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Old 11-08-2012, 06:55 AM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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The Conservative Media Is Lying To You

Conor Friedersdorf ****ing nails it. If you bathe in the muck of the vast majority of conservative media -- if you read FoxNews.com more than any other site, if you hail Mark Levin as brilliant, if you live and die by Drudge...

Then you are being lied to.

There are plenty of conservative sources that simply have a conservative view on the world -- the Wall Street Journal, for instance. But that's distinct from the profitable media empire that sells propaganda damn near 24/7.

Example #1, since it comes up so much in this forum: the Drudge Report.

How many times did the Drudge Report link to Nate Silver, who absolutely crushed his election predictions? Zero.
How many times did the Drudge Report link to Dick Morris? A dozen.

And yet you bought it. You might recall sitting there watching the election returns, certain that Romney would win because for months you've been inundated with Republican whores like Morris telling you what you wanted to hear -- "Obama's a paper tiger," "his campaign is getting desperate," "absolutely nobody I know is voting Obama," "I see more Romney yard signs," "look at this outlier poll that favors Romney"...

Then the results come in, largely how the vast majority of polls told us they would.

You were misinformed. Massively. And it's not just limited to election returns. On climate change, tax rates, income inequality, immigration, healthcare, energy, foreign policy (in particular the Middle East), gay rights for the longest time, and of course Obama himself... You are being sold a bullshit platter that leaves you just as misinformed as you were about the prospective election results.

The biggest offender, of course, is Fox News. Not that they're the most egregious violators of conservative propaganda, but they're by far the most pervasive and the most influential.

You trust Fox News because you believe they are simply reporting from a conservative point of view. That's not true. They are actively selling bullshit. This election and Rove's meltdown on the evening of the 6th is proof. This is an organization that is financially and professionally tied to the Republican Party. Fox News' overlords donate heavily to the GOP. Many Republican candidates for the Presidency either end up or originate as Fox News contributors. This is not an independent outlet in any shape or form, it is a direct arm of the Republican Party.

Get out of this bubble. Set Google News as your homepage. And embrace the next four years as an opportunity to find out what you actually believe, rather than simply adopting the narrative of charlatans.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...d-file/264855/

How Conservative Media Lost to the MSM and Failed the Rank and File
Nate Silver was right. His ideological antagonists were wrong. And that's just the beginning of the right's self-created information disadvantage.
By Conor Friedersdorf
Nov 7 2012, 6:30 AM ET

Before rank-and-file conservatives ask, "What went wrong?", they should ask themselves a question every bit as important: "Why were we the last to realize that things were going wrong for us?"

Barack Obama just trounced a Republican opponent for the second time. But unlike four years ago, when most conservatives saw it coming, Tuesday's result was, for them, an unpleasant surprise. So many on the right had predicted a Mitt Romney victory, or even a blowout -- Dick Morris, George Will, and Michael Barone all predicted the GOP would break 300 electoral votes. Joe Scarborough scoffed at the notion that the election was anything other than a toss-up. Peggy Noonan insisted that those predicting an Obama victory were ignoring the world around them. Even Karl Rove, supposed political genius, missed the bulls-eye. These voices drove the coverage on Fox News, talk radio, the Drudge Report, and conservative blogs.

Those audiences were misinformed.

Outside the conservative media, the narrative was completely different. Its driving force was Nate Silver, whose performance forecasting Election '08 gave him credibility as he daily explained why his model showed that President Obama enjoyed a very good chance of being reelected. Other experts echoed his findings. Readers of The New York Times, The Atlantic, and other "mainstream media" sites besides knew the expert predictions, which have been largely born out. The conclusions of experts are not sacrosanct. But Silver's expertise was always a better bet than relying on ideological hacks like Morris or the anecdotal impressions of Noonan.


Sure, Silver could've wound up wrong. But people who rejected the possibility of his being right? They were operating at a self-imposed information disadvantage.

Conservatives should be familiar with its contours. For years, they've been arguing that liberal control of media and academia confers one advantage: Folks on the right can't help but be familiar with the thinking of liberals, whereas leftists can operate entirely within a liberal cocoon. This analysis was offered to explain why liberal ideas were growing weaker and would be defeated.

Today?

It is easy to close oneself off inside a conservative echo chamber. And right-leaning outlets like Fox News and Rush Limbaugh's show are far more intellectually closed than CNN or public radio. If you're a rank-and-file conservative, you're probably ready to acknowledge that ideologically friendly media didn't accurately inform you about Election 2012. Some pundits engaged in wishful thinking; others feigned confidence in hopes that it would be a self-fulfilling prophecy; still others decided it was smart to keep telling right-leaning audiences what they wanted to hear.

But guess what?

You haven't just been misinformed about the horse race. Since the very beginning of the election cycle, conservative media has been failing you. With a few exceptions, they haven't tried to rigorously tell you the truth, or even to bring you intellectually honest opinion. What they've done instead helps to explain why the right failed to triumph in a very winnable election.

Why do you keep putting up with it?

Conservatives were at a disadvantage because Romney supporters like Jennifer Rubin and Hugh Hewitt saw it as their duty to spin constantly for their favored candidate rather than being frank about his strengths and weaknesses. What conservative Washington Post readers got, when they traded in Dave Weigel for Rubin, was a lot more hackery and a lot less informed about the presidential election.

Conservatives were at an information disadvantage because so many right-leaning outlets wasted time on stories the rest of America dismissed as nonsense. WorldNetDaily brought you birtherism. Forbes brought you Kenyan anti-colonialism. National Review obsessed about an imaginary rejection of American exceptionalism, misrepresenting an Obama quote in the process, and Andy McCarthy was interviewed widely about his theory that Obama, aka the Drone Warrior in Chief, allied himself with our Islamist enemies in a "Grand Jihad" against America. Seriously?

Conservatives were at a disadvantage because their information elites pandered in the most cynical, self-defeating ways, treating would-be candidates like Sarah Palin and Herman Cain as if they were plausible presidents rather than national jokes who'd lose worse than George McGovern.

How many months were wasted on them?

How many hours of Glenn Beck conspiracy theories did Fox News broadcast to its viewers? How many hours of transparently mindless Sean Hannity content is still broadcast daily? Why don't Americans trust Republicans on foreign policy as they once did? In part because conservatism hasn't grappled with the foreign-policy failures of George W. Bush. A conspiracy of silence surrounds the subject. Romney could neither run on the man's record nor repudiate it. The most damaging Romney gaffe of the campaign, where he talked about how the 47 percent of Americans who pay no income taxes are a lost cause for Republicans? Either he was unaware that many of those people are Republican voters, or was pandering to GOP donors who are misinformed. Either way, bad information within the conservative movement was to blame.

In conservative fantasy-land, Richard Nixon was a champion of ideological conservatism, tax cuts are the only way to raise revenue, adding neoconservatives to a foreign-policy team reassures American voters, Benghazi was a winning campaign issue, Clint Eastwood's convention speech was a brilliant triumph, and Obama's America is a place where black kids can beat up white kids with impunity. Most conservative pundits know better than this nonsense -- not that they speak up against it. They see criticizing their own side as a sign of disloyalty. I see a coalition that has lost all perspective, partly because there's no cost to broadcasting or publishing inane bullshit. In fact, it's often very profitable. A lot of cynical people have gotten rich broadcasting and publishing red meat for movement conservative consumption.

On the biggest political story of the year, the conservative media just got its ass handed to it by the mainstream media. And movement conservatives, who believe the MSM is more biased and less rigorous than their alternatives, have no way to explain how their trusted outlets got it wrong, while the New York Times got it right. Hint: The Times hired the most rigorous forecaster it could find.

It ought to be an eye-opening moment.

But I expect that it'll be quickly forgotten, that none of the conservatives who touted a polling conspiracy will be discredited, and that the right will continue to operate at an information disadvantage. After all, it's not like they'll trust the analysis of a non-conservative like me more than the numerous fellow conservatives who constantly tell them things that turn out not to be true.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:36 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
Shortened your post there...

George Bush won re-election and he wasn't even liked by his own party in 2004.

It amazes me that you guys are painting this as anything more than it is - an incumbent won re-election because incumbents almost always win re-election. He wasn't quite as bad as Carter and Romney wasn't anywhere near as good as Regan or Clinton.

I'll go ahead and stop listening to the Democrats telling the Republicans where they need to change to get votes, thank you. You guys don't care who says what if they have an R after their name - period. Romney is FAR closer to Clinton than Obama is but you fellas just won't admit it because there's an R there. So when the centrist you called for loses, you start to shout from the rooftops about the death of conservativism. The Ds aren't voting for a Republican and Romney kicked the shit out of Obama among independents.

You guys won because Obama is an extremely charismatic incumbent. The end.

But again, keep touting that 'mandate'.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:37 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
Shortened your post there...

George Bush won re-election and he wasn't even liked by his own party in 2004.

It amazes me that you guys are painting this as anything more than it is - an incumbent won re-election because incumbents almost always win re-election. He wasn't quite as bad as Carter and Romney wasn't anywhere near as good as Regan or Clinton.

I'll go ahead and stop listening to the Democrats telling the Republicans where they need to change to get votes, thank you. You guys don't care who says what if they have an R after their name - period. Romney is FAR closer to Clinton than Obama is but you fellas just won't admit it because there's an R there. So when the centrist you called for loses, you start to shout from the rooftops about the death of conservativism. The Ds aren't voting for a Republican and Romney kicked the shit out of Obama among independents.

You guys won because Obama is an extremely charismatic incumbent. The end.

But again, keep touting that 'mandate'.
With a complicit MSM to carry his water, cover his mistakes.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:39 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
Shortened your post there...

George Bush won re-election and he wasn't even liked by his own party in 2004.

It amazes me that you guys are painting this as anything more than it is - an incumbent won re-election because incumbents almost always win re-election. He wasn't quite as bad as Carter and Romney wasn't anywhere near as good as Regan or Clinton.

I'll go ahead and stop listening to the Democrats telling the Republicans where they need to change to get votes, thank you. You guys don't care who says what if they have an R after their name - period. Romney is FAR closer to Clinton than Obama is but you fellas just won't admit it because there's an R there. So when the centrist you called for loses, you start to shout from the rooftops about the death of conservativism. The Ds aren't voting for a Republican and Romney kicked the shit out of Obama among independents.

You guys won because Obama is an extremely charismatic incumbent. The end.

But again, keep touting that 'mandate'.
Was it 2000 (or midterms in 2002?) when the shoe was on the other foot? Everyone was saying that the Democratic Party was dead, foundering, needed to concede and change, etc... etc...

I just remember being on here and talking about it when it happened. I also remember doing it when I worked at Sierra Trading Post, so I think that would place it at 2000 or so. Anyway, I'll refrain from trying to "help" the GOP find its way. I'm sure they'll do just fine on their own. They've got plenty of smart (if misguided) people in leadership.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:39 AM   #49
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While I disagree with this article, I do believe that people who fall to their knees and worship Drudge, Breitbart, and Fox News are foolish. I'm as skeptical of them as I am of the leftwing news orgs.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:42 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Hoover View Post
While I disagree with this article, I do believe that people who fall to their knees and worship Drudge, Breitbart, and Fox News are foolish. I'm as skeptical of them as I am of the leftwing news orgs.
Seems like the only ones watching it are liberals. They bring it up nonstop like every conservative or independent locks on to it all day long
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:42 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Because a mandate is when you win 50%+ of the vote.

That is a fact.
It's pretty clear that you don't know what the word "fact" means.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:46 AM   #52
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Ah, I see that Direckshun still hasn't learned her lesson. Pity.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:47 AM   #53
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
Shortened your post there...

George Bush won re-election and he wasn't even liked by his own party in 2004.

It amazes me that you guys are painting this as anything more than it is - an incumbent won re-election because incumbents almost always win re-election. He wasn't quite as bad as Carter and Romney wasn't anywhere near as good as Regan or Clinton.
I'd quibble with this here or there, but fair enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
I'll go ahead and stop listening to the Democrats telling the Republicans where they need to change to get votes, thank you. You guys don't care who says what if they have an R after their name - period. Romney is FAR closer to Clinton than Obama is but you fellas just won't admit it because there's an R there. So when the centrist you called for loses, you start to shout from the rooftops about the death of conservativism. The Ds aren't voting for a Republican and Romney kicked the shit out of Obama among independents.
Actually Obama kicked the shit out of Romney with centrists, which is a different category than independents. Independents over the past four years became a misnomer because essentially a bunch of Republicans with Republican views got so upset with the party they renounced their membership, but still vote in line.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:49 AM   #54
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
10 Pinochios - The truth is that the Drudgereport links to Nate Silver every single day.
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Oh fantastic. Silver is in his blogroll at the bottom of his page, while Morris regularly received A1, top-of-the-fold treatment by Drudge.

That really destroys my argument.
Go Chiefs.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:50 AM   #55
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by Radar Chief View Post
With a complicit MSM to carry his water, cover his mistakes.
The "complicit MSM" reported polling numbers exactly as they were.

The conservative media lied about them, cast undue doubt on the pollsters, and regularly cited outliers.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:51 AM   #56
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Is there video of Roves meltdown? I'd love to see it. Been at my farm and haven't had a chance to watch it during election nite but heard it was awesome



Every other reference has magically disappeared. The really good part starts at the 2 minute mark from FOX. The best breakdown is on dailshow.com
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:52 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Hoover View Post
While I disagree with this article, I do believe that people who fall to their knees and worship Drudge, Breitbart, and Fox News are foolish. I'm as skeptical of them as I am of the leftwing news orgs.
Fox is the same thing as it's always been, a decent divining rod and nothing more.

Fox is where I'll go to find interesting thoughts and ideas I hadn't considered. Then I have to run them through an internal BS filter to see what I do/do not buy into.

I still maintain that Glenn Beck was among the most useful outlets for that sort of critical reading for a very long time. He's gone kinda nuts over the last 2-3 years, but prior to that, he often did present useful information that would require a critical eye to discern useful info from bullshit. I don't see anyone doing that on MSNBC, they mostly just yell about Fox News a lot (which is what Beck has devolved into himself).

Drudge does the same thing.

If you don't go to places like that, you simply won't see a lot of these idea. And while many of us are smart people, we have other demands on our time that keep us from sitting there staring at raw data and pondering the whole-scale political ramifications of it all.

If the MSM could be trusted for a balance approach to providing those ideas, FoxNews wouldn't have much of a viewership.

You say Conservative Media has failed the Republicans, but the truth is that the MSM has as well. Republicans and conservative independents simply don't have a many options right now, so the one that provides more content (even if it does require a filter) is better than the one that filters it for you in the MSM.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:52 AM   #58
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Ah, I see that Direckshun still hasn't learned her lesson. Pity.
Direckshun and his ilk are why the country to chose a GOP House of Representatives and GOP in the governors mansions of most states. The Direckshuns of the left need to look inward if they ever hope to win in the houses of the people again.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:55 AM   #59
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Go Chiefs.
Consider your argument destroyed.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:55 AM   #60
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Was it 2000 (or midterms in 2002?) when the shoe was on the other foot? Everyone was saying that the Democratic Party was dead, foundering, needed to concede and change, etc... etc...

I just remember being on here and talking about it when it happened. I also remember doing it when I worked at Sierra Trading Post, so I think that would place it at 2000 or so. Anyway, I'll refrain from trying to "help" the GOP find its way. I'm sure they'll do just fine on their own. They've got plenty of smart (if misguided) people in leadership.
’02, after the midterms when the Republicans picked up House seats.
I remember it as well, Republicans trying to tell Democrats how to fix their party. What did the Democrats do? They certainly didn’t follow Republicans advice, they doubled down on the rhetoric like Republicans want your grandma eating dog food and this “war on women” .
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