Creation Seminar 1 - Kent Hovind - Age of the Earth

[KILLER_CLOWN]

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by cdcox

Pretty much with you here. My church body teaches (not the basis of a typical Sunday sermon, but still the official doctrine of the church) a literal 7 day creation. Try as I might, I can't reconcile any theological system that starts from a 7-day creation with science. But you start tugging on that thread and pretty soon the whole tapestry comes unraveled leaving a giant pile of thread at your feet. It always ends up undermining my whole Christian faith. The liberal mainline bodies end up throwing so much stuff out, that there is no God remaining, while the Roman Catholics introduce too many beliefs that aren't biblical or practiced in the early church, leaving me with no spiritual home of similar believers. It's been a life long struggle for me.

I respectfully disagree with this point. That is a common misconception.

On the creation side of things... Catholic Church doesn't believe in a literal creation story. They also have no problem with evolution.

AND they're pretty liberal on unmarried sex(with little boys)








Hey, I was an altar boy, I can make that joke!

[ClevelandBronco]

Originally Posted by cdcox

Pretty much with you here. My church body teaches (not the basis of a typical Sunday sermon, but still the official doctrine of the church) a literal 7 day creation. Try as I might, I can't reconcile any theological system that starts from a 7-day creation with science. But you start tugging on that thread and pretty soon the whole tapestry comes unraveled leaving a giant pile of thread at your feet. It always ends up undermining my whole Christian faith. The liberal mainline bodies end up throwing so much stuff out, that there is no God remaining, while the Roman Catholics introduce too many beliefs that aren't biblical or practiced in the early church, leaving me with no spiritual home of similar believers. It's been a life long struggle for me.

I understand that a shifting foundation can jeopardize the integrity of the entire structure, but I just don't believe that those stories are foundational to my faith. My faith has much more to do with the miracles that I have witnessed in my life and in the lives of people I love than they have to do with a long line of people whose names are difficult to spell.

[WoodDraw]

Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco

I understand that a shifting foundation can jeopardize the integrity of the entire structure, but I just don't believe that those stories are foundational to my faith. My faith has much more to do with the miracles that I have witnessed in my life and in the lives of people I love than they have to do with a long line of people whose names are difficult to spell.

If it isn't too personal, what miracles?

[Pitt Gorilla]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

I respectfully disagree with this point. That is a common misconception.

On the creation side of things... Catholic Church doesn't believe in a literal creation story. They also have no problem with evolution.

AND they're pretty liberal on unmarried sex(with little boys)








Hey, I was an altar boy, I can make that joke!

AND Catholics created Islam! (according to Kent Hovind)

[cdcox]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

I respectfully disagree with this point. That is a common misconception.

On the creation side of things... Catholic Church doesn't believe in a literal creation story. They also have no problem with evolution.

AND they're pretty liberal on unmarried sex(with little boys)







Hey, I was an altar boy, I can make that joke!

I like Catholicism's ritural and history. As a life-long Lutheran there are too many points of deep theological disagreement for me to work through in this life time.

[nstygma]

Originally Posted by cdcox

Try as I might, I can't reconcile any theological system that starts from a 7-day creation with science.

since that story is from God's perspective, isn't it possible that his experience of time is different? for instance, with time dilation or things similar, couldn't a day for a being like God ("who is light"), actually be many millions of years from our perspective? could God speak a word, and instantly something appears. yet, to distant observers, that instant was a long span of time?

[cdcox]

Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco

I understand that a shifting foundation can jeopardize the integrity of the entire structure, but I just don't believe that those stories are foundational to my faith. My faith has much more to do with the miracles that I have witnessed in my life and in the lives of people I love than they have to do with a long line of people whose names are difficult to spell.

My spirituality doesn't stem from my prayer life or improbable things I see in my own life that others have no problem calling miracles. Maybe that is my short coming owing to overvaluing rational thought and science. I need a God that comes to me outside of my day to day experiences. The church, sacraments and word of God have provided that for me for long stretches of my life, but the origin story always ends up undermining things, mainly due to the intertwined nature of original sin and origins of creation.

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by nstygma

since that story is from God's perspective, isn't it possible that his experience of time is different? for instance, with time dilation or things similar, couldn't a day for a being like God ("who is light"), actually be many millions of years from our perspective? could God speak a word, and instantly something appears. yet, to distant observers, that instant was a long span of time?

I doubt he is arguing that aspect. He is talking about the belief that it happened in 7 days literally. At least that is the way I understand his comments.

[nstygma]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

I doubt he is arguing that aspect. He is talking about the belief that it happened in 7 days literally. At least that is the way I understand his comments.

what is the bible's definition of 7 days? 7 earth days? 7 god days?

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by nstygma

what is the bible's definition of 7 days? 7 earth days? 7 god days?

That's kind of the point. Catholicism believes it to be allegorical. If you don't believe that, then you believe it happened in 7 rotations of the Earth, literally.

[KILLER_CLOWN]

Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla

AND Catholics created Islam! (according to Kent Hovind)

[KILLER_CLOWN]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

That's kind of the point. Catholicism believes it to be allegorical. If you don't believe that, then you believe it happened in 7 rotations of the Earth, literally.

Not everything in the bible is Literal.

[cdcox]

Originally Posted by nstygma

since that story is from God's perspective, isn't it possible that his experience of time is different? for instance, with time dilation or things similar, couldn't a day for a being like God ("who is light"), actually be many millions of years from our perspective? could God speak a word, and instantly something appears. yet, to distant observers, that instant was a long span of time?

Speaking from the POV of a believer, God meant his word to be for us so that pretty much throws out the idea that it would be from God's POV instead of ours.

Scholars whom I have read always leave little room for the interpretation of the Hebrew word for "day" in the creation accounts other than to mean a 24 hour day. In other words, if you look at the Hebrew word for "day" used in Genesis, it always means our day wherever it is used in other Hebrew texts from the time period. There are other Hebrew words for "day" that have looser interpretations, but those words aren't used in the creation accounts.

[KILLER_CLOWN]

God isn't bound by time, GOD created time.

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by KILLER_CLOWN

Oh dear god... he teaches college classes??? oh wow. This guy is dangerously stupid.

He also gets the Ten Commandments dead wrong. The Catholics didn't "drop one".. they combined the first few and split the last. It's all still in there. He acts as if they were numbered to begin with. There are 17 or 18 lines that are parsed down to 10 commandments... I guess because people thought 10 was cooler then 17. It's not, but whatever.