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Old 05-15-2012, 08:29 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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US to Arab Spring: **** You



http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/38eb21ee-9...#axzz1uzn9UKsN

US arms sales to Bahrain to resume
By Geoff Dyer in Washington
May 12, 2012 12:09 am

The US is to resume selling arms to Bahrain a little more than a year after a harsh crackdown on anti-government protesters and despite continued claims of human rights abuses in the Gulf kingdom, which is a key US ally.

The Obama administration said that the arms sales, which Congress has been notified about, would include upgrades for Bahrain’s defence force, but would not involve weapons that could be used against demonstrators.

The decision to restart arms sales was the result of “national security interests”, said Victoria Nuland, state department spokeswoman. It follows a visit to Washington this week by Sheikh Salman bin Hamad Al Khalifa, Bahrain’s crown prince, who met with Hillary Clinton, secretary of state, and Leon Panetta, defence secretary.

Home to the US 5th fleet, Bahrain has been a key partner of the US in the Gulf for more than 60 years and the military facilities in the country are a central plank in the Pentagon’s efforts to deter Iran.

Other US allies in the region, notably Saudi Arabia, have also put pressure on Washington to maintain its support for Bahrain’s ruling Sunni Muslim royal family, which has faced widespread unrest among the majority Shia Muslim population.

However, the administration came under heavy pressure to scale back its ties last March after Manama declared a state of emergency in response to protests following the entry of Saudi and Emirati troops. In October, $53m in planned arms sales were put on hold pending an investigation of alleged human rights abuses.

A senior state department official said that the new arms sales would help boost the country’s external defences and would include air-to-air missiles, components for F-16 fighter jets and potentially a naval frigate. However, they would not include Humvees, stun grenades or tear gas.

“We are mindful of the continued human rights issues,” said a senior official. “Right now they are at an impasse and the violence is a result of that.”

In a speech last November, Hillary Clinton reflected on the conflicts of interest thrown up by the Arab Spring, particularly in Bahrain. It was fair for people to ask “why does America promote democracy one way in some countries and another way in others?” But she said that each country in the region was different and the administration needed to weigh the risk to US forces, the potential threat from al-Qaeda and the need to keep oil supplies flowing. “It would be foolish to take a one-size-fits-all approach and barrel forward regardless of circumstances on the ground,” she said.

As tensions with Iran have escalated in recent years, the US has been keen to use arms sales to boost the military capabilities of its allies in the region, most notably the $60bn deal with Saudi Arabia which was announced in 2010.
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Old 05-17-2012, 12:05 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
There could be. But in Saul's case, there isn't.
Sure there are, several in fact.

I find it odd that there is no conviction you hold so deeply that it can't be overcome by finding common ground on other issues.
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Old 05-17-2012, 12:32 PM   #212
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
I don't think of them as simply innocent protesters, but D does.
I try not to paint with that broad of a brush.

There is no doubt, however, that up until the Bahraini government opened fire on the protesters, they were 100% peaceful.
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Old 05-17-2012, 12:33 PM   #213
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
Sure there are, several in fact.

I find it odd that there is no conviction you hold so deeply that it can't be overcome by finding common ground on other issues.
There are plentiful convictions that I consider deeply held. That's the problem people like myself face. It's easier for folks like yourself who simply find the pro-life candidate and pull the trigger.
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Old 05-17-2012, 12:36 PM   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I try not to paint with that broad of a brush.

There is no doubt, however, that up until the Bahraini government opened fire on the protesters, they were 100% peaceful.
eh, what's a little small arms fire between friends?

no need to get testy, my bahraini brothers...
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Old 05-17-2012, 12:47 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
There are plentiful convictions that I consider deeply held. That's the problem people like myself face. It's easier for folks like yourself who simply find the pro-life candidate and pull the trigger.
yep, trade-offs and compromise are inevitable when one's conflicting convictions must be resolved and a decision made...

it's not easy to do...
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Old 05-17-2012, 12:53 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
yep, trade-offs and compromise are inevitable when one's conflicting convictions must be resolved and a decision made...

it's not easy to do...
It's incredibly common, too. I don't know why this is all of a sudden a new development for Saul.

I'm pretty sure, based on the conversations I've had with the guy, that he's a grown man. This shouldn't be news.

Kinda weird.
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Old 05-17-2012, 12:57 PM   #217
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Sure there are, several in fact.

I find it odd that there is no conviction you hold so deeply that it can't be overcome by finding common ground on other issues.
It would sure take a lot of guts to stand up for what you "believe" in... in the anonymous silence of a voting booth. Pretty scary stuff right there.
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Old 05-17-2012, 01:16 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by qabbaan View Post
It would sure take a lot of guts to stand up for what you "believe" in... in the anonymous silence of a voting booth. Pretty scary stuff right there.
ah yes, but is it mid-air scary?
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Old 05-17-2012, 01:18 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
It's incredibly common, too. I don't know why this is all of a sudden a new development for Saul.

I'm pretty sure, based on the conversations I've had with the guy, that he's a grown man. This shouldn't be news.

Kinda weird.
It seems kind of weird to me that you either don't understand what he's saying or that you continue to pretend you don't.

What is an example of one of these deeply held convictions you have? Would you continue to support Obama with your vote if found out he was never serious about his objections to enhanced interrogation and that he actually restarted the CIA waterboarding program?
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Old 05-17-2012, 01:29 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
It seems kind of weird to me that you either don't understand what he's saying or that you continue to pretend you don't.

What is an example of one of these deeply held convictions you have? Would you continue to support Obama with your vote if he decided to reverse himself and restart the waterboarding program?
but it's not a question of whether or not i support obama, it's whether i would not vote for any candidate that supported waterboarding...

i don't know about d, but i would not let that stop me from voting for a candidate even though i am thoroughly against the practice and view it as illegal under both american and international law...

being pro-life is more of an issue for me than many other things, but it wouldn't stop me from voting for a particular candidate...

actually, i can't think of any one issue off the top of my head that would absolutely make me not vote for a candidate who supported other important issues that i care strongly about...
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Old 05-17-2012, 02:14 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
It seems kind of weird to me that you either don't understand what he's saying or that you continue to pretend you don't.
What he's said is that he's not pulling a lever for a pro-choice candidate, barring something nuts happening.

That's a one-issue voter.
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Old 05-17-2012, 04:21 PM   #222
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What he's said is that he's not pulling a lever for a pro-choice candidate, barring something nuts happening.

That's a one-issue voter.
Still wrong. At least you're consistent.
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Old 05-17-2012, 05:19 PM   #223
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Still wrong. At least you're consistent.
Mmkay.
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Old 05-17-2012, 05:21 PM   #224
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The arab spring is a bunch of bullshit and only gives groups like Al Aqaeda more power.
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Old 05-17-2012, 05:44 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by Bo's Pelini View Post
The arab spring is a bunch of bullshit and only gives groups like Al Aqaeda more power.
establishing democracy in countries formerly ruled by tyrannical despots is a good thing for us...

and you can't seriously believe the muslim brotherhood in egypt is like aq...

or maybe you can...
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