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Old 10-12-2012, 06:55 PM  
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The REAL tablet wars are about to start

Up until now the choices have actually been rather spartan when you compare the tablet market to the PC space. That is about to change in the next two months... and prices are going to reflect the change. (Though I doubt right away, it will take some time to shake it all out)


New tablets coming soon:

Windows 8 tablets: these are the most interesting due to the fact that they can double as a laptop and run x86 based programs. In theory these should dominate the market over time but in reality pricing will determine their adoption rate. Color me skeptical for now.

Windows RT: meh... basically windows version of an Android or iOS tablet, I see very limited potential here but who knows.

iPad Mini: Also will depend on pricing. If it isn't at least CLOSE to the $200 price point, I can't see any compelling reason to purchase one other than the typical Apple fan "have to have the cool new thing" factor. Of course, we know jack shite about their specs so I could be way off here... but it's always good to have more choices.

As for all the other Android tablets... I see a number of major price drops heading our way.. take a look at the new Kindle Fire HD 8.9 at $299 and the Nook HD+ at $269.. that's unreal. We are about to have quality tablets getting close to the $250 mark.

EDITED TO ADD RUMORS:

Google is supposedly releasing a $99 tablet and a 10.1" Nexus with REALLY high end specs (made by Samsung) both are rumored to start manufacturing in December.

Any thoughts?

Last edited by AustinChief; 10-12-2012 at 08:02 PM..
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Old 10-30-2012, 02:05 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silock View Post
In my years of owning a tablet, I've yet to need more than the built in storage. I not quite sure how that means it's less mobile. Not trying to be a dick. I just really don't understand what you are saying in that respect.
No problem. The cloud has its uses and I really do see the value in it. I just disagree that it is a visible solution for streaming large files for entertainment solutions. Why they can't just put out a single 16gb device with a SD slot is baffling to me. Let people decide how much local storage they need for themselves.

Some of us have no desire for monthly fees, network drops or lack of coverage areas.

Oh and not to mention the oversized movie files. Movies do not need to be that large of a file for streaming.
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Old 10-30-2012, 02:25 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by Guru View Post
No problem. The cloud has its uses and I really do see the value in it. I just disagree that it is a visible solution for streaming large files for entertainment solutions. Why they can't just put out a single 16gb device with a SD slot is baffling to me. Let people decide how much local storage they need for themselves.

Some of us have no desire for monthly fees, network drops or lack of coverage areas.

Oh and not to mention the oversized movie files. Movies do not need to be that large of a file for streaming.
Streaming solutions are clearly the future. Streaming solutions work right now. They just haven't been embraced fully because most of the media outlets are still delusionally hanging on to antiqued methods. And file size doesn't make that big of a difference in streaming capabilities. I'm currently streaming 12+GB movies in 1080p with no problems. It doesn't take an insane download speed or awesome computer specs either.

Movie files are going to continue to grow. The overwhelming majority wants better picture and better sound. Soon HD will be the only available format for streaming. Which further eliminates using an SD card. The powers that be have too much invested in cloud storage at this point, than to do anything except force people to embrace it.
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Old 10-30-2012, 05:16 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by HC_Chief View Post
Parallels, dual-boot, or simply run Windows on the Mac hardware... all valid options, but all a bit ridiculous (Parallels is pretty cool, I have to admit).

Apples are great for self-absorbed hipster kids in fake eyeglasses & skinny jeans, blogging away in coffee shops. Their market was built on Windows Vista. Perhaps Windows 8, with its radical departure from a traditional desktop experience, will give rise to a valid third option? Perhaps a more user-friendly Linux distro (Ubuntu is very user-friendly IMO, but to most non-technical people, it is still too difficult to use).



That's not a coffee shop. That's the NASA control room.

Then there's this from a retired JPL engineer:

Quote:
"People started bringing their own into work, and pretty soon a lot of other people followed. Soon they became almost standard issue at JPL, where they were popular in imaging work, especially creating large mosaics, and when OS X came out there was the added advantage of an OS that was UNIX based."
Any one of my Macs is more capable out of the box than any Windows machine out of the box because of the Unix underpinnings. It may be true that you can find someone that remembers a lot of the old DOS commands that can whip together some batch scripts in Windows, but a ton of that functionality was killed off. As I said above, PowerShell is a step in the right direction, but also seems to step back.

A few months ago I started playing with it and was overcome with glee when Powershell correctly interpreted my 'ls' command as one to list the directory contents, but then realized that I didn't know all the PowerShell ls flags so I dropped back to dir. Unfortunately 'dir' functions differently in PowerShell than it does in the typical command prompt.

So it was back to download CYGWIN and get a proper shell again.

Kind of like being a libertarian, there are two ways to get to being a Mac user. Either you want something more powerful than Windows or you want something that's more stable and easier to use than Windows. Either way, you end up using OS X.

As far as Parallels vs. VMWare, Parallels got a good head start but got quickly overtaken by VMWare once they pulled their shit together. Fusion is great and you aren't forced to look at ads while you use it.

Oh, and unlike Visual Studio you can get Xcode for *free* with OS X.
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Old 10-30-2012, 05:28 PM   #124
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Back on topic though...sounds like Ballmer is really excited to announce those blockbuster numbers from Surface and Windows 8:

Quote:
WSJ: How has the public reception been for Windows 8 and the Surface in the first few days?

Mr. Ballmer: Numerically there's not really much that's interesting to report. If you were to call the retailers, they would say, 'Hey, off to a very good start.' We're out of stock a lot of places on touch [screen] machines. I was at a dinner in San Francisco last week, and I brought out this beautiful, very thin [touch-screen] laptop, and they said, 'Wow, I never thought touch could be valuable and important in a laptop.'

WSJ: Would you prefer Apple's business model, in which it controls the hardware and the software?

Mr. Ballmer: We like our model, as we are evolving it. In every category Apple competes, it's the low-volume player, except in tablets. In the PC market, obviously the advantage of diversity has mattered since 90-something percent of PCs that get sold are Windows PCs. We'll see what winds up mattering in tablets.
Guess he hasn't heard of this iPhone thing. I hear the kids really like it.

If you find yourself a fan of what Microsoft does at all you should read this article. If you thought it was astounding that Ballmer still has a job wait until you read this. Fun part:

Quote:
SPIEGEL: Microsoft's track record at anticipating technological trends hasn't always been the best. With the Surface tablet and the new Windows 8 software you are now targeting the mobile market in particular. Is it 10 years too late once again?

Mundie: My response is that we had a music player before the iPod. We had a touch device before the iPad. And we were leading in the mobile phone space. So, it wasn't for a lack of vision or technological foresight that we lost our leadership position. The problem was that we just didn't give enough reinforcement to those products at the time that we were leading. Unfortunately, the company had some executional missteps, which occurred right at the time when Apple launched the iPhone. With that, we appeared to drop a generation behind.

SPIEGEL: What happened?

Mundie: During that time, Windows went through a difficult period where we had to shift a huge amount of our focus to security engineering. The criminal activity in cyberspace was growing dramatically ten years ago, and Microsoft was basically the only company that had enough volume for it to be a target. In part because of that, Windows Vista took a long time to be born.
Now I can understand towing the company line and all. But here's the biggest shock. Let's take as read the idea that in each instance of non-PC type computers Microsoft was there first and in each instance had their lunch eaten first by Apple with the iPod, RIM with the Blackberry and Apple with the iPad.

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This is my 20th year at Microsoft. Bill Gates and Nathan Myhrvold hired me to develop the company's capability in non-PC computing.
How does this asshole still have a job? Scott Forstall gets canned because iOS 6 maps is sub-par while this guy totally misses the boat on what is allegedly his entire job over and over and still gets paid? WTF?
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Old 10-30-2012, 07:12 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by DaveNull View Post


That's not a coffee shop. That's the NASA control room.

Oh, and unlike Visual Studio you can get Xcode for *free* with OS X.
Heh, NASA, HUGE Microsoft shop for both software and services. Same with DoD. Pretty much the entire government, really...same as the private sector. Sure, the Macs are popping up in ones, twos, threes...they are great consumer products; they just can't get much traction in the real world, where work gets done. In every single BYOD initiative you will hear the same question: "how do I make a consumer device useful in the workplace?" Followed immediately by "how the hell do we control/manage these devices?". That is, of course, if your security group will allow the devices in the building.

Xcode? WTF is that? I can get Eclipse for free too...not much use if you're writing .NET; most shops that write .NET have an ELA, meaning they will have the appropriate IDE for the job. With the "free" software you can hack your way through it, if you are lucky enough to have someone who knows how to do that, but why bother? You will end up spending more money on the effort in man hours. Same old story: save a few dollars in licenses, spend ten times as much in fumbling through defining a process to make up for not correctly investing your software budget.
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Old 10-30-2012, 08:01 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by htismaqe View Post
Because it runs all the shit they already run. That's the pitch, right there.

Great new features? Maybe. But it runs Office!
That is exactly the selling point: combining the form factor, consumer capability, and laptop/pc functionality into a single device.

The iPad is a great consumer device; it was revolutionary, but really no more than a high-tech toy. The potential is absolutely there; problem is Apple has their ecosystem completely locked down. While this is a boon for them in the short term, Microsoft's bet it is a long-term bust. If the Surface can combine the form factor with the functionality of the laptop, why continue screwing around with Apple's consumer product?
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Old 10-30-2012, 09:56 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by HC_Chief View Post
That is exactly the selling point: combining the form factor, consumer capability, and laptop/pc functionality into a single device.
That's just the thing - at a price point of over $1000, it has ZERO "consumer" capability.

My customer literally said they don't care how much it costs, it runs Windows and Office and that's what they need.

Microsoft is the RJ Reynolds of the 21st century.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HC_Chief View Post
The iPad is a great consumer device; it was revolutionary, but really no more than a high-tech toy. The potential is absolutely there; problem is Apple has their ecosystem completely locked down. While this is a boon for them in the short term, Microsoft's bet it is a long-term bust.
Microsoft envies Apple's locked down ecosystem. They're actively trying to emulate it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HC_Chief View Post
If the Surface can combine the form factor with the functionality of the laptop, why continue screwing around with Apple's consumer product?
Because Apple's consumer product has a consumer price point. The Surface, right now, does not.
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Old 10-31-2012, 12:01 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by KC Fish View Post
Streaming solutions are clearly the future. Streaming solutions work right now. They just haven't been embraced fully because most of the media outlets are still delusionally hanging on to antiqued methods. And file size doesn't make that big of a difference in streaming capabilities. I'm currently streaming 12+GB movies in 1080p with no problems. It doesn't take an insane download speed or awesome computer specs either.

Movie files are going to continue to grow. The overwhelming majority wants better picture and better sound. Soon HD will be the only available format for streaming. Which further eliminates using an SD card. The powers that be have too much invested in cloud storage at this point, than to do anything except force people to embrace it.
Never said it wasn't the future. Its not the streaming that bothers me either. Its the bandwidth it uses. I can barely stream HD now. I can do Vudu HD barely and not HDX at all. I don't like seeing chunks of my monthly bandwidth getting eaten up by movies either. Especially with the rising costs of internet options.

What is really annoying is webpages keep evolving to utilize higher bandwidth so you can't even stay on slower connections anymore.
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Old 10-31-2012, 06:55 AM   #129
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If the Surface can combine the form factor with the functionality of the laptop, why continue screwing around with Apple's consumer product?
Probably because the ability to run Office and Windows isn't the main selling point. People like iOS because its *not* Windows. Unless you're a mid-level IT manager who hates that someone would question the selection of tools that they're mandated to use.

Quote:
Xcode? WTF is that? I can get Eclipse for free too...not much use if you're writing .NET; most shops that write .NET have an ELA, meaning they will have the appropriate IDE for the job. With the "free" software you can hack your way through it, if you are lucky enough to have someone who knows how to do that, but why bother? You will end up spending more money on the effort in man hours. Same old story: save a few dollars in licenses, spend ten times as much in fumbling through defining a process to make up for not correctly investing your software budget.
You've completely missed my point...or proved it...I can't exactly tell through the fog of your ignorance of how development outside the windows enterprise world works.

The toolkit that you need to develop native OS X and iOS applications is free...no ELA needed. It's also a big reason why there is more innovative software being written for OS X and iOS at this point, unless you're talking about server side stuff.
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Old 10-31-2012, 07:13 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by Guru View Post
Never said it wasn't the future. Its not the streaming that bothers me either. Its the bandwidth it uses. I can barely stream HD now. I can do Vudu HD barely and not HDX at all. I don't like seeing chunks of my monthly bandwidth getting eaten up by movies either. Especially with the rising costs of internet options.

What is really annoying is webpages keep evolving to utilize higher bandwidth so you can't even stay on slower connections anymore.
Ahh... I forgot that you count GBs like most people count calories. That would explain things.

I'm pretty much at the opposite end of the spectrum. Sometimes I use 100-140GB of bandwidth a month.
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Old 10-31-2012, 08:46 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by DaveNull View Post
Probably because the ability to run Office and Windows isn't the main selling point. People like iOS because its *not* Windows. Unless you're a mid-level IT manager who hates that someone would question the selection of tools that they're mandated to use.
Welcome to the business world.
BYOD is starting to grow, but it is slow in adoption. Surface is hitting at the right time...a device that can truly bridge the gap (Pro). The RT is just a commercial device, like the current tablet techsphere.

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Originally Posted by DaveNull View Post
You've completely missed my point...or proved it...I can't exactly tell through the fog of your ignorance of how development outside the windows enterprise world works.

The toolkit that you need to develop native OS X and iOS applications is free...no ELA needed. It's also a big reason why there is more innovative software being written for OS X and iOS at this point, unless you're talking about server side stuff.
You just reiterated my point. If you want to write code for commercial use on a locked ecosystem with severely limited integration in the business world, use the appropriate IDE. As for "more innovative", hehe, I disagree. Unless, of course, style over substance = "innovation"? That brings me back to my statement about self-absorbed hipster kids solipsisticly blogging away in coffee shops about how they're going to change the world...
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Old 10-31-2012, 09:33 AM   #132
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Welcome to the business world.
BYOD is starting to grow, but it is slow in adoption. Surface is hitting at the right time...a device that can truly bridge the gap (Pro). The RT is just a commercial device, like the current tablet techsphere.



You just reiterated my point. If you want to write code for commercial use on a locked ecosystem with severely limited integration in the business world, use the appropriate IDE. As for "more innovative", hehe, I disagree. Unless, of course, style over substance = "innovation"? That brings me back to my statement about self-absorbed hipster kids solipsisticly blogging away in coffee shops about how they're going to change the world...
The ecosystem is changing fast. Over the last 5 years, all the upper level techs in my department have switched to Macs for their main system. Mainly because the majority of the executives at the top have switched to Mac. Supporting both PC and Mac is a requirement now, not a luxury. The Macs run OS X and Windows both, and that versatility makes them much more useful and worth the additional price.

It's so far from the self-absorbed hipster image you have in your mind, that it makes you look a little out of touch. I've introduced hundreds of iPads into our ecosystem over the last few years. And not to snobby hipsters, but shiny suit executives. If you completely shun Apple these days, you're going to significantly limit yourself in the IT field.
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Old 10-31-2012, 10:06 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by KC Fish View Post
It's so far from the self-absorbed hipster image you have in your mind, that it makes you look a little out of touch. I've introduced hundreds of iPads into our ecosystem over the last few years. And not to snobby hipsters, but shiny suit executives. If you completely shun Apple these days, you're going to significantly limit yourself in the IT field.
I'm not in IT, and these were my exact thoughts. Do people really still think that only yuppie starbucks drinkers are rocking macs? That's kind of silly.
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Old 10-31-2012, 10:25 AM   #134
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I'm not in IT, and these were my exact thoughts. Do people really still think that only yuppie starbucks drinkers are rocking macs? That's kind of silly.
I am in IT. I completely hate apple as an enterprise solution. I find that it fights everything that we try and do. It's use it their way or not at all, which to me is the bonus of Windows, the versatility.

We have introduced 300+ New iPads 8 months ago. About 1/5 of our teachers have found a viable use for them other than a digital picture frame.

As a school, we want to go to a 1:1 next year for our students. There was a lot of desire to have iPads be that device. But there is just no way that it will work. It is so inconvenient to do anything of meaningful production on an iPad, it's not even funny.


With all that being said, while I will never support the idea of Apple in an enterprise setting, I will support the devices. To do otherwise is career suicide for IT. Like it or not, Apple is becoming more prevelant.
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Old 10-31-2012, 10:51 AM   #135
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It was initially difficult to implement OS X and iOS into our previously Windows only environment. We do everything on Exchange and Active Directory. But once it's set up it works very well. All of our Macs now authenticate to AD for login. I have scripts configured that automatically mount network shares depending on login name and location. We can image new machines, install software, and diagnose Mac machines all from a network boot. DeployStudio is awesome for this.

And if you're having trouble standardizing your enterprise iPads, definitely look into the Apple Configurator app. It will save you hours and hours of configuration, and let you keep all your iPads standardized and under your control. Don't just hand your users a fresh iPad and expect them to start being productive with them. That doesn't work at all in my experience. The large majority of users have completely unrealistic expectations and very little experience with getting any productivity out of an iPad. We've implemented a iPad Productivity program for new iPad users, which has worked wonders. It's been clear that users need to be shown how to use them correctly, before you introduce them to the user base.

The problem we've run into, is that many of the people requesting and using work funds to buy iPads, don't want to use them for anything except being a $500 web browser and e-mail portal. Which is a waste of funds.
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