Matt Barkley). To me, that is a sign Scott is running away from his problems. If anything, he needs to be in-house protecting his head coach. Now is not the time to be running out.”

Hunt has heard the fans and seen the midseason results. It’s going to be a tough sell to keep the current administration in place for another season.

“We have to play hard, play for pride,” Johnson said. “It’s not easy. No one is feeling sorry for us. We just have to make the best of this and win as many games as we can.”

Last edited by Von Dumbass; 11-12-2012 at 10:59 AM..
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:40 PM   #76
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I honestly believe that football teams should be like they're portrayed in the movies. You need some smart guys, you need some fiery leader guys, you need some talented and naive rookies, and you need grizzled veterans on their last legs to teach them.

As a semi-related aside, Jimmy Johnson was just featured on that "Football Life" show. He was out on a fishing boat with Belichick, and he said, "Hit me in the head with a hammer if I ever draft a dumb guy", and Belichick said, "Yeah, you taught me that."

Johnson then went on to say that you can't reason with a dumb player. He would take a malcontent who was smart because you could reason with that guy, but you can't reason with a guy who's inherently dumb.
The problem seems to me that neither Belichick or Pioli can see through the emotion to find the guy that plays both smart and with that emotion.

For all of his defensive genius stature, Belichick has fielded a sorry defense since the players that he inherited from the Pete Carrol years have moved on.
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:46 PM   #77
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I think we could win tonight. What I am saying is that our best talent isn't that good. These ****ers don't care man. If they cared, they would play like Denver played last year without a QB. Our best players would roll with it like Freeney and mathis. They would resign like Reggie Wayne. We have no leaders and we have the wrong guys.
Wow. Just Wow!!
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:46 PM   #78
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This is why we need Save Our Chiefs.

Premium talent like Bflo is just rotting away.

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Old 11-12-2012, 12:47 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Rain Man View Post
I honestly believe that football teams should be like they're portrayed in the movies. You need some smart guys, you need some fiery leader guys, you need some talented and naive rookies, and you need grizzled veterans on their last legs to teach them.

As a semi-related aside, Jimmy Johnson was just featured on that "Football Life" show. He was out on a fishing boat with Belichick, and he said, "Hit me in the head with a hammer if I ever draft a dumb guy", and Belichick said, "Yeah, you taught me that."

Johnson then went on to say that you can't reason with a dumb player. He would take a malcontent who was smart because you could reason with that guy, but you can't reason with a guy who's inherently dumb.
So you're saying we need Dennis Quaid, Jamie Foxx, LL Cool J, Ryan Gosling, Mark Wahlberg, Sean Astin, Omar Epps, Keanu Reeves, Orlando Jones and Jon Favreau?

Add in a coaching staff of Al Pacino, Denzel Washington, Will Patton, James Caan and Gene Hackman and we'd be unstoppable.
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:48 PM   #80
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**** Flowers. He quit in that Buffalo game and that was week 2. Our leadership sucks ass. I didn't even have to read that shit to see it. Honestly, DJ is even worse imo.
Flowers is playing through that ankle injury and imo he's still hobbled. He's unable to get off blocks during run plays the way he normally does.

He's got heart, that player. I know he pulled up during the Buf game, but i think he's just trying to do what he can this season.

This team needs a pass rusher. Really badly. You can help those guys up front when you have a Carr/Flowers tandem, but even then, you can't expect to stop the passing game in the new NFL without a pass rush.
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:50 PM   #81
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So you're saying we need Dennis Quaid, Jamie Foxx, LL Cool J, Ryan Gosling, Mark Wahlberg, Sean Astin, Omar Epps, Keanu Reeves, Orlando Jones and Jon Favreau?

Add in a coaching staff of Al Pacino, Denzel Washington, Will Patton, James Caan and Gene Hackman and we'd be unstoppable.
al pacino as hc fox at qb wed be unstoppable
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:53 PM   #82
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So you're saying we need Dennis Quaid, Jamie Foxx, LL Cool J, Ryan Gosling, Mark Wahlberg, Sean Astin, Omar Epps, Keanu Reeves, Orlando Jones and Jon Favreau?

Add in a coaching staff of Al Pacino, Denzel Washington, Will Patton, James Caan and Gene Hackman and we'd be unstoppable.
And Devon Sawa

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Old 11-12-2012, 12:55 PM   #83
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:56 PM   #84
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NOBODY is going to want to come here in 2013 if pioli keeps his job... NOBODY.

Please God, make Clark see the light.
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:10 PM   #85
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You really are a ****ing moron.

Leadership isn't something that you just take on.

Leadership is an inherent trait that is developed through years.

Brandon Flowers has never been a leader, and never will be.

It's not in his DNA.

Leaders are guys like Ray Lewis and James Harrison.

Guys that play with fire and emotion.

Guys that others gravtate to and follow natuarally.

The Jets should just release Darrelle Revis.

He got a big contract, but he's not a leader.

Can't justify that contract, even though he's the best at his position, because you don't give big contracts to guys that lack leadership.
I know this and that is why I don't understand why Pioli invested a several players who are inconsistant and aren't leaders.

This team's "core" players were never leaders. That's part of the problem.
You can't tell me that guys like Flowers and DJ weren't asked to lead this team when they got their second contracts.

You can say what you want to but, KC only goes where Jamaal Charles goes. If he plays well, we have a shot. If he doesn't, we lose. It's much more than the coach, the QB, or the GM.

It's also the rest of the players and the talent level.

The only guys that might be here when we make it somewhere someday are Houston and Berry imo.

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NOBODY is going to want to come here in 2013 if pioli keeps his job... NOBODY.

Please God, make Clark see the light.
Not true. Plenty of guys like the ones we have will want to come. The ones that are about the money.

Last edited by Woodchuck; 11-12-2012 at 01:16 PM..
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:15 PM   #86
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Flowers is playing through that ankle injury and imo he's still hobbled. He's unable to get off blocks during run plays the way he normally does.

He's got heart, that player. I know he pulled up during the Buf game, but i think he's just trying to do what he can this season.

This team needs a pass rusher. Really badly. You can help those guys up front when you have a Carr/Flowers tandem, but even then, you can't expect to stop the passing game in the new NFL without a pass rush.
Pioli invested in inconsistant players. DJ, Flowers, and Bowe are/were inconsistant. All he and Clark talked about was consistancy and Pioli resigned those guys. That's a big part of our problem imo.

Flowers gets hurt and either misses or comes out of games every year. The guy that walked has never missed a game. There have been multiple games where Flowers was specifically targeted at the end. I'm not going to get into too much but he is overrated by Chiefs fans and I'll leave it at that. He's not consistant and he's not a leader.

I doubt it will happen but I hope Pioli gets fired ASAP. Then, the media will turn it's attention to some of the quitters on the field.
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:29 PM   #87
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Could we fit that article on a banner?
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:38 PM   #88
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The problem is that Pioli has avoided the guys that play with emotion.

He believes the best way to win is to find guys that play smart.

But the great defenses always have that one or two guys that play with their emotion on their sleeves, and when you have that, the rest of the team follows.

The Patriots, in their SB years, had those guys, with Willie McGinest and Teddy Breuski.

As soon as those guys started to move on, even though their defense still played smart, that defense declined, because they drafted smart players who don't bring any emotion.
Good points...
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:39 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Woodsponge Chuckpants View Post
I know this and that is why I don't understand why Pioli invested a several players who are inconsistant and aren't leaders.

This team's "core" players were never leaders. That's part of the problem.
You can't tell me that guys like Flowers and DJ weren't asked to lead this team when they got their second contracts.
He might have asked them to be leaders, but he might as well have asked rain to not be wet.

You can't ask for leadership from people who aren't leaders.
It simply isn't going to work.

If he did ask, and actually expected to get leadership from those guys, then he's a BlackBob level moron.

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You can say what you want to but, KC only goes where Jamaal Charles goes. If he plays well, we have a shot. If he doesn't, we lose. It's much more than the coach, the QB, or the GM.
Do you even think of what it is you are saying when you post?

Do you not understand, at least somewhere in that useless lump of coal that resides inside your head that the implications of what you just said are exactly an indictment of the QB position?
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:42 PM   #90
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This is why we need Save Our Chiefs.

Premium talent like Bflo is just rotting away.


This.

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