Home Mail MemberMap Chat (0) Wallpapers
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > The Lounge > D.C.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-28-2012, 06:21 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is online now
Black for Palestine
 
Direckshun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springpatch
Casino cash: $1203060
Please, god: the housing market may be starting to recover.

Took us long enough. Jesus.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/28/bu...-way.html?_r=2

After Years of False Hopes, Signs of a Turn in Housing
By BINYAMIN APPELBAUM
Published: June 27, 2012

WASHINGTON — Announcements of a housing recovery have become a wrongheaded rite of summer, but after several years of false hopes, evidence is accumulating that the optimists may finally be right.

The housing market is starting to recover. Prices are rising. Sales are increasing. Home builders are clearing lots and raising frames.

Joe Niece, a real estate agent in the Minneapolis suburb of Eden Prairie, said he recently concluded a streak of 13 consecutive bidding wars over homes that his clients wanted to buy. Each sold above the asking price.

“I just had a home that wasn’t supposed to go on the market for two weeks sold before it even went on the market,” Mr. Niece said. “It’s definitely a lot different than what we saw” during the last few summers.

Like the economic recovery that began three years ago, what happens next is likely to prove a little disappointing. The pace of recovery will probably be slow, and the prices of many homes will continue to decline.

Millions of people remain underwater, owing more on their homes than the homes are worth, and unable to sell. Millions of families still face foreclosure. And a setback in the still-fragile economic recovery could easily reverse the uptick in housing prices, too.

But roughly six years after the housing market began its longest and deepest slide since the Great Depression, a growing number of experts and people who actually put money into housing believe the end has come.

“Our sense is that the market is recovering, and we’re extremely confident that it’s not going to get worse,” said Ronnie Morgan, a San Diego real estate professional who recently created a $10 million partnership to buy foreclosed homes. The group, Alegria Real Estate Funds, already has bought about 20 homes in suburban communities, most of which they plan to hold as rental properties.

“It feels very much like we’ve hit a bottom and we’re starting to come off of that bottom,” said Stuart Miller, chief executive of Lennar, a major national home builder based in Miami. The company said Wednesday that second-quarter profits were higher than expected, and orders for new homes rose 40 percent.

“I’m a little nervous,” Mr. Miller quickly added in a conference call with analysts, “about saying the word ‘recovery.’ ”

The trend is clear in the data. The widely respected S.&P./Case-Shiller index reported earlier this week that sales prices for existing homes rose in April for the first time this year. Several other measures, including a seasonally adjusted version of the index, show that price increases began in February. The pace of housing construction has increased. And the National Association of Realtors said Wednesday that pending home sales climbed to the highest level since the end of a federal tax credit for first-time buyers in September 2010.

This is the fourth consecutive year that the housing market has shown signs of revival, and each previous episode ended with prices renewing their downward slide.

But with each passing year, an eventual recovery has grown more likely. Prices have continued to fall, and the economy has continued to recover, a combination that has expanded the pool of potential buyers. The population has continued to grow while few new homes have been built.

Basic indicators of market health that bulged during the bubble, like the ratio of housing prices to income, have returned to more normal levels.

Government efforts to help homeowners have intensified, allowing more borrowers to refinance or avoid foreclosure.

“All bets are off if anything happens to the economy, but apart from that, I think the fundamentals look better than they’ve looked in 17 or 18 years,” said Richard K. Green, a professor of real estate at the University of Southern California.

Professor Green cited the combination of rising rents and low mortgage rates as a powerful inducement to potential buyers, both renters who would prefer to own and investors who want to become landlords.

“Compared to a lot of other investments right now this looks pretty good,” he said.

The influx of investors is a major reason that the market is looking stronger. Mr. Morgan, 56, built apartments before the housing crash. In 2010, seeing a new opportunity, he and some friends started bidding at the foreclosure auctions then held on the steps of the San Diego County Courthouse.

At first they bought properties to renovate and resell. Now they are focused on potential rental properties in the kinds of gated, planned communities in suburban San Diego that once were populated almost exclusively by people who owned their homes. Some of their tenants are former homeowners.

And competition has increased. The auctions were moved from the courthouse steps last year because the crowds had grown too large.

“There’s not a whole lot of other places to put your money,” Mr. Morgan said.

There are still reasons for caution. An unusually warm winter seems to have given a temporary and misleading boost to a range of economic indicators.

The pace of economic growth remains slow and fragile, shadowed by the risk that politicians in Europe and Washington will fail to address looming problems.

And the rise in prices is happening despite the vast number of vacant houses awaiting buyers, up to two million more than the normal level, with several million more houses still at risk of being foreclosed.

But this “shadow inventory” is not distributed uniformly, according to a new analysis by Goldman Sachs. Even within metropolitan areas like Phoenix, the vacant houses are clustered in less desirable neighborhoods, while buyers are seeking homes in areas where there are few vacancies.

Under these circumstances, the researchers concluded, “It is possible for us to see both house price increases and excess housing supply at the same time.”

Indeed, in a growing number of areas demand for homes is outstripping supply.

The number of homes for sale has been falling for more than a year, according to the National Association of Realtors. Some owners are waiting for prices to rise; some of them must wait because they are underwater.

Mr. Niece, the Minnesota real estate agent, said he and his partner had seen their book of listings decline from about 120 properties to 70 properties, about 45 of which already are under contract.

“I have buyers every single day complaining that they can’t find houses,” he said.

Driving through a neighboring suburb last week, Mr. Niece said that he passed a sign outside another real estate office that read, “The market is great. We’ve sold all of our inventory. We need listings.”
Posts: 43,004
Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2012, 10:34 PM   #16
Brock Brock is offline
Do it.
 
Brock's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Larryville
Casino cash: $160873
Did we not learn Cramer is a dishonest dipshit?
Posts: 42,720
Brock is obviously part of the inner Circle.Brock is obviously part of the inner Circle.Brock is obviously part of the inner Circle.Brock is obviously part of the inner Circle.Brock is obviously part of the inner Circle.Brock is obviously part of the inner Circle.Brock is obviously part of the inner Circle.Brock is obviously part of the inner Circle.Brock is obviously part of the inner Circle.Brock is obviously part of the inner Circle.Brock is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2012, 10:45 PM   #17
alnorth alnorth is online now
MVP
 
alnorth's Avatar
 
Moon Lander Champion Skeet Shoot Champion
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Iowania
Casino cash: $12389802
As the article hints at, we've had false alarms before. Lets wait until prices continue to climb through August before we uncork the champagne.
__________________
<WarMoose> Think about how stupid the average person is. Now realize that half of them are dumber than that.
<Chunda> Why half?
Posts: 24,329
alnorth 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.alnorth 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.alnorth 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.alnorth 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.alnorth 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.alnorth 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.alnorth 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.alnorth 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.alnorth 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.alnorth 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.alnorth 's phone was tapped by Scott Pioli.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2012, 10:51 PM   #18
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is online now
Debunking your bullshit
 
cosmo20002's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: KC area
Casino cash: $117451
Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Cramer had an interesting take....another reason to not hire and another reason to fire...ouch.
Not sure which is less reliable--a Jim Cramer assertion or an HFC assertion.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris616 View Post
As long as Jesus Christ was the president of the US and approved of it Yes.
Posts: 15,186
cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2012, 06:21 AM   #19
jjjayb jjjayb is offline
Veteran
 
jjjayb's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Back in K.C. baby!!!!
Casino cash: $1045465
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Well, we'll see what we can do to stop that.

/ Republicans
They won't need to. Obama will find a way to screw it up all by himself.
Posts: 4,763
jjjayb would the whole thing.jjjayb would the whole thing.jjjayb would the whole thing.jjjayb would the whole thing.jjjayb would the whole thing.jjjayb would the whole thing.jjjayb would the whole thing.jjjayb would the whole thing.jjjayb would the whole thing.jjjayb would the whole thing.jjjayb would the whole thing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2012, 08:39 AM   #20
FD FD is offline
Veteran
 
FD's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Casino cash: $1012376
Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
And what was decided today that is good for small and medium sized business? The uncertainty was removed and replaced with a certainty that is anti hiring. And now we will have till November to see if this can be removed and that would be a boost.
So the problem isn't uncertainty but new regulations. Thats a fine position, I was just pointing out the problem with the 'uncertainty' canard.

BTW, if the resolution of the uncertainty is so bad for business and our economy, why didn't the stock market tank yesterday? The ruling was a surprise one.
__________________
Homer: [looking at watch] Two hours? Why'd they build this ghost town so far away?
Lisa: Because they discovered gold over there!
Homer: It's because they're stupid, that's why. That's why everybody does everything.
Posts: 3,516
FD 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliFD 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliFD 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliFD 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliFD 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliFD 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliFD 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliFD 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliFD 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliFD 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliFD 's adopt a chief was Sabby Piscitelli
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2012, 08:52 AM   #21
ChiTown ChiTown is offline
Stroking to Andy's Man Boobs
 
ChiTown's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Flatlands of Kansas
Casino cash: $9326
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Well, we'll see what we can do to stop that.

/ Republicans
__________________
Posts: 15,766
ChiTown has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.ChiTown has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.ChiTown has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.ChiTown has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.ChiTown has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.ChiTown has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.ChiTown has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.ChiTown has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.ChiTown has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.ChiTown has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.ChiTown has an IQ even higher than Frankie's.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2012, 09:02 AM   #22
LOCOChief LOCOChief is offline
True Chiefs Fan
 
LOCOChief's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bull Bay
Casino cash: $549246
Unfortunately in most areas values are not on the rise and a large number of agencies REO's are getting ready to hit the market. Most areas throughout the US are still considered "declining markets" according to residential appraisers. New construction appraisal values based on a market approach are coming in well below construction costs. Getting a residential home loan is tougher than it's been in over 20 years thanks in large part to Dodd / Frank which is only about 50% implemented, if it hits 100% we're all hamstrung.
When these waves of REO's hit and spike inventory the current numbers will be revised to something less attractive just like the employment data.
Posts: 3,076
LOCOChief Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.LOCOChief Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.LOCOChief Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.LOCOChief Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.LOCOChief Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.LOCOChief Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.LOCOChief Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.LOCOChief Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.LOCOChief Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.LOCOChief Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.LOCOChief Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2012, 09:15 AM   #23
bsp4444 bsp4444 is offline
Veteran
 
bsp4444's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: East of Lee's Summit, MO
Casino cash: $43644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iz Zat Chew View Post
I have never seen anyone with so much hate in their being. You really should find a therapist.
I guess you've never seen a post from HonestChiefsFAn?
Posts: 1,107
bsp4444 has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.bsp4444 has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.bsp4444 has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.bsp4444 has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.bsp4444 has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.bsp4444 has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.bsp4444 has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.bsp4444 has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.bsp4444 has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.bsp4444 has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.bsp4444 has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2012, 09:29 AM   #24
BIG_DADDY BIG_DADDY is offline
THE RED MENACE
 
BIG_DADDY's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: San Mateo, CA 94401
Casino cash: $62760
Get out while you can. Watch what happens when interest rates go up and they will.
__________________
Posts: 29,560
BIG_DADDY wants to die in a aids tree fire.BIG_DADDY wants to die in a aids tree fire.BIG_DADDY wants to die in a aids tree fire.BIG_DADDY wants to die in a aids tree fire.BIG_DADDY wants to die in a aids tree fire.BIG_DADDY wants to die in a aids tree fire.BIG_DADDY wants to die in a aids tree fire.BIG_DADDY wants to die in a aids tree fire.BIG_DADDY wants to die in a aids tree fire.BIG_DADDY wants to die in a aids tree fire.BIG_DADDY wants to die in a aids tree fire.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2012, 09:31 AM   #25
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
Country Santa Year Around
 
HonestChieffan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the Country in MO
Casino cash: $1255817
Inventory has to fall a long ways. Builders currently in KC area are doing ok but only in the 400k up homes. Blue Vally, some Lees Summit, some up north. But the vast majority of homes on the market are in lower than 300k range and that has to move to make a real difference.

To do that people need to be back to work and we see that is not happening. Nor will we see business climate advance till at least past the election. Toss in the increased taxes we may face with the costs associated with ObamaCare if its not overturned and the housing picture is muddy at best with not a broad recovery.
__________________
Frazod to KC Nitwit..."Hey, I saw a picture of some dumpy bitch with a horrible ****tarded giant back tattoo and couldn't help but think of you." Simple, Pure, Perfect. 7/31/2013

Dave Lane: "I have donated more money to people in my life as an atheist that most churches ever will."

Come home to Jesus Dave. Come home.
Posts: 26,820
HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2012, 09:51 AM   #26
Great Expectations Great Expectations is offline
Veteran
 
Great Expectations's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Joplin, MO
Casino cash: $79883
Quote:
Originally Posted by FD View Post
So the problem isn't uncertainty but new regulations. Thats a fine position, I was just pointing out the problem with the 'uncertainty' canard.

BTW, if the resolution of the uncertainty is so bad for business and our economy, why didn't the stock market tank yesterday? The ruling was a surprise one.
The stock market is more concerned with Europe right now. Ending Obama care would cause another boom. However some parts of the Obama care I really like. Kids should be able to stay on parents insurance, old people should be able to get cancer treatment, people that have had problems before should be able to get insurance again.
__________________
http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/signaturepics/sigpic11348_1.gif
Posts: 2,892
Great Expectations Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Great Expectations Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Great Expectations Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Great Expectations Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Great Expectations Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Great Expectations Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Great Expectations Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Great Expectations Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Great Expectations Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Great Expectations Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.Great Expectations Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2012, 09:57 AM   #27
La literatura La literatura is offline
MVP
 
La literatura's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2011
Casino cash: $50809
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG_DADDY View Post
Get out while you can. Watch what happens when interest rates go up and they will.
Do we have the necessary banking regulations in place to support low interest rates and increasing home prices? I sure hope so. Otherwise, as I understand it, interest rates need to go back up.
Posts: 7,171
La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.La literatura is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2012, 10:00 AM   #28
KC native KC native is offline
a toda madre o un desmadre
 
KC native's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Casino cash: $1058338
I doubt that we are about to start an upswing. We've been getting a floor in prices because banks "voluntarily" stopped foreclosing due to the fraud-closure issues. Well, the foreclosures are starting back up and we still have tremendous amounts of underwater home owners. We probably wonkt go much further down, but there are still too many headwinds to see real price increases.
__________________
The diameter of your knowledge is the circumference of your actions. Ras Kass

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowanian View Post
I'm just a little pussy from Iowa
Posts: 15,134
KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2012, 10:05 AM   #29
KC native KC native is offline
a toda madre o un desmadre
 
KC native's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Casino cash: $1058338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Literature View Post
Do we have the necessary banking regulations in place to support low interest rates and increasing home prices? I sure hope so. Otherwise, as I understand it, interest rates need to go back up.
Apples and oranges. Low interest rates alone aren't a problem. Low interest rates, bad regulators, and increased leverage are a problem.

Housing is mostly a supply and demand reationship. When lenders were throwing money around due to low rates, securitization, and general dumbassery that distorted that relationship.

Finally, interest rates do NOT need to go up right now. Inflation is non-existent and deflation is still a near term risk (though much less so than a few years ago).
__________________
The diameter of your knowledge is the circumference of your actions. Ras Kass

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowanian View Post
I'm just a little pussy from Iowa
Posts: 15,134
KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2012, 10:17 AM   #30
FD FD is offline
Veteran
 
FD's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Casino cash: $1012376
Some positive indicators:



__________________
Homer: [looking at watch] Two hours? Why'd they build this ghost town so far away?
Lisa: Because they discovered gold over there!
Homer: It's because they're stupid, that's why. That's why everybody does everything.
Posts: 3,516
FD 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliFD 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliFD 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliFD 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliFD 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliFD 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliFD 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliFD 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliFD 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliFD 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliFD 's adopt a chief was Sabby Piscitelli
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.