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Old 04-15-2012, 07:21 PM  
3rd&48ers 3rd&48ers is offline
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Am I a Homphobe?

We have a vote coming up on May 8 it is a vote to put in the Constitution of the state of NC That Marriage is to be between one man and one woman.

I don't care what gay people do in their bedrooms, it's none of my business but on the same token I think only a man and woman should be able to legally marry... I really don't even care if Gay people want civil unions....

I am a Conservative .... and I will be voting FOR the amendment.
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Old 04-15-2012, 08:08 PM   #46
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That actually makes me wonder: is their an objective, numerical justification for the tax breaks for couples? Or is it just a holdover of the belief that monogamous, stable, heterosexual couples make for a more productive society?
There's actually a good rationale for it, in my opinion. If you have two single people and they each make $40,000, they each go through the progressive tax rate. No taxes on the first few thousand, 15% on the next, 28% on the next, and so on. But if they're married and filing jointly, the first one would go through that tax progression and the second one's income would stack on it and pay the highest rate on the full amount. So it's not fair to not give them a break in the current system, because the break just gets them back to the same rate they'd pay if they were single.

Of course, it brings up the question of why we have joint filings anyway. If everyone just paid taxes on their own income, it wouldn't be an issue. I haven't thought through the implications on that, though, so maybe there's some reason to have people in the same family file jointly (which would then argue for gay households to do the same thing).
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Old 04-15-2012, 08:09 PM   #47
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I'm with Rainman here...

How in the **** does it affect you if two men or two women marry one another? Why do you care? I usually get the lame assed, "religion" rebuttals but I still fail to see how that has anything to do with how it effects the individual.
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Old 04-15-2012, 08:10 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain Man View Post
There's actually a good rationale for it, in my opinion. If you have two single people and they each make $40,000, they each go through the progressive tax rate. No taxes on the first few thousand, 15% on the next, 28% on the next, and so on. But if they're married and filing jointly, the first one would go through that tax progression and the second one's income would stack on it and pay the highest rate on the full amount. So it's not fair to not give them a break in the current system, because the break just gets them back to the same rate they'd pay if they were single.

Of course, it brings up the question of we have joint filings anyway. If everyone just paid taxes on their own income, it wouldn't be an issue. I haven't thought through the implications on that, though, so maybe there's some reason to have people in the same family file jointly (which would then argue for gay households to do the same thing).
Thank you for your honest, candid answer. That was exactly what I was seeking when I made the query. I had hoped that there was a quantitative reason for it.
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Old 04-15-2012, 08:10 PM   #49
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Ever study the fall of Rome? Sodom and Gomorrah? When "perversion and corruption" are made legal because the values and standards have changed for that culture that supposedly make it better but it doesn't and it usually does not end well for that society.
The fall of Rome coincided roughly with the spreading of Christianity. (Cultural values is not why the Roman empire fell).
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Old 04-15-2012, 08:10 PM   #50
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Buy sex? Have multiple spouses?
Keep going. You haven't found a limit for me yet.

Some might argue that my area of being hypocritical is drug use, which I think should be illegal since I think it creates societal problems. I'm actually starting to come around on that, though, and accept the argument that you tax it for the full amount of its cost on society and use the proceeds to pay for those costs. Of course, that would make drugs so expensive that poor people couldn't buy them, which may actually solve the problem anyway.
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Old 04-15-2012, 08:11 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewChief View Post
That actually makes me wonder: is their an objective, numerical justification for the tax breaks for couples? Or is it just a holdover of the belief that monogamous, stable, heterosexual couples make for a more productive society?
I find it hard to believe there is any viable way to measure this. There are just far too many "fuzzy" factors involved that would make this impossible to accurately quantify.
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Old 04-15-2012, 08:12 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Rain Man View Post
Keep going. You haven't found a limit for me yet.

Some might argue that my area of being hypocritical is drug use, which I think should be illegal since I think it creates societal problems. I'm actually starting to come around on that, though, and accept the argument that you tax it for the full amount of its cost on society and use the proceeds to pay for those costs. Of course, that would make drugs so expensive that poor people couldn't buy them, which may actually solve the problem anyway.
Someone that actually gets legalization
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Old 04-15-2012, 08:13 PM   #53
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What makes you feel that it's not hurting anyone else? The issue Christians, not all conservatives are Christians, feel about the gay lifestyle is that it is sin. God hates all sin, but loves the sinner. There is a great difference between the hate factor that everyone tries to put into the equation.
I'm not religious so maybe I don't understand this, but how does someone else sinning hurt you? You may not like that it hurts them, but is that an issue? Is there some religious mandate that you have to act to keep them from sinning? (That's a sincere question, because I really don't know.)
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Old 04-15-2012, 08:14 PM   #54
NewChief NewChief is offline
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I find it hard to believe there is any viable way to measure this. There are just far too many "fuzzy" factors involved that would make this impossible to accurately quantify.
Well, I just wanted to know if there's a quantitative, mathematical explanation/rationalization for it. I don't really care if it's actually correct or not.
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Old 04-15-2012, 08:14 PM   #55
Mr. Flopnuts Mr. Flopnuts is offline
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Show me a victim.
We're in total agreement. Some will say kids, but that's bullshit. That much perspective modeling from more adults would help most kids.
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Old 04-15-2012, 08:17 PM   #56
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Someone that actually gets legalization
It's taken a long time to start moving me off my stand, and I'm still not convinced, but I'm actually opening to the argument now. To be honest, this site has gone a long way toward doing that, because before this site my only image of drug users was total waste-oids who were criminals and dregs on society. I've seen here that that's apparently not true. Either that, or you drug users on the site had better hope I never meet you and find out that you really are all waste-oids.
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Old 04-15-2012, 08:17 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Rain Man View Post
Keep going. You haven't found a limit for me yet.

Some might argue that my area of being hypocritical is drug use, which I think should be illegal since I think it creates societal problems. I'm actually starting to come around on that, though, and accept the argument that you tax it for the full amount of its cost on society and use the proceeds to pay for those costs. Of course, that would make drugs so expensive that poor people couldn't buy them, which may actually solve the problem anyway.
It wouldnt. All that would do is create the same drug peddlers already out there. That's a big part of the problem. Someone will get it to them for what they can it for now.
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Old 04-15-2012, 08:18 PM   #58
3rd&48ers 3rd&48ers is offline
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So how do you people feel about people being able to marry their pets?
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Old 04-15-2012, 08:19 PM   #59
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I'm a conservative and believe in God and the fact that a union by any two people other than a man and a woman is against biblical teachings, but I still don't care. Not my place to judge and quite honestly there are bigger issues out there than if two gay persons choose to wear the ball and chain.
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Old 04-15-2012, 08:19 PM   #60
Mr. Flopnuts Mr. Flopnuts is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain Man View Post
It's taken a long time to start moving me off my stand, and I'm still not convinced, but I'm actually opening to the argument now. To be honest, this site has gone a long way toward doing that, because before this site my only image of drug users was total waste-oids who were criminals and dregs on society. I've seen here that that's apparently not true. Either that, or you drug users on the site had better hope I never meet you and find out that you really are all waste-oids.
Pot is different than most other drugs IMO.
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