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Old 05-23-2012, 09:59 AM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Anti-bullying bill shot down in Illinois because the GOP thought it was gay.

A pathological fear of homosexuality.

Little more than that.

http://www.suntimes.com/12707687-761...omosexual.html

State Senate rejects anti-bullying bill amid conservative fears it is ‘pro-homosexual’
BY CHRISTOPHER WILLS Associated Press
May 22, 2012 4:56PM

SPRINGFIELD — A push to make Illinois schools adopt more detailed policies to prevent bullying fell short Tuesday in the state Senate amid concerns that its real purpose was to lecture students on embracing homosexuality.

The measure fell one vote short of passage, although it could get another chance in the remaining days of the legislative session.

The bill would have required anti-bullying policies to include a definition of bullying and a statement saying it was against the law. The policies would have spelled out how allegations could be submitted anonymously and how they would be investigated. Policies also would have been required to describe what could happen to students who bully others, such as counseling or community service.

Some conservatives feared the bill would be used as cover to indoctrinate students. The Illinois Family Institute lobbied for an “opt out” provision that would let students and teachers skip any lessons or events that violated their religious beliefs.

“There are some programs that are not just against bullying in general. Some of them tend to have an agenda of being pro-homosexual,” said Sen. Kyle McCarter, R-Lebanon.

The legislation would not require schools to offer programs on bullying or homosexuality, but McCarter said it would be a step toward such a mandate.

Supporters denied it would open the door to promoting a particular viewpoint on homosexuality or any other issue. They noted it specifically includes language saying the bill isn’t meant to interfere with anyone’s freedom of speech or freedom of religion.

Sen. Heather Steans, D-Chicago, said it would make no sense to include an “opt out” provision because there’s nothing specific for students to skip. The bill requires schools to adopt more detailed policies, she said, but it doesn’t require particular lessons or assemblies.

The measure needed 30 votes to pass but got only 29, with 12 senators voting “no” and 12 voting “present.” Steans said some supporters were absent, so she’s optimistic it could pass if called for another vote.
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Old 05-23-2012, 02:57 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blaise View Post
They can understand that with an opt-out provision.
On what grounds?
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Old 05-23-2012, 02:58 PM   #107
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blaise View Post
Is this science class?
I've got to admit, you are about as hard to get straight answers out of as anybody I've interacted with on this board.
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Old 05-23-2012, 02:59 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
Here.
So, you're saying this message they want to deliver, without even knowing exactly what the content would be, without knowing what the message would be, is so important that there just shouldn't be an opt-out provision for the small percentage of parents that say it's objectionable? That it's just that important that no child be allowed to miss it.
And you're the one talking about fists and noses.
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Old 05-23-2012, 03:00 PM   #109
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Why is the state legislature grandstanding on this issue in the first place? Shouldn't this be something that local schools and their school boards deal with? Are there schools in Illinois where bullying is acceptable?
Far as I understand, the bill would provide more useful information to gradeschoolers about resources they can use if they are being bullied.
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Old 05-23-2012, 03:00 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blaise View Post
So, you're saying this message they want to deliver, without even knowing exactly what the content would be, without knowing what the message would be, is so important that there just shouldn't be an opt-out provision for the small percentage of parents that say it's objectionable? That it's just that important that no child be allowed to miss it.
And you're the one talking about fists and noses.
Once again:


Quote:
The bill would have required anti-bullying policies to include a definition of bullying and a statement saying it was against the law. The policies would have spelled out how allegations could be submitted anonymously and how they would be investigated. Policies also would have been required to describe what could happen to students who bully others, such as counseling or community service.
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Old 05-23-2012, 03:02 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I've got to admit, you are about as hard to get straight answers out of as anybody I've interacted with on this board.
I don't like assisting people with their points. Make your own point.

I think it's reasonable for some parents to request that their child opt-out of some of the videos or lessons or assemblies in this matter. I don't think that would have a negative impact on the program as a whole and I question the motives of those who are vehemently opposed to an opt out.
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Old 05-23-2012, 03:03 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
Once again:
Yeah, so what? I don't get why posting one portion of the program's overall intent proves your point.
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Old 05-23-2012, 03:03 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blaise View Post
Yeah, so what? I don't get why posting one portion of the program's overall intent proves your point.
Did you read it?
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Old 05-23-2012, 03:05 PM   #114
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blaise View Post
I don't like assisting people with their points. Make your own point.

I think it's reasonable for some parents to request that their child opt-out of some of the videos or lessons or assemblies in this matter. I don't think that would have a negative impact on the program as a whole and I question the motives of those who are vehemently opposed to an opt out.
I don't really see how this changes the fact you've danced around every question I've asked you in this thread.

Nor do I see how, between the two sides, the side that isn't spouting homophobia as its core motivation is the side you're questioning.
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Old 05-23-2012, 03:13 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
Did you read it?
Yep.
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Old 05-23-2012, 03:13 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by blaise View Post
You're right. Bullying is wrong, and that's why all kids should be forced to attend this video or class or seminar, even if it's against their parent's wishes. It's just that important. Heaven forbid they allow seven or eight kids to stay in the cafeteria or classroom. Bullying would then surely run rampant.
So you agree there is a problem right? So what is your solution? I will make the assumption that, you like myself had no problems with this growing up. It is very easy for those who were well liked to shrug our shoulders on this issue. However I raised my kids to view this with disdain. To the point they had my blessing and encouragement to stand up for the weak, no matter the repercussions by the school. I was punished several times for fights because some dick was picking on a guy scared to fight. I wish all the times I found myself in the principals office I could claim it for Nobel reasons. I have posted here about my son from time to time. He is a much more honorable man than I. I can honestly say that of the times he was in trouble for fighting, he was justified. I always felt great pride in this. Unfortunately many kids do not hold those values~
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Old 05-23-2012, 03:14 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I don't really see how this changes the fact you've danced around every question I've asked you in this thread.

Nor do I see how, between the two sides, the side that isn't spouting homophobia as its core motivation is the side you're questioning.
They're not spouting homophobia as their core motivation. They're simply asking for an opt-out, which is reasonable.
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Old 05-23-2012, 03:17 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by blaise View Post
Yep.
Did you understand it?
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Old 05-23-2012, 03:19 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blaise View Post
They're not spouting homophobia as their core motivation. They're simply asking for an opt-out, which is reasonable.
They're asking for an opt-out because of their homophobia.

That's the very definition of a core motivation.

Read the OP:

Quote:
Some conservatives feared the bill would be used as cover to indoctrinate students. The Illinois Family Institute lobbied for an “opt out” provision that would let students and teachers skip any lessons or events that violated their religious beliefs.
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Old 05-23-2012, 03:21 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by RedNeckRaider View Post
So you agree there is a problem right? So what is your solution? I will make the assumption that, you like myself had no problems with this growing up. It is very easy for those who were well liked to shrug our shoulders on this issue. However I raised my kids to view this with disdain. To the point they had my blessing and encouragement to stand up for the weak, no matter the repercussions by the school. I was punished several times for fights because some dick was picking on a guy scared to fight. I wish all the times I found myself in the principals office I could claim it for Nobel reasons. I have posted here about my son from time to time. He is a much more honorable man than I. I can honestly say that of the times he was in trouble for fighting, he was justified. I always felt great pride in this. Unfortunately many kids do not hold those values~

My solution is to have the classes and programs, and allow the small percentage of kids who want to opt out of some of the content, opt out.
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