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Old 07-20-2012, 09:50 AM  
notorious notorious is offline
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Gun Control

We have all heard about what happened in Aurora, Co, and I think that Gun Control is going to be a huge topic in the following months.


What measures need to be taken? Do you have any ideas that will help prevent this kind of thing from happening again as it pertains to guns?
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:07 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
I get that. But in listo's post he believes stricter gun laws for criminals would put restraints on law abiding citizens, which is what I didn't get.
...because criminals are substantially less likely to follow gun laws than law abiding gun owners intending to use them in a responsible way.
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:08 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Iowanian View Post
A couple of years ago, I tried to buy a shotgun for turkey hunting from the Cabela's in KC. I was not allowed to do so.
Why were you not able to do so?
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:08 PM   #108
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WE don't need more gun laws.
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:09 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
There's nothing in the 2nd amendment that says it should not apply to criminals. There's nothing else in the Constitution that says convicted criminals lose their 2nd amendment rights. I don't know what part of the Constitution you're citing when you make that argument.

Basically, you're arguing that certain regulations are acceptable because the public good outweighs the unadulterated right to arms.
No, I'm not arguing that. I'm doing the opposite of that. I'm saying I wouldn't fight against criminals not being allowed to buy guns legally. I don't give a shit about it, because I'm not a criminal.

Now, how about you answer the question.
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:11 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
How about you give an example of a stricter gun law that ONLY affects criminals, and not law abiding citizens?
How about, if you are a convicted felon, you can't buy a gun at a gun show?
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:11 PM   #111
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Do we have the 2nd admendment in place to protect our rights to go hunting or is it supposed to be in place to ensure we keep our government under control?

Or both?

I always think of the issue like this when anyone describes how I should be limited with my gun purchases. If I'm strictly a hunter then maybe my own defined requirements would be satisfied with guns that "gun control" folks prescribe, but if my reason is to keep my government in line...maybe not?

BTW, never owned a gun. Don't really plan to either. I just like to read what others think.
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:11 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
There's nothing in the 2nd amendment that says it should not apply to criminals. There's nothing else in the Constitution that says convicted criminals lose their 2nd amendment rights. I don't know what part of the Constitution you're citing when you make that argument.

Basically, you're arguing that certain regulations are acceptable because the public good outweighs the unadulterated right to arms.
It doesn't have to be specifically in the second amendment if it is upheld by common law and the supreme court. Committing a crime , being arrested& convicted of a crime means you forfeit your rights (freedom...etc..) and always has.
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:12 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
Why were you not able to do so?
I was an out of state resident.




I used this example with a local community considering tougher laws this year(restricting CCW on any city owned property, which includes streets).

One of the arguments was that the council and mayor were in danger of being shot. My argument was that if it were indeed THAT dangerous to be in that city hall, what more appropriate location as a citizen would there be for me to be armed, to defend my own life and those around me?

My 2nd argument was if someone is so angry with the city officials that they were coming to a meeting full of people(or a theater full of batman fans) is that person going to be discouraged from doing it because of the ghostbuster no-guns policy sign on the door?

If I'm a criminal with intent to commit a felony....do you really think an additonal misdimeanor is going to stop them? no, it's not.

Chicago and DC have pretty tough gun laws, and lots of people get shot there.



The 2nd amendment is as much to allow the citizenship to defend themselves from a tyranical government. Any of those conflicts in the world today? Any circumstances where an armed society would be better off being able to defend themselves?
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:13 PM   #114
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How are those restrictive gun laws working out in places like Chicago and Washington DC?

Like many have said, restrictive laws will only affect the law abiding gun owners. Criminals don't give a shit about gun laws, or any other law for that matter.
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:13 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inspector View Post
Do we have the 2nd admendment in place to protect our rights to go hunting or is it supposed to be in place to ensure we keep our government under control?
The second amendment is there specifically to keep the government in check. (It even states the purpose is to have a well regulated militia).
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:16 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
The second amendment is there specifically to keep the government in check. (It even states the purpose is to have a well regulated militia).
Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

Thanks.
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:17 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Iowanian View Post
If you're making the penalties for existing crimes tougher....fine.
If you're putting additional restrictions on the good guys, no way.
I am not trying to troll, just understand, so bare with me. If you are not a criminal, and a law only applies to a criminal, how does that restrict you as a law abiding citizen?

This is the best analogy I can come up with at the moment to help illustrate my question. We have 18 and older laws to buy tobacco. Underage people will still get the tobacco of course. But if you are over 18, that law doesn't affect you, therefore that restriction has no meaning to you. Likewise, if you aren't a criminal, that law for criminals wouldn't affect you. I guess what I am saying is that if you go to purchase a gun and aren't a criminal, all potential laws associated with being a criminal will not come into play. Does that make sense? Or am I seeing things wrong?
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:18 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
I am not trying to troll, just understand, so bare with me. If you are not a criminal, and a law only applies to a criminal, how does that restrict you as a law abiding citizen?

This is the best analogy I can come up with at the moment to help illustrate my question. We have 18 and older laws to buy tobacco. Underage people will still get the tobacco of course. But if you are over 18, that law doesn't affect you, therefore that restriction has no meaning to you. Likewise, if you aren't a criminal, that law for criminals wouldn't affect you. I guess what I am saying is that if you go to purchase a gun and aren't a criminal, all potential laws associated with being a criminal will not come into play. Does that make sense? Or am I seeing things wrong?
If I have to undergo a background check/waiting period to buy my weapon, am I not affected?
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:18 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
I am not trying to troll, just understand, so bare with me. If you are not a criminal, and a law only applies to a criminal, how does that restrict you as a law abiding citizen?

This is the best analogy I can come up with at the moment to help illustrate my question. We have 18 and older laws to buy tobacco. Underage people will still get the tobacco of course. But if you are over 18, that law doesn't affect you, therefore that restriction has no meaning to you. Likewise, if you aren't a criminal, that law for criminals wouldn't affect you. I guess what I am saying is that if you go to purchase a gun and aren't a criminal, all potential laws associated with being a criminal will not come into play. Does that make sense? Or am I seeing things wrong?

...because criminals are substantially less likely to follow gun laws than law abiding gun owners intending to use them in a responsible way.
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:19 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
How about, if you are a convicted felon, you can't buy a gun at a gun show?
That's already illegal...

http://savannahnow.com/latest-news/2...w#.UAm8GzFSRsg

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/...t_gun_for.html
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