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Old 11-09-2012, 01:32 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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A tax hike for the wealthy won't kill growth.

According to the CBO.

Right as Congress and the White House get down to negotiating over the fiscal cliff.

In the image below, you can see that of all the things you could extend to avoid the fiscal cliff, extending defense spending gets the biggest bang for your GDP buck.

By far the least bang? You guessed it:



The Bush tax cuts. Especially for the wealthy.

Cutting them out, as a result, is probably the easiest means by which you can get a leg up on this massive deficit.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8A71D020121109

Tax hike for wealthy won't kill growth: CBO
By David Lawder and Kim Dixon
WASHINGTON | Thu Nov 8, 2012 9:03pm EST

(Reuters) - Allowing income tax rates to rise for wealthy Americans, and maintaining rates for the less affluent, would not hurt U.S. economic growth much in 2013, the Congressional Budget Office said on Thursday, stepping into a dispute between Republicans and Democrats over how to resolve the so-called "fiscal cliff."

The report by the authoritative non-partisan arm of Congress is expected to fuel President Barack Obama's demand for higher taxes on the rich, part of his proposal to avoid the full impact of the expiring tax cuts and across-the-board spending reductions set to begin in early 2013 unless Congress acts.

Republicans argue that any tax increases would be devastating to the economy, particularly to small businesses, and to U.S. employment rates.

They have held firm to their position that none of the cuts, which originated during the administration of President George W. Bush, should be allowed to expire.

The CBO said the tax hikes for the wealthy would reduce job growth by around 200,000 jobs, much less than the 700,000 in job losses claimed by Republican Speaker of the House John A. Boehner.

Obama has also stuck to his position, with the White House reiterating on Thursday that the president sees his election victory on Tuesday as an endorsement by voters of his view on higher taxes for the affluent.

"One of the messages that was sent by the American people throughout this campaign is ... (they) clearly chose the president's view of making sure that the wealthiest Americans are asked to do a little bit more in the context of reducing our deficit in a balanced way," senior White House adviser David Plouffe said.

UNCERTAINTY SCARING MARKETS

The disagreement over the tax cuts is a major roadblock to any agreement in Congress, as it is coupled with the spending issues also on the table.

The lack of progress in ending the standoff is spooking global markets, which fell again Thursday in part because of political uncertainty in Washington.

The concern was underscored by the credit rating agency, Standard & Poor's, which said on Thursday it sees an increasing chance that the U.S. economy will go over the cliff next year. But it also said it expects policymakers will probably compromise in time to avoid that outcome.

Analysts at the agency see about a 15 percent chance that political brinkmanship will push the world's largest economy over the fiscal cliff.

With only five days remaining before the U.S. Congress begins its post-election session, top political leaders in Washington provided little new assurance Thursday that they can act in time.

In an interview with ABC Television's Diane Sawyer, Boehner repeated what he has been saying for two years: "Raising tax rates is unacceptable. ... Frankly, it couldn't even pass the House. I'm not sure it could pass the Senate," he said, according to a transcript provided by the network.

The Democratic White House did not respond publicly to an initiative launched on Wednesday by Boehner to get talks going to avoid the cliff. The president is scheduled to make a statement on the economy Friday.

In the absence of concrete developments, the CBO report became the focus of argument Thursday. Reports by the CBO are designed to assist Congress in making difficult fiscal decisions, but they are also used by partisans to bolster their own arguments.

A statement from the Republican-controlled House Ways and Means Committee said the CBO report "confirms that raising taxes on all taxpayers will result in fewer ‘help wanted' signs hanging in the windows of businesses across the country. Job creators agree, and have made it clear, that raising taxes will result in a weaker economy and fewer jobs for the millions of Americans struggling to find work."

Democratic Rep. Chris Van Hollen, ranking member of the House Budget Committee, said the report "underscores the need to prevent the so-called fiscal cliff from harming American families and businesses, and to instead enact a balanced, long-term deficit reduction plan."

The term "balanced" plan is the Democratic code for tax increases.

The tax cuts were enacted during the Bush administration, but were made temporary, in part to reduce the appearance of exploding the already soaring U.S. deficit over the long term.

They were extended in 2010 for two years under an agreement between Republicans and Obama, after Republicans swept the mid-term elections that year and took control of the House.

That extension is running out, just as the trigger date arrives for automatic spending cuts Congress approved in 2011 as part of a deal to avoid a default on U.S. government debt.

VARIOUS SCENARIOS

The report from CBO laid out the economic effects of a number of options that lawmakers will consider as they deal with the fiscal cliff events.

The CBO said extending all of the tax cuts would boost U.S. gross domestic product growth next year by a little less than 1.5 percentage points.

If the tax rates were extended only for individuals earning less than $200,000 and couples earnings less than $250,000, CBO said, growth would rise by 1.25 percent.

Wall Street estimates show third-quarter GDP growth was 2.8 percent. Unemployment is currently at 7.9 percent.

Eliminating the automatic spending cuts to military and domestic programs would add back 0.75 percentage points of growth, as would extending an expiring payroll tax cut and long- term unemployment benefits that are expected to end next year, the CBO said.

But the office also warned of the consequences of taking such actions without reducing deficits that have run at $1 trillion in each of the past four years.

"CBO expects that even if all of the fiscal tightening was eliminated, the economy would remain below its potential and the unemployment rate would remain higher than usual for some time," the report said.
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:30 PM   #46
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I'm getting that from your posts above, James. I'm well-aware that the majority of Americans voted for Obama and his policies. You seem to be saying that the slightly less than half who didn't should just shut, not debate and go along with Obama, just because he won.

Is that not right? If it isn't right, please feel free to elaborate. In between checking out dead-drops, that is.
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:36 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
I'm getting that from your posts above, James. I'm well-aware that the majority of Americans voted for Obama and his policies. You seem to be saying that the slightly less than half who didn't should just shut, not debate and go along with Obama, just because he won.

Is that not right? If it isn't right, please feel free to elaborate. In between checking out dead-drops, that is.
On this issue, this major issue Obama gets his way. Thats why we vote. To decide big issues. Just like if Romeny would have won he and his buddies would have tried to dismantle Obamacare. Or would you feel that we needed to debate Obamacare for another year?

My point is that at the 10K feet view, the gap between the middle class and rich is getting wider and wider. Thats not good for America. The core of our success is a strong middle class. We should concentrate on strengthening our core.
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:38 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
We have debated this for two years. We had an election. The time for debate is over. The people voted.

Obama was very clear what his plan was, didn't he? Did he not make it perfectly clear?

The R's win the election in 2016, you can put them back in. Elections have consequences.
You completely ignored my point so that you could repeat your same bullshit rhetoric again.

My point is that you are being dishonest. These are not tax cuts for the rich. These are tax increases on the rich. Stop being such a pussy and call it what it really is.
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:39 PM   #49
Brainiac Brainiac is offline
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You completely ignored my point so that you could repeat your same bullshit rhetoric again.

My point is that you are being dishonest. These are not tax cuts for the rich. These are tax increases on the rich. Stop being such a pussy and call it what it really is.
In fact, if you had any balls at all, you'd say "We are increasing taxes on the rich because we got a ****ing mandate to do it and ELECTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES!".
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:39 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
On this issue, this major issue Obama gets his way. Thats why we vote. To decide big issues.
So, yes, you DO think that the opposition just roll over and suddenly accept Obama's position just because he won, correct?

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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
Just like if Romeny would have won he and his buddies would have tried to dismantle Obamacare. Or would you feel that we needed to debate Obamacare for another year?
Well, if I'm reading you correctly, if Romney had won, the Democrats shouldn't oppose what Romney wanted to do with anything, right?
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:41 PM   #51
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Just so we are clear: not raising taxes is now a "tax break"?
War is peace.

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Ignorance is strength.
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:41 PM   #52
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I'm not saying anyone has to agree with him. No one has to change their minds on whats right for the country. WTF are you getting that insane idea?

You are operating on a false assumption. You think the elections doesn't matter. Elections matter and they have consequences.

The majority of people in america said I want the econoomic and tax policy to be the one that Obama is for. You can try to **** them all with a rusty chainsaw but it is still a fact. The majority has spoke.
Yes, that's why the Democrats regained control of the House of Representatives.

Oh wait ....
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:42 PM   #53
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
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You completely ignored my point so that you could repeat your same bullshit rhetoric again.

My point is that you are being dishonest. These are not tax cuts for the rich. These are tax increases on the rich. Stop being such a pussy and call it what it really is.
They are in reality, tax hikes on the rich.

Feel better.
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:43 PM   #54
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On this issue, this major issue Obama gets his way. Thats why we vote. To decide big issues.
That's not what the Constitution states though. The House has the power of the purse and they still won a majority. Yeah, it was chiseled down but it held. That's the way we vote when we have three branches, with separate powers and checks and balances. Now, I am not saying they must not cooperate...they can if they want. But they have every right from the election to not give Obama everything he wants. I think the message was they want both sides to cooperate for the good of the country, otherwise the house would have lost the edge.

That being said, I support military cuts. I think everyone should share the tax burden though—not just the rich.
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:44 PM   #55
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So, yes, you DO think that the opposition just roll over and suddenly accept Obama's position just because he won, correct?

Well, if I'm reading you correctly, if Romney had won, the Democrats shouldn't oppose what Romney wanted to do with anything, right?
No, I dont.
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:45 PM   #56
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That being said, I support military cuts. I think everyone should share the tax burden though—not just the rich.
I agree. If they make a "grand deal" the pain has to be felt by everyone. No one group can be spared.
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:46 PM   #57
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No, I dont.
Then, like I said, between now and your next shaken Martini, please elaborate what EXACTLY you meant.
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:47 PM   #58
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I agree. If they make a "grand deal" the pain has to be felt by everyone. No one group can be spared.
And with no group being spared, real spending cuts must also be considered.
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:48 PM   #59
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That is not my point at all. No one has to just accept everything. No one has to blindly fall in line. Where the **** are you guys getting this idea? What did I say that you have lost the freedom of thought and expression?
Because vailpass expressed a thought about taxes and you were like, "WTF?!?!? The election is over."
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:50 PM   #60
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Then, like I said, between now and your next shaken Martini, please elaborate what EXACTLY you meant.
If its not clear by now its not going to be. You misinterpreted my comments as some kind of advocacy for dictatorship. I don't see how you could interpret my comments that way. If my fault, my bad.
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