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Old 05-15-2012, 08:29 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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US to Arab Spring: **** You



http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/38eb21ee-9...#axzz1uzn9UKsN

US arms sales to Bahrain to resume
By Geoff Dyer in Washington
May 12, 2012 12:09 am

The US is to resume selling arms to Bahrain a little more than a year after a harsh crackdown on anti-government protesters and despite continued claims of human rights abuses in the Gulf kingdom, which is a key US ally.

The Obama administration said that the arms sales, which Congress has been notified about, would include upgrades for Bahrain’s defence force, but would not involve weapons that could be used against demonstrators.

The decision to restart arms sales was the result of “national security interests”, said Victoria Nuland, state department spokeswoman. It follows a visit to Washington this week by Sheikh Salman bin Hamad Al Khalifa, Bahrain’s crown prince, who met with Hillary Clinton, secretary of state, and Leon Panetta, defence secretary.

Home to the US 5th fleet, Bahrain has been a key partner of the US in the Gulf for more than 60 years and the military facilities in the country are a central plank in the Pentagon’s efforts to deter Iran.

Other US allies in the region, notably Saudi Arabia, have also put pressure on Washington to maintain its support for Bahrain’s ruling Sunni Muslim royal family, which has faced widespread unrest among the majority Shia Muslim population.

However, the administration came under heavy pressure to scale back its ties last March after Manama declared a state of emergency in response to protests following the entry of Saudi and Emirati troops. In October, $53m in planned arms sales were put on hold pending an investigation of alleged human rights abuses.

A senior state department official said that the new arms sales would help boost the country’s external defences and would include air-to-air missiles, components for F-16 fighter jets and potentially a naval frigate. However, they would not include Humvees, stun grenades or tear gas.

“We are mindful of the continued human rights issues,” said a senior official. “Right now they are at an impasse and the violence is a result of that.”

In a speech last November, Hillary Clinton reflected on the conflicts of interest thrown up by the Arab Spring, particularly in Bahrain. It was fair for people to ask “why does America promote democracy one way in some countries and another way in others?” But she said that each country in the region was different and the administration needed to weigh the risk to US forces, the potential threat from al-Qaeda and the need to keep oil supplies flowing. “It would be foolish to take a one-size-fits-all approach and barrel forward regardless of circumstances on the ground,” she said.

As tensions with Iran have escalated in recent years, the US has been keen to use arms sales to boost the military capabilities of its allies in the region, most notably the $60bn deal with Saudi Arabia which was announced in 2010.
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:40 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Why? At least Direckshun could sleep at night knowing that she didn't vote for a guy who supplied arms to freedom-loving Bahrainis.
Because democracy, including American politics, is pragmatic, not an enthroning of absolutes and idealism.
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:43 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
You're saying the same thing over and over again.

Post 46.
Sure. As long as you continue to make no sense, we'll keep going.

If both parties are going to sell arms to those you oppose (and against those you support), both should be considered unpleasant to you and neither should warrant your vote. Unless, of course, you can stomach voting for the less bitter pill which results in the same as the more bitter pill, which you can apparently do with no issue.

Or, you could vote for neither and have a completely clear personal conscious.
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:45 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Literature View Post
Because democracy, including American politics, is pragmatic, not an enthroning of absolutes and idealism.
How convenient. Would you apply the same in the case of, say, stoning homosexuals or lynching Blacks?
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:46 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Literature View Post
Because democracy, including American politics, is pragmatic, not an enthroning of absolutes and idealism.
Democracy is MOB rule.
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:46 PM   #65
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Sure. As long as you continue to make no sense.
What doesn't make sense in 46.
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:49 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
How convenient. Would you apply the same in the case of, say, stoning homosexuals or lynching Blacks?
Why not? Every issue should be placed in its context, weighed, and reviewed, with the realistic consequences of action and inaction in mind.
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:50 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
What doesn't make sense in 46.
I already told you.

It seems like Obama is part of the military industrial complex.

He is approving the sale of arms which you think will be used against the freedom-loving Bahraini resistance.

You voted for him.

You'll vote for him again.

Therefore, you are actively comlicit in their torment.

Therefore, you really shouldn't be bemoaning anything.
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:51 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Democracy is MOB rule.
Sure it is. It's that tried idea that at least half of the people are right at least half of the time.
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:51 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Literature View Post
Why not? Every issue should be placed in its context, weighed, and reviewed, with the realistic consequences of action and inaction in mind.
Awesome.
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:53 PM   #70
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
I already told you.

It seems like Obama is part of the military industrial complex.

He is approving the sale of arms which you think will be used against the freedom-loving Bahraini resistance.

You voted for him.

You'll vote for him again.

Therefore, you are actively comlicit in their torment.

Therefore, you really shouldn't be bemoaning anything.
Well you're wrong on the last point. I can bemoan whatever I damn well please because it's within my rights to do so.

I've explained how nonvoting can be complicity as well.

You just gloss over that point in 46.

Make a new argument, or let the thread fall. You keep making the same point over and over again when I deflated it like 25 posts ago.
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:54 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
I already told you.

It seems like Obama is part of the military industrial complex.

He is approving the sale of arms which you think will be used against the freedom-loving Bahraini resistance.

You voted for him.

You'll vote for him again.

Therefore, you are actively comlicit in their torment.

Therefore, you really shouldn't be bemoaning anything.
What kind of logic is this? Anyone who is actively complicit in tormenting should not complain about the tormenting? Really?
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:55 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Awesome.
Is it? Are you under the mistaken impression that you think you've made some interesting point about an acceptance of lynching blacks or stoning homosexuals?
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:57 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by Literature View Post
What kind of logic is this? Anyone who is actively complicit in tormenting should not complain about the tormenting? Really?
Yes, sure.

"Hi Jews. I really don't like this whole "shower" thing. It's makes me SO MAD! But, I brought along this Zyklon-B because I own shares in the company that makes it and if I didn't bring it, someone else would have. Hope you don't mind! GO freedom!"
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:59 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Well you're wrong on the last point. I can bemoan whatever I damn well please because it's within my rights to do so.
Sure, you CAN. You just look like a twat doing it.

It's fine if you're okay with voting for a guy who wants to supply arms to the opposition you support.

Really.
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Old 05-15-2012, 11:01 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Yes, sure.

"Hi Jews. I really don't like this whole "shower" thing. It's makes me SO MAD! But, I brought along this Zyklon-B because I own shares in the company that makes it and if I didn't bring it, someone else would have. Hope you don't mind! GO freedom!"
You earlier suggested that anyone who was a Nazi in 1938 shouldn't be bemoaning the treatment of Jews in 1938 Germany. Are you that short-sighted?
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